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-   -   Proposal: How about bringing more offense? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1319271)

JayB 01-09-2013 10:58 AM

How about bringing more offense?
 
We lose Jagr and JVR in offseason, nobody come back.. I think we lose a lot of our firepower from offense. Maybe Schenn and Couts develop some points but not so much.

Our defense is weaker than last season so we are letting some more goals to our goal. Our main target have to be defender, the next leader, but offense is little concern too. Trading the defender here doest help our offense to cover Jagr and JVR points.

Wich wingers you may be targeting to Flyer offense? I have a idea to bring Cris Stewart here to play with Simmonds. With his caphit it isnt so big problem to solve putting him under cap even if we are going to bring defender too.

Is there any other options?

I'm very juicy about these lines:

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
"Chris Stewart" ($3.000m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / "P.K. Subban/Dmitry Kulikov" ($6.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,884,444; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,020,556

Jack de la Hoya 01-09-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayB (Post 57334651)
We lose Jagr and JVR in offseason, nobody come back.. I think we lose a lot of our firepower from offense. Maybe Schenn and Couts develop some points but not so much.

Our defense is weaker than last season so we are letting some more goals to our goal. Our main target have to be defender, the next leader, but offense is little concern too. Trading the defender here doest help our offense to cover Jagr and JVR points.

Wich wingers you may be targeting to Flyer offense? I have a idea to bring Cris Stewart here to play with Simmonds. With his caphit it isnt so big problem to solve putting him under cap even if we are going to bring defender too.

Is there any other options?

I'm very juicy about these lines:

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
"Chris Stewart" ($3.000m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / "P.K. Subban/Dmitry Kulikov" ($6.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,884,444; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,020,556

What are you trading to get these guys...

John Wayne Gretzky 01-09-2013 11:01 AM

How are we getting those players though? I enjoy that the lines got you all juicy though haha.

toughfighter83* 01-09-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayB (Post 57334651)
We lose Jagr and JVR in offseason, nobody come back.. I think we lose a lot of our firepower from offense. Maybe Schenn and Couts develop some points but not so much.

Our defense is weaker than last season so we are letting some more goals to our goal. Our main target have to be defender, the next leader, but offense is little concern too. Trading the defender here doest help our offense to cover Jagr and JVR points.

Wich wingers you may be targeting to Flyer offense? I have a idea to bring Cris Stewart here to play with Simmonds. With his caphit it isnt so big problem to solve putting him under cap even if we are going to bring defender too.

Is there any other options?

I'm very juicy about these lines:

My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
"Chris Stewart" ($3.000m) / Danny Briere ($6.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($1.750m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Brayden Schenn ($3.110m)
Ruslan Fedotenko ($1.750m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.544m)
Tom Sestito ($0.605m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / "P.K. Subban/Dmitry Kulikov" ($6.000m)
Braydon Coburn ($4.500m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Luke Schenn ($3.600m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Ilya Bryzgalov ($5.667m)
Michael Leighton ($0.900m)
BUYOUTS
Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $68,884,444; BONUSES: $2,705,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,020,556

i agree with you, this team needs defense and offense, this team is going nowhere with this roster, i dont know if our stubborn of a gm will even make a move, he's just as clueless as rubben is, he's really over his head.

FlyersFan61290 01-09-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57335799)
i agree with you, this team needs defense and offense, this team is going nowhere with this roster, i dont know if our stubborn of a gm will even make a move, he's just as clueless as rubben is, he's really over his head.

:laugh:

this team doesn't need to waist assets to get more offense. some big names will be coming up in UFA relatively soon and the young guys are still growing and developing there offensive game. yes the D is not good enough as is but to call Homer a clueless gm is so wrong.

Beef Invictus 01-09-2013 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57335799)
i agree with you, this team needs defense and offense, this team is going nowhere with this roster, i dont know if our stubborn of a gm will even make a move, he's just as clueless as rubben is, he's really over his head.

I have a sense that, in your eyes, this team will never go anywhere with any roster.

The Couturier Effect 01-09-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57335799)
i agree with you, this team needs defense and offense, this team is going nowhere with this roster, i dont know if our stubborn of a gm will even make a move, he's just as clueless as rubben is, he's really over his head.

How does this team need offense? They were 2nd in the league in scoring last year and didn't lose anything in the offseason that would result in a huge drop in scoring. Yeah they need some help on defense but Homer did what he could in the offseason and it didn't work out. That's hockey. If you don't like this team then please go root for another one because we're all tired of hearing you complain about everything.

achdumeingute 01-09-2013 12:42 PM

The reality is that Schenn and couturier have to replace jagr. Briere has to be better. Hartnell, Read, and simmonds had career years...they have to do at least 75% of that again. If that doesn't happen, our offense decreases.

toughfighter83* 01-09-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 (Post 57342043)
How does this team need offense? They were 2nd in the league in scoring last year and didn't lose anything in the offseason that would result in a huge drop in scoring. Yeah they need some help on defense but Homer did what he could in the offseason and it didn't work out. That's hockey. If you don't like this team then please go root for another one because we're all tired of hearing you complain about everything.

i cant understand why you are always comparing things from last season, like it's going to be carry over, when this team hasnt played in 8 months and have no clue what these players are going to do, sure they were second league in scoring but that's when they had jagr and they were new players, these are the same players and you dont think coaches in the other teams dont have a gameplan for stopping them? i wouldnt be surprised if they struggle because they are young and nothing has changed to make this team better.


it's like you are asking them to perform to your expectations, well it's not that easy if the other teams are going to have a gameplan to stop them since this team is predicable anyway unless the coach makes a change in his philosophy . im not complaining, im stating the reality of this team and you dont want to hear it that's your problem.

JDinkalage Morgoone 01-09-2013 12:54 PM

I'm extremely comfortable with this team going into the season. I mean really, losing Jagr is tough but I think Jake is more than capable of stepping in. He provides a lot more breakout speed than Jagr ever did.

Krishna 01-09-2013 12:56 PM

http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content...ut-no-bear.jpg

We need defense

toughfighter83* 01-09-2013 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone (Post 57343959)
I'm extremely comfortable with this team going into the season. I mean really, losing Jagr is tough but I think Jake is more than capable of stepping in. He provides a lot more breakout speed than Jagr ever did.

he has speed but can he shoot like jagr? most of the goals he scores is crashing the net like carter which he's not a first line player, plus jagr is bigger and can see the net more on the rush, jake doesnt have that.

sa cyred 01-09-2013 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57343775)
i cant understand why you are always comparing things from last season, like it's going to be carry over, when this team hasnt played in 8 months and have no clue what these players are going to do, sure they were second league in scoring but that's when they had jagr and they were new players, these are the same players and you dont think coaches in the other teams dont have a gameplan for stopping them? i wouldnt be surprised if they struggle because they are young and nothing has changed to make this team better.


it's like you are asking them to perform to your expectations, well it's not that easy if the other teams are going to have a gameplan to stop them since this team is predicable anyway unless the coach makes a change in his philosophy . im not complaining, im stating the reality of this team and you dont want to hear it that's your problem.

Honest question. Flyers make it to the Stanley Cup finals with this team but lose in 7 games. Do you still come out and say how horrendous the roster is?


Also, whats your solution to fixing all of this? Who should be grab? Who should be trade?

JDinkalage Morgoone 01-09-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57346029)
he has speed but can he shoot like jagr? most of the goals he scores is crashing the net like carter which he's not a first line player, plus jagr is bigger and can see the net more on the rush, jake doesnt have that.

Giroux makes a lot of room with his moves and feeds. All Jake needs to do is skate hard at the net. He might not have Jagr's moves but that's not the way he gets around people to find space.

DrHamburg 01-09-2013 01:37 PM

how many 2nd round picks would it take to get PK Subban and Chris Stewart lol

The Couturier Effect 01-09-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57343775)
i cant understand why you are always comparing things from last season, like it's going to be carry over, when this team hasnt played in 8 months and have no clue what these players are going to do, sure they were second league in scoring but that's when they had jagr and they were new players, these are the same players and you dont think coaches in the other teams dont have a gameplan for stopping them? i wouldnt be surprised if they struggle because they are young and nothing has changed to make this team better.


it's like you are asking them to perform to your expectations, well it's not that easy if the other teams are going to have a gameplan to stop them since this team is predicable anyway unless the coach makes a change in his philosophy . im not complaining, im stating the reality of this team and you dont want to hear it that's your problem.

I'm comparing things to last year because that's all there is to compare things to. Of course I'm assuming things are going to somewhat carry over. There hasn't been a major change to the offense that would lead me to believe that things would drastically change.

And of course there's going to be gameplans against us. There are always gameplans against us. You make it sound like the Flyers go into every game without knowing about the team they're playing. There's always preparation and as much as you don't like Laviolette, he is great at preparing for games and adjusting during the games. And I know you're gonna say "that didn't work against the Devils". You win some, you lose some. That's sports.

Beef Invictus 01-09-2013 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57343775)
i cant understand why you are always comparing things from last season, like it's going to be carry over, when this team hasnt played in 8 months and have no clue what these players are going to do, sure they were second league in scoring but that's when they had jagr and they were new players, these are the same players and you dont think coaches in the other teams dont have a gameplan for stopping them? i wouldnt be surprised if they struggle because they are young and nothing has changed to make this team better.


it's like you are asking them to perform to your expectations, well it's not that easy if the other teams are going to have a gameplan to stop them since this team is predicable anyway unless the coach makes a change in his philosophy . im not complaining, im stating the reality of this team and you dont want to hear it that's your problem.

The second bolded part answers the question posed in the first bolded part.

By your logic, any team that retains most of the same players from season to season will never, ever win because every team will know how to beat them. Guess what? That's not the case. Changing the whole roster every season they don't win a Cup is a great way to ensure you never win a Cup. The Flyers do just as much gameplanning as their opponents.

toughfighter83* 01-09-2013 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus (Post 57347539)
The second bolded part answers the question posed in the first bolded part.

By your logic, any team that retains most of the same players from season to season will never, ever win because every team will know how to beat them. Guess what? That's not the case. Changing the whole roster every season they don't win a Cup is a great way to ensure you never win a Cup. The Flyers do just as much gameplanning as their opponents.

if that's your logic then what was the point of upgrading the team, when the flyers had their worst record in 06-07 season? if the homer kept the same players and did nothing in that off-season, it would be the same losing trend, the main reason this team was so good for so many years was because homer and clarke upgraded the positions every year accept 06 when they lost players and didnt upgrade.

im not talking about stanley cup, im talking about success.

sa cyred 01-09-2013 02:00 PM

I hate you guys. When everyone responds he selectively picks who he will answer... he ignored my questions :(

Beef Invictus 01-09-2013 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57348675)
if that's your logic then what was the point of upgrading the team, when the flyers had their worst record in 06-07 season? if the homer kept the same players and did nothing in that off-season, it would be the same losing trend, the main reason this team was so good for so many years was because homer and clarke upgraded the positions every year accept 06 when they lost players and didnt upgrade.

im not talking about stanley cup, im talking about success.

You can't see the difference between rebuilding an awful team, and tweaking a good team? You REALLY think last year's team is the same as the 06-07 teams?

If you're talking about success and not specifically a Cup, then you're somehow ignoring the amazing amount of success the Flyers have had. We've missed the playoffs once in the last 15 years. In that same span we've been to a few ECFs and the Finals; much of the time we are only eliminated by the team that goes to the Finals or wins the Cup; the road to glory usually goes through Philly. Very few franchises have been so consistent, perhaps just NJ and Detroit.

But yeah, let's completely detonate the roster because the rebuilt, very young team last year didn't win a Cup or have enough "success."

The Couturier Effect 01-09-2013 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toughfighter83 (Post 57348675)
if that's your logic then what was the point of upgrading the team, when the flyers had their worst record in 06-07 season? if the homer kept the same players and did nothing in that off-season, it would be the same losing trend, the main reason this team was so good for so many years was because homer and clarke upgraded the positions every year accept 06 when they lost players and didnt upgrade.

im not talking about stanley cup, im talking about success.

Beating one of the best teams in the league and your hated rival in the playoffs after trading away two franchise players isn't considered a success?

EDIT: Also Homer did all he could to upgrade the team in the offseason. He can't help if Suter and Parise want to play closer to home or Nashville matching his qualifying offer.

JDinkalage Morgoone 01-09-2013 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 (Post 57349435)
Beating one of the best teams in the league and your hated rival in the playoffs after trading away two franchise players isn't considered a success?

I don't know where he's going with this one.

Flyers were 2nd in offense, beat a team that many considered the cup favorite, then lost to the eventual cup runner up. What's wrong with that?

Spongolium* 01-09-2013 02:14 PM

Personally, I think that the offense will regress this year, but not due to players leaving the team. I think lavy is going to turn this team into a more solid defensive team.

We have 6 strong defenseman, but no real superstar there. We also played our best hockey when playing tight defensive hockey last year in march.

The Couturier Effect 01-09-2013 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrokenStix (Post 57349591)
Personally, I think that the offense will regress this year, but not due to players leaving the team. I think lavy is going to turn this team into a more solid defensive team.

We have 6 strong defenseman, but no real superstar there. We also played our best hockey when playing tight defensive hockey last year in march.

I don't think this is a good idea for THIS year. Players will have less time to adjust to the new system because of the shortened training camp. I would like to see Lavy switch over eventually though. I think it would help the team.

MP92 01-09-2013 02:26 PM

People also thought this team would have a tough time scoring after Richards and Carter were shipped outta town and they ended up 2nd in the league in goals. Between Jagr and JVR, we're only missing 30 goals. Im sure B. Schenn and Couts will be able to make up for that with their expected increase in production. Im not worried about their offense a bit. The defense and goal tending on the other hand...


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