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-   -   Value of: Patrik Berglund (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1321307)

AK1990 01-11-2013 09:06 PM

Patrik Berglund
 
So 1 glaring issue in Toronto is the lack of size up the middle. Patrik Berglund isn't a # 1 centre. However he has the potential to be one.

St. Louis has a lot of depth up the middle With Backes, McDonald, Steen, Sobotka, Schwartz who can be both a centre or a Winger & same with Oshie.

The reality is Toronto still has to build a core to move forward. They have glaring holes in their lineup. St. Louis is going for it all and are poised to be a contender. However, I still see them a piece or 2 away.

Here's my proposal

To St. Louis - Liles, MacArthur & 3rd in 2013
To Toronto - Berglund

Liles is very speedy and is a great offensive threat. He would be amazing feeding Pietrangelo passes all night both even strength & on PP.

Perron/Backes/Oshie
MacArthur/McDonald/Tarasenko
Schwartz/Steen/Stewart
Porter/Sobotka/D'Agostini

Liles/Pietrangelo
Jackman/Shattenkirk
Cole/Polak

Halak/Elliott

Thoughts? Willing to retool the deal but I like the idea of Berglund on Toronto. Looking forward to hear your responses!

CarvinSigX 01-11-2013 09:29 PM

Good god no. Backes and Berglund are the only centers we have, in fact, Blues fans have been wanting another center for awhile. The last thing the Blues need is another winger, especially if a center is being moved. The answer will always be no, unless you magically trade us a better center...A simple search could have shown you that this thread is done extremely often, second only to the new one...Stewart.

Vladys Gumption 01-11-2013 10:10 PM

Easy, easy no from the Blues. As has been the case in the million other Berglund to Toronto threads. Backes and Berglund are the only two centers we have with size. Mcdonald has not been a center for a long time, and Steen is much better on the wing. The only reason he is going to be playing center this year is out of necessity. Sobotka is a winger. Schwartz was drafted as, and will be a left winger. We aren't trading him for what you offered. Macarthur is useless to the Blues. We have better options. Liles is a nice piece, but not worth moving Berglund for. Oh and just fyi, you completely ignored Russell as a part of the defense.

letmesleep 01-12-2013 01:53 AM

Don't take it personally, we really just can't move Bergy without a better center coming back. You'll have to look elsewhere to fix your center problem.

Minimalist* 01-12-2013 02:02 AM

Liles, MacArthur and a 3rd? How can you turn down that package?

bluemandan 01-12-2013 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist (Post 57469381)
Liles, MacArthur and a 3rd? How can you turn down that package?

Its hard. Believe me. But the third just makes it unfair. I mean, haven't Leafs fans suffered enough? :cheers:

bluemandan 01-12-2013 03:11 AM

In seriousness, here are the bullet points on why this trade is horrible for the Blues:
  • Blues need a defensive player to pair with Pietrangelo, not a defensive liability.
  • Blues need to add a top six center, not subtract.
  • Blues don't need any wingers currently.
  • McAurthur wouldn't be a second line winger on the Blues.
  • Blues don't view McDonald, Oshie, or Schwartz as long-term NHL centers at this point in their careers. Oshie would see duty there before the other two, but only in a pinch.
  • OP is missing Langenbrunner and Nichol from Blues line-up.
  • OP is correct in Blues missing a couple of pieces, but doesn't offer to fill any of them in return for weakening the team down the middle.
  • Blues take on $5,100,000 in salary for next season.
  • Blues would still owe Liles $11,250,000 for the three seasons following this one.
  • The third round pick really offers little value, and is mostly there in an attempt to disguise this awful trade proposal.


This isn't even a Value Of post. It is a trade proposal for a decent center who still has some untapped potential that doesn't particuarlly take the Blues needs into account.

jakapono24 01-12-2013 03:27 AM

Gunnarson and Bozak, perhaps?

JustOneB4IDie 01-12-2013 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemandan (Post 57470013)
In seriousness, here are the bullet points on why this trade is horrible for the Blues:
  • Blues need a defensive player to pair with Pietrangelo, not a defensive liability.
  • Blues need to add a top six center, not subtract.
  • Blues don't need any wingers currently.
  • McAurthur wouldn't be a second line winger on the Blues.
  • Blues don't view McDonald, Oshie, or Schwartz as long-term NHL centers at this point in their careers. Oshie would see duty there before the other two, but only in a pinch.
  • OP is missing Langenbrunner and Nichol from Blues line-up.
  • OP is correct in Blues missing a couple of pieces, but doesn't offer to fill any of them in return for weakening the team down the middle.
  • Blues take on $5,100,000 in salary for next season.
  • Blues would still owe Liles $11,250,000 for the three seasons following this one.
  • The third round pick really offers little value, and is mostly there in an attempt to disguise this awful trade proposal.


This isn't even a Value Of post. It is a trade proposal for a decent center who still has some untapped potential that doesn't particuarlly take the Blues needs into account.

Well there you go. Next

CarvinSigX 01-12-2013 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakapono24 (Post 57470129)
Gunnarson and Bozak, perhaps?

I see you listened to the whole rant about needing another center...

jakapono24 01-12-2013 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarvinSigX (Post 57470347)
I see you listened to the whole rant about needing another center...

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, but I did read your rant. If I read it correctly you said you wouldn't trade Berglund unless a better centre was coming back, by way of magic or wizardry. That's unlikely to happen, but Bozak might fill in decently and with St. Louis' need for a defensive defenceman Gunnarson would help (although I vaguely remember Blues fans wanting an rhd, which I don't think is a huge deal).

If Blues fans don't want to trade him I get it, but the value is there. And don't think for a minute unless Blues fans say 'yes', that this exact thread will return in a few weeks from now - that's how Leafs fans negotiate: persistence (+ ignorance).

Frenzy1 01-12-2013 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakapono24 (Post 57470405)
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic, but I did read your rant. If I read it correctly you said you wouldn't trade Berglund unless a better centre was coming back, by way of magic or wizardry. That's unlikely to happen, but Bozak might fill in decently and with St. Louis' need for a defensive defenceman Gunnarson would help (although I vaguely remember Blues fans wanting an rhd, which I don't think is a huge deal).

If Blues fans don't want to trade him I get it, but the value is there. And don't think for a minute unless Blues fans say 'yes', that this exact thread will return in a few weeks from now - that's how Leafs fans negotiate: persistence (+ ignorance).

Kind of like your trade proposal. Magically filling a need for the leafs - while not helping the Blues. (Also it was a LHD not RHD). Value isn't there because it doesn't upgrade the Blues in anyway. Blues down grade at Center (a position w/ little depth) and add a 2nd pairing guy who really doesn't help them a lot.

The Blues would be much better w/ Berglund and Cole (yes less proven, but he is ready) in the line up the Bozak and Gunny. Especially When you take into account we don't have a true top line center, but two 2nd line guys in Berglund and Backes, with Steen filling in as the 3rd line center. (Backes, Bozak, and Steen would be just flat out bad - with little to no offense and Bozak isn't as good defensively as Berglund).

A winger for a dman makes some sense for the Blues. Not a center. You are correct about persistence, maybe some day a Blues fan will agree to make this trade - since we do seem to visit it every month or so.

Falco Lombardi 01-12-2013 09:25 AM

Still no.

McDonald, Schwartz, and Oshie are not centers anymore. Steen is playing center out of necessity because we don't have enough centers.

I've seen some people complain that Blues fans turn down everything (which is true) but its because regardless of value, the deals don't make sense for the team. Hope OP doesn't take this personally.

CaptainCally 01-12-2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minimalist (Post 57469381)
Liles, MacArthur and a 3rd? How can you turn down that package?


Sather is that you? :sarcasm:

CaptainCally 01-12-2013 09:59 AM

This is a little bit off topic but would you STL fans consider a deal around Del Zotto for Shattenkirk? Maybe add a piece here or there from each team if you feel like it needs to be more balanced or what not.

2 young good d-men that puts up good points. Rangers need a RD, and STL seems to need a LD. Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Polak on the right side. Seems like you could ''survive'' trading Shatty. Your left side looks like it could need a player of a lil' bit higher calibre than Jackman (no offense to him, solid player).

St Louis top 4 after the trade:

Del Zotto - Pietrangelo
Cole/Jackman - Polak

Rangers top 4 after the trade:

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Shattenkirk

bleedblue1223 01-12-2013 10:12 AM

No because we have no one after those three, we at least have options on the left.

CaptainCally 01-12-2013 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 (Post 57474177)
No because we have no one after those three, we at least have options on the left.

LD: Jackman, Cole and Huskins (?)
RD; Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Polak, Russell (he's a RD right?)

Seems like you need a LD. IMO you would look better with MDZ than with Shatty. Maybe I'm overrating Polak and underrating Cole though. Your team is real good I just thought that my team could use a RD. And I doubt you would become worse with this trade. Anyways, thanks for your response.

bleedblue1223 01-12-2013 12:32 PM

Russell is a lefty, and our callups in Peoria are lefties.

Frenzy1 01-12-2013 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCally (Post 57479295)
LD: Jackman, Cole and Huskins (?)
RD; Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Polak, Russell (he's a RD right?)

Seems like you need a LD. IMO you would look better with MDZ than with Shatty. Maybe I'm overrating Polak and underrating Cole though. Your team is real good I just thought that my team could use a RD. And I doubt you would become worse with this trade. Anyways, thanks for your response.

I like MDZ, but no need to make a lateral move. Russell played very well on the left side last year.

frostyflo 01-12-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCally (Post 57479295)
LD: Jackman, Cole and Huskins (?)
RD; Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Polak, Russell (he's a RD right?)

Seems like you need a LD. IMO you would look better with MDZ than with Shatty. Maybe I'm overrating Polak and underrating Cole though. Your team is real good I just thought that my team could use a RD. And I doubt you would become worse with this trade. Anyways, thanks for your response.

Russell is a LD and Husky isn't longer with us.

sorry OP but it has been said before and I say it again, Blues and Leafs aren't good trading partners at the moment

Gavy 01-12-2013 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jakapono24 (Post 57470129)
Gunnarson and Bozak, perhaps?

We CAN'T give up Gunnarson.

ManyIdeas 01-12-2013 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gavy (Post 57479875)
We CAN'T give up Gunnarson.

We can't give up the only player on our nhl roster to play only center throughout his entire career...

Falco Lombardi 01-12-2013 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCally (Post 57473901)
This is a little bit off topic but would you STL fans consider a deal around Del Zotto for Shattenkirk? Maybe add a piece here or there from each team if you feel like it needs to be more balanced or what not.

2 young good d-men that puts up good points. Rangers need a RD, and STL seems to need a LD. Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Polak on the right side. Seems like you could ''survive'' trading Shatty. Your left side looks like it could need a player of a lil' bit higher calibre than Jackman (no offense to him, solid player).

St Louis top 4 after the trade:

Del Zotto - Pietrangelo
Cole/Jackman - Polak

Rangers top 4 after the trade:

McDonagh - Girardi
Staal - Shattenkirk

If the Blues had more depth on the right side, I would strongly consider it, but there really is nothing after those three. The top reserves are all on the left side.

CaptainCally 01-12-2013 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Inglorious One (Post 57496843)
If the Blues had more depth on the right side, I would strongly consider it, but there really is nothing after those three. The top reserves are all on the left side.

We can throw in up and coming megastar: Stu Bickel :sarcasm::naughty:

TheHudlinator 01-12-2013 07:30 PM

What about something around Jbo?


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