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-   -   The Kreider Thread (1/22: Kreider fine, skating at practice) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1319965)

HockeyBasedNYC 01-10-2013 12:05 AM

The Kreider Thread (1/22: Kreider fine, skating at practice)
 
Theres a a bit of a debate about whether or not to start Kreider opening night.

He hasn't had a stellar start in the AHL, and some would say that the Rangers should keep him down there to get more seasoning ala Cally, Girardi, Anisimov, (gonna miss watching him this year).

I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I feel that Kreider is one of those players that thrives off of having higher skilled players around him and a quicker pace.

Obviously, he can't **** the bed completety in camp otherwise it's an easy decision to make for Torts. But I almost feel that it's better for his development if he plays in a higher, more speed driven league to help build his great skating ability, right off the bat here.


Thoughts?

Alphaphaget 01-10-2013 12:08 AM

He's an incredibly skilled forward and we need him on the ice immediately in such an abbreviated season.

Kershaw 01-10-2013 12:10 AM

I don't think Kreider is skilled. I haven't seen the high quality display of hands from him. He is a pretty north south player. Dubinsky-lite.

SERE 24 01-10-2013 12:16 AM

Not Dubinsky-lite because he will be better than Dubinsky, most likely. But similar in style.

Kreider will make the team. He has earned a look in NHL games with his performance last season. The Whale is not a good AHL team and production in the AHL has nothing to do with production in the NHL. There are guys who score well over point per game paces in the AHL and spend their entire careers there without ever being able to crack the NHL and guys who never produced at the AHL level but are able to jump right into the NHL and succeed. I don't think Kreider's STATS in the AHL will even be looked at or considered by Torts in making his decision. Some tape of Kreider's overall PLAY might be looked at, but the stats are irrelevant. He will have different stats playing, for example, on a line with Nash and Stepan than he does in the AHL playing with non-NHLers and rookies. He will get a chance in the top six right out of the gate and his performance in the NHL is what will determine if he needs to be sent back down; nothing else.

Cresto 01-10-2013 12:18 AM

Sometimes an issue is best left to itself. There's a logical dilemma in this. On one hand, you can't judge him from the AHL season given the team he's on and the fact that he's done well at so many other levels including the playoffs last year. On the other hand, you can't say he only plays well at such and such a level. In my honest opinion, I think we will see a bit of struggle from Kreider to start the season in the NHL and through some juggling of the lines, he will slowly find his way. By the 12th game if Torts hasn't decided to demote him, he'll find his game.

Alphaphaget 01-10-2013 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 57380301)
I don't think Kreider is skilled. I haven't seen the high quality display of hands from him. He is a pretty north south player. Dubinsky-lite.

Not sure if serious. His combination of speed, shot, and strength provide for a fairly unique and gifted power forward. Scouts would laugh at the notion he isn't skilled.

HockeyBasedNYC 01-10-2013 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tortorella (Post 57380301)
I don't think Kreider is skilled. I haven't seen the high quality display of hands from him. He is a pretty north south player. Dubinsky-lite.

See that's it though, put him in a position to be that incredible North-South player while he's surrounded by guys that will make him better.

We all see how Hags speed disrupts the opposition on the forecheck and what that results in, why not utilize a skater who is in a very very small group of NHL players who can skate like that.

You can almost forget about any of the shortcomings of skill you may believe he doesn't possess.

SERE 24 01-10-2013 12:22 AM

It's absolutely expected that he will struggle and have bumps in the road. But there's almost no shot he doesn't start the season in our top-six. If we were going to trust him there in the playoffs, chasing a Cup last season, we'll give him his shot there now. The lines will obviously be shuffled constantly, but he will get ample opportunity to play wit Stepan, Richards, Nash, Gaborik, Callahan, Hagelin, etc. He might not produce heaps this season, but if he plays physical, uses his speed intelligently and just creates space on the ice, even if he's not getting his name on the scoresheet, Torts will be happy.

McMonster 01-10-2013 12:25 AM

no reason why he should not be in the lineup... in my opinion, he's already proved he can contribute at this level.

Fitzy 01-10-2013 12:27 AM

His play in the postseason for us last year is a strong argument in his favor, and I think management will give more credence to that than to his AHL performance this season.

Chris isn't going to be a dynamic goal scoring machine. But the way he plays, he can fill a role on an NHL roster right now if he is used properly. And I think he'll develop in the NHL just as he would in the AHL. Just don't expect worlds from him.

mike14 01-10-2013 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antithesis (Post 57380861)
His play in the postseason for us last year is a strong argument in his favor, and I think management will give more credence to that than to his AHL performance this season.

Chris isn't going to be a dynamic goal scoring machine. But the way he plays, he can fill a role on an NHL roster right now if he is used properly. And I think he'll develop in the NHL just as he would in the AHL. Just don't expect worlds from him.

Think this ship sailed a long time ago...

Machinehead 01-10-2013 12:33 AM

Is there really such a thing as Dubinsky-lite?

How lite can you get?

Anyway, I don't think we can afford not to have Kreider in the lineup. We don't have the left wing depth. Unless you really wanna see Rupp on the 3rd line and Mike Haley in the lineup every day.

Cresto 01-10-2013 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead (Post 57381089)
Is there really such a thing as Dubinsky-lite?

How lite can you get?

He just needs to bring roundedness to his game. He has Gaborik features and needs to learn how to make it happen.

Cresto 01-10-2013 12:37 AM

We should have traded Kreider for some 2nd round picks before the summer started guys :sarcasm:

Everyone took a dump in the Kreider bed.

Machinehead 01-10-2013 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCresty (Post 57381161)
He just needs to bring roundedness to his game. He has Gaborik features and needs to learn how to make it happen.

Who, Dubinsky? His best feature was pissing me off when he hit the post.

Cresto 01-10-2013 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead (Post 57381223)
Who, Dubinsky? His best feature was pissing me off when he hit the post.

No Kreider. What are dubie's Gaborik like features? :laugh:

Cresto 01-10-2013 12:40 AM

That was some bad connectivity and flow in quoting by me :laugh:

Draft Guru 01-10-2013 12:40 AM

Bit of a debate? What debate? The opinion that Kreider "struggled" in the AHL is so misguided. He'll be in the lineup on opening night, probably in a top 6 role at that.

Machinehead 01-10-2013 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCresty (Post 57381269)
No Kreider. What are dubie's Gaborik like features? :laugh:

Um....well, if the post counted, he'd have as many goals :laugh:

Cresto 01-10-2013 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Guru (Post 57381293)
Bit of a debate? What debate? The opinion that Kreider "struggled" in the AHL is so misguided. He'll be in the lineup on opening night, probably in a top 6 role at that.

It's kind of what I'm saying. We're sitting around a table yapping away with conjectures and projections of all sorts. He will struggle and he will succeed.

The questions are:

How long are those struggles?
How successful will he be after the struggles.

Cresto 01-10-2013 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead (Post 57381299)
Um....well, if the post counted, he'd have as many goals :laugh:

Was it him that rang it off the post 2 years ago in the dying seconds of the 3rd again the devils to fall short 2-1 in the game?

IBleedNYRBlue 01-10-2013 12:57 AM

So a guy that steps right into the postseason never seeing NHL time before then, scoring the same number of goals of our offensive star, won't make the lineup because a few months of struggle in AHL?

Oh look, maybe Kreider is the next Ranger up to get demanded to be traded by the fan base.

Machinehead 01-10-2013 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCresty (Post 57381427)
Was it him that rang it off the post 2 years ago in the dying seconds of the 3rd again the devils to fall short 2-1 in the game?

Was that the game were Joe said "That went in" and got everyone psyched for no reason? I think that was Dubi.

Cresto 01-10-2013 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinehead (Post 57382165)
Was that the game were Joe said "That went in" and got everyone psyched for no reason? I think that was Dubi.

Joe says a lot of things.

Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me?

No Joe, we are not kidding you.

eco's bones 01-10-2013 02:31 AM

He's not a finished product. Tortorella will work with him. Nights he's going well--he'll get lots of ice time. Nights he doesn't--he'll sit a lot. Part of it as well is putting him in situations and with players who can help him succeed. That's a major Torts concept.


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