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-   -   Other: Why are offer sheets frowned upon? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1318327)

Krishna 01-07-2013 10:22 PM

Why are offer sheets frowned upon?
 
Offersheets are allowed in the CBA.

GMs having a "gentleman's agreement" not to offersheet each other's players is just another word for collusion.

Exit Dose 01-07-2013 10:25 PM

With term limits they don't need to collude.

orange is better 01-07-2013 10:27 PM

i guess people view it as unfair because a team that might have boat loads more money than a lot of other teams could offer sheet a player knowing that said team wouldn't be able to match... which is what the flyers TREID to do with weber. and they showed that you can find a way to make it work, if you really want to keep said player. After nashville matched the offer for weber, it should have eliminated any ill feelings towards offer sheets. if a team really wants to keep that player, they will match it.

Jaded-Fan 01-07-2013 10:33 PM

Usually it is made to an RFA, and makes the team pay closer to UFA prices for RFA when teams expect to pay a bit less for a player who is not yet in his prime. If everyone did it I suppose it would even out and screw over the players in their prime as teams would be 'overpaying' for potential in a lot of cases. So teams basically seem to have agreed to make these pretty rare.

That said it is part of the system. If teams want it out they should have taken it out in this CBA. Which probably would have been the best solution for everyone, ironically including the players. The pie is what it is, if one player gets overpaid it comes out of another player's pay, not the owners.

Deen 01-07-2013 10:40 PM

I thought the whole Dustin Penner thing was awesome personally.

Kershaw 01-07-2013 10:40 PM

It handcuffs the other team.

New Liskeard 01-07-2013 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57269111)
Offersheets are allowed in the CBA.

GMs having a "gentleman's agreement" not to offersheet each other's players is just another word for collusion.

Artificially inflates the market for RFA's

MillarWithASave 01-07-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 57270075)
It handcuffs the other team.

Your avatar is amazing, just thought I'd point that out. :laugh:

You pretty much explained it the way I would so, that's it.

Ducks DVM 01-07-2013 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57269111)
Offersheets are allowed in the CBA.

GMs having a "gentleman's agreement" not to offersheet each other's players is just another word for collusion.

Really, it's just smart business. It prevents you from having to always keep well under the cap if you have a valued player coming up on RFA. It also helps prevent salary inflation that your own RFA will then use to demand a higher compensation. There's also the fact that you have absolutely no idea how many offer sheets are actually occurring. In a cap world, unless a team is cash strapped or you offer stupid money, the team will just match, so what's the point really? And unless the player is pissed off at the current team, there's a high likelihood that the player will just tell the team what they were offered and get a contract without having to go through all the bad blood the offer sheet will create.

Makes for a good conspiracy theory though.

Krishna 01-07-2013 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 57270075)
It handcuffs the other team.

If it hand cuffs the team, don't match it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by New Liskeard (Post 57270125)
Artificially inflates the market for RFA's

So, you're saying the GMs not giving offer sheets to the vast majority of the players is keeping the market for the RFAs down?

That would be the definition of collusion.

racerjoe 01-07-2013 10:47 PM

To me, it is more just bad business.

You have to overpay to get the guy you want, and then all you have done is raise the prices for all RFA's, plus lost draft picks. it's probably good to have them so teams can't just hold out on RFA's, but to use them more than threats to me is bad business.

TrillMike 01-07-2013 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racerjoe (Post 57270459)
To me, it is more just bad business.

You have to overpay to get the guy you want, and then all you have done is raise the prices for all RFA's, plus lost draft picks. it's probably good to have them so teams can't just hold out on RFA's, but to use them more than threats to me is bad business.

Exactly this ^.

Porn* 01-07-2013 10:53 PM

if used strategically, I'm all for it... it's in the rules, don't see a problem with it.

ThirdManIn 01-07-2013 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange is better (Post 57269345)
i guess people view it as unfair because a team that might have boat loads more money than a lot of other teams could offer sheet a player knowing that said team wouldn't be able to match... which is what the flyers TREID to do with weber. and they showed that you can find a way to make it work, if you really want to keep said player. After nashville matched the offer for weber, it should have eliminated any ill feelings towards offer sheets. if a team really wants to keep that player, they will match it.

Nashville has an ownership group made up of multi-millionaires and one billionaire. As stated by that billionaire (W. Brett Wilson), people underestimate the depths of Nashville's pockets. The reasons for staying on a budget are diminishing in Nashville. The same cannot necessarily be said about other teams who are weaker financially.

If a player is worth offer sheeting don't you think the team with that player's RFA rights would really want to keep it?

ThirdManIn 01-07-2013 11:40 PM

"If it hand cuffs the team, don't match it."

This is the same kind of reasoning that led to a salary cap, no? "If you cannot afford to spend $100m in salary, don't." That worked so well.

7even 01-07-2013 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThirdManIn (Post 57272837)
Nashville has an ownership group made up of multi-millionaires and one billionaire. As stated by that billionaire (W. Brett Wilson), people underestimate the depths of Nashville's pockets. The reasons for staying on a budget are diminishing in Nashville. The same cannot necessarily be said about other teams who are weaker financially.

If a player is worth offer sheeting don't you think the team with that player's RFA rights would really want to keep it?

OT but I'm so jealous of Nashville's ownership group. If we could've had that in Atlanta...

Mayor Bee 01-07-2013 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57269111)
Offersheets are allowed in the CBA.

GMs having a "gentleman's agreement" not to offersheet each other's players is just another word for collusion.

Look at it from the GM's perspective.

Sign a new player as an RFA. In order to get the other team not to match, he needs to go well above and beyond the going rate for players of similar caliber. And if he succeeds in doing that (possibly putting his own team in cap hell for years to come), there's still the cost of the draft picks as compensation.

It's not collusion. It's asset management.

Seth Rollins 01-07-2013 11:49 PM

It's only frowned upon by Brian Burke, and he literally frowns at everything anyway.

ThirdManIn 01-08-2013 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7even (Post 57272923)
OT but I'm so jealous of Nashville's ownership group. If we could've had that in Atlanta...

We are lucky to have them. Without these guys the team would have certainly moved. They saved the team. They survived the Boots Del Biaggio scandal. They have really strengthened the organization financially, and even added a billionaire to their ranks. After Leipold basically ran the team based on whims, they have really turned the ship around so to speak. I wish Atlanta would have been able to have the same happen for them. I really do. I know how bad it feels to think you're going to lose your team. I can't imagine how much worse it is to actually see them go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TyutinMyOwnHorn (Post 57273225)
It's only frowned upon by Brian Burke, and he literally frowns at everything anyway.

:laugh: You do have a point here.

Seriously, what evidence outside of comments from Burke could be used to prove illegal collusion? With a rate of 1 OS per year since the last CBA, would that evidence (if it exists) be strong enough to show that an agreement exists, even though that agreement is also being ignored by GMs constantly?

Wingsfan2965* 01-08-2013 12:17 AM

Because when a certain GM of a team with money offer sheets the superstar of a team without money, the team without money obviously isn't going to let go of the fact of their franchise, so their handcuffed into paying a contract that they never even negotiated.

Jaded-Fan 01-08-2013 12:35 AM

Like I said above though, are they even good for the players? I wonder that they did not go away in the current CBA. They mostly get given to young players who have not yet reached their potential on their RFA year. With the players dividing 50% of revenues all it means is that a handful of unproven young players get overpaid out of the pockets of veterans who have proven themselves and deserve the money more. Can someone tell me in a cap and shared revenue world, who these benefit and why anyone would want to keep them? Except if you are one of the small handful who win the lottery and get offered one of these. It is not like the players will end up with any less money if these went away, only the division of their half of the pie would be different.

Machinehead 01-08-2013 12:44 AM

I like to do it in NHL 13 to the GM's I have poor relations ratings with anyway :laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 57270451)
If it hand cuffs the team, don't match it.

And if it's the face of your franchise?

thadd 01-08-2013 12:48 AM

It brings a large amount of chaos to the league if everyone is always trying to steal onenother's prospects. It's only really worth doing if it's a sure thing... and if everyone keeps doing it, it just drives up the value of the younger kids. In a salary cap world, it's just crazy.

danishh 01-08-2013 03:33 AM

offersheets are frowned upon because GM's are babies and owners want to act like a cartel.

Finnish your Czech 01-08-2013 05:52 AM

I doubt that it's actual collusion, probably just tacit collusion.


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