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-   -   In Soviet Russia, Ryan O'Reilly signs you. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1323833)

Foppa Frossa 01-15-2013 11:10 AM

In Soviet Russia, Ryan O'Reilly signs you.
 
Continue your pining/hating for O'Reilly here.

TwoPadStack 01-15-2013 11:15 AM

I will be surprised if O'Ry plays another game for us.

Last summer, they were close, then it got ugly. This guy was close to signing when EJ re-signed. Alot of ugly things have happened and been said.

It's unfortunate that he's going to get a bad reputation for this. Both sides could have handled this very differently.

henchman24 01-15-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoPadStack (Post 57625491)
I will be surprised if O'Ry plays another game for us.

Last summer, they were close, then it got ugly. This guy was close to signing when EJ re-signed. Alot of ugly things have happened and been said.

It's unfortunate that he's going to get a bad reputation for this. Both sides could have handled this very differently.

He speaks! Thanks for the insight, but not what any of us really wanted to hear.

TatteredTornNFrayed 01-15-2013 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoPadStack (Post 57625491)
I will be surprised if O'Ry plays another game for us.

Last summer, they were close, then it got ugly. This guy was close to signing when EJ re-signed. Alot of ugly things have happened and been said.

It's unfortunate that he's going to get a bad reputation for this. Both sides could have handled this very differently.


Ouch. And there it is folks

Bubba Thudd 01-15-2013 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoPadStack (Post 57625491)
I will be surprised if O'Ry plays another game for us.

Last summer, they were close, then it got ugly. This guy was close to signing when EJ re-signed. Alot of ugly things have happened and been said.

It's unfortunate that he's going to get a bad reputation for this. Both sides could have handled this very differently.

So, do you have any idea what he does want?

To stay in Russia?
To be traded?
To be a 1st/2nd line Center?
To be paid like a 1st line Center?

hockeyfish 01-15-2013 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoPadStack (Post 57625491)
I will be surprised if O'Ry plays another game for us.

Last summer, they were close, then it got ugly. This guy was close to signing when EJ re-signed. Alot of ugly things have happened and been said.

It's unfortunate that he's going to get a bad reputation for this. Both sides could have handled this very differently.

The only way this works out is if he realizes that staying in the KHL any longer is only going to hurt him in the long run. We will still hold his rights for another 6 years, and that is only going to deflate his NHL value, as compensation will always be attached. And it's unlikely that other teams are going to be trading for him, as he can still hold out them like he is doing to us. It's a shame, he tried to get it, but the Avs are simply not going to budge. Maybe he will give up and come to terms now.

TatteredTornNFrayed 01-15-2013 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freudian (Post 57624395)
Why would you want to trade for a player who you don't know if you can sign? You hope his demands are lower than O'Reillys despite having zero knowledge?

I know people are getting silly around here because of the frustration of the situation, but c'mon. Be realistic. There is no way Avs are going to trade for Kulikov.


Well, to be fair, all of the trade speculation would hinge on the assumption that before it would ever happen, the teams would be communicating with each other, what their RFA's demands are, and with the other players agents about whether they would be interested in playing for the other team for those terms, and the deal would only be closed if each player were ready to accept a deal which the other team offered. If any of those things is in question, then I agree the trade won't happen, and it will remain a "rumor". But I strongly suspect Sherman has already been carrying out such talks with other teams for the last few days at the very least, in between communicating with ROR's agents. He'll explore his other options. It's like the Varly deal. Washington couldn't get him to sign, but he's traded to Colorado, and BAM, a deal is done shortly... because they'd already talked with him and came to a verbal agreement on terms.

But if Sherman can't get a return he is happy with in a player who agrees to a contract he is satisfied with, then I agree, he'll just hang onto O'Reilly.

Jaymond Flurrie 01-15-2013 11:24 AM

Here's a list of 100+ takeaway player-seasons since the 05 lockout:
2006-07 Pavel Datsyuk
2007-08 Pavel Datsyuk
2009-10 Pavel Datsyuk
2010-11 Joe Thornton
2011-12 Ryan O'Reilly

Thornton got 8 million for 2011-12, Datsyuk has been making 6.7 million for last X years.

21 years or younger players in top-30 in NHL faceoffs in 2011-12:
Ryan O'Reilly

Nzap 01-15-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 57626005)
Here's a list of 100+ takeaway player-seasons since the 05 lockout:
2006-07 Pavel Datsyuk
2007-08 Pavel Datsyuk
2009-10 Pavel Datsyuk
2010-11 Joe Thornton
2011-12 Ryan O'Reilly

Thornton got 8 million for 2011-12, Datsyuk has been making 6.7 million for last X years.

So you say O'Reilly would be well within his rights to demand over 6mil/year?

(of course he can demand whatever he wants, you know what I mean)

TwoPadStack 01-15-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 57626005)
Here's a list of 100+ takeaway player-seasons since the 05 lockout:
2006-07 Pavel Datsyuk
2007-08 Pavel Datsyuk
2009-10 Pavel Datsyuk
2010-11 Joe Thornton
2011-12 Ryan O'Reilly

Thornton got 8 million for 2011-12, Datsyuk has been making 6.7 million for last X years.

O'Ry's agent can, and has, put together a case that identifies him as one of the premiere defensive players of the past 20 years... statistically speaking. Given the offensive production increase as well that those players(and other players he is compared to) achieved, he has a really strong case. Sherman appears to be a hell of a negotiator though. As far as I know, only Jones had easy negotiations, but I don't know all of them.

Goulet17 01-15-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 57626005)
Here's a list of 100+ takeaway player-seasons since the 05 lockout:
2006-07 Pavel Datsyuk
2007-08 Pavel Datsyuk
2009-10 Pavel Datsyuk
2010-11 Joe Thornton
2011-12 Ryan O'Reilly

Thornton got 8 million for 2011-12, Datsyuk has been making 6.7 million for last X years.

Takeaways are only one component. Pavel Datsyuk and Joe Thornton are also elite level point producers in the NHL and top tier No. 1 centers.

henchman24 01-15-2013 11:27 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb and say this whole situation is solved by Friday. Either he is signed or traded. With TPS comments, probably the latter.

Duchene2MacKinnon 01-15-2013 11:27 AM

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=986

@Foppa2118

I think the situations between Foppa/Foote and ROR are comparble all 3 players wanted more money but they're just using different ways of getting it. It maybe be taboo of O'rielly to go and sign with in Russia but it shouldn't be. We also don't know if the avs are indeed trying to lowball Ryan, so it's hard to say.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=987

@nothinglikeanej

O'rielly owes the avs nothing. If they didn't draft him some other team would have, and he would have made the NHL at some point. He can do what ever he feels is the best for his career. Who are we to judge?

TPS has been wrong before, lets hope that's the case here.

Nzap 01-15-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoPadStack (Post 57626133)
As far as I know, only Jones had easy negotiations

And that was considered an overpayment.

henchman24 01-15-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoPadStack (Post 57626133)
O'Ry's agent can, and has, put together a case that identifies him as one of the premiere defensive players of the past 20 years... statistically speaking. Given the offensive production increase as well that those players(and other players he is compared to) achieved, he has a really strong case. Sherman appears to be a hell of a negotiator though. As far as I know, only Jones had easy negotiations, but I don't know all of them.

From the outside that is absolutely the case. He has proven to be very shrewd with what he pays out. Duchene's prove it deal probably shows it more than anybody's.

TwoPadStack 01-15-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldo (Post 57626183)
TPS has been wrong before, lets hope that's the case here.

Yup, I was absolutely shocked at the hometown discount JayMac took, turning down a better offer from us before FA started and other teams' offers after FA started.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong here as well!

Holyhell 01-15-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 57626005)
Here's a list of 100+ takeaway player-seasons since the 05 lockout:
2006-07 Pavel Datsyuk
2007-08 Pavel Datsyuk
2009-10 Pavel Datsyuk
2010-11 Joe Thornton
2011-12 Ryan O'Reilly

Thornton got 8 million for 2011-12, Datsyuk has been making 6.7 million for last X years.

I don't normally agree with JF, but this kid is astounding. He looks like he's right on the path to becoming a Selke nominee year in, year out.

JoemAvs 01-15-2013 11:34 AM

Thanks for the headsup TPS.

Really sucks to hear it though.

We can only hope that this somehow gets resolved (getting rid of his agent Ryan style and I am not blaming his agent but still)

Kind of spoils the excitement for this season.

Wonder what kind of trade Sherman will pull off.

I know that I won't like it because you know it is ROR leaving.

Wish him all the best but if he goes this will leave a sour taste with me :(

Freudian 01-15-2013 11:35 AM

Avs seems to be strong believes in short second contracts and then pay for UFA years in the third contract. Most players have bought in and O'Reilly is the first that really didn't. Stastny is excluded because it was a different GM and a different time.

The Mars Volchenkov 01-15-2013 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaymond Flurrie (Post 57626005)
Here's a list of 100+ takeaway player-seasons since the 05 lockout:
2006-07 Pavel Datsyuk
2007-08 Pavel Datsyuk
2009-10 Pavel Datsyuk
2010-11 Joe Thornton
2011-12 Ryan O'Reilly

Thornton got 8 million for 2011-12, Datsyuk has been making 6.7 million for last X years.

21 years or younger players in top-30 in NHL faceoffs in 2011-12:
Ryan O'Reilly

When O'Reilly puts up multiple PPG seasons then he can be compared to those guys. No one is saying he isn't great defensively.

Jaymond Flurrie 01-15-2013 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holyhell (Post 57626271)
I don't normally agree with JF, but this kid is astounding. He looks like he's right on the path to becoming a Selke nominee year in, year out.

Also, people (for example http://www.milehighhockey.com/2013/1...-rfa-situation) are saying that O'Reilly is not proven. How exactly he isn't proven? First of all, this guy wasn't supposed to make NHL as 18 year old. How many second rounders have done that? He probably wasn't supposed to score an OT goal in playoffs in his rookie season. He probably wasn't supposed to be the best (ok, arguably) defensive U20-forward in NHL. He probably wasn't supposed to lead and get 100+ takeaways in his third season. How many players have done that? And for sure he wasn't supposed to lead Avalanche in scoring. Scoring is, like I wrote earlier, a trivial part of O'Reilly's game.

There simply isn't this proven U21 defensive forwards in the world.

TatteredTornNFrayed 01-15-2013 11:38 AM

Aren't takeaways one of those stats that vary wildly based upon the locale and scorekeeper?

He's obviously a fantastic defender, as we've all seen by his play. But is it possible this particular stat doesn't always compare well?

Nzap 01-15-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov (Post 57626753)
When O'Reilly puts up multiple PPG seasons then he can be compared to those guys. No one is saying he isn't great defensively.

And didn't someone say that the Avs are one of the teams with the most "loose" interpretation of a takeaway, i.e. it's easier to rack up good numbers while playing in Denver.

EDIT: Oooh, beaten to it.

RockLobster 01-15-2013 11:39 AM

My favorite poster has returned! TPS I really appreciate the insight you provide us, hope to hear more from you in the future.

Bender 01-15-2013 11:40 AM

Update
 
Just heard live minutes ago on Hockey Central at Noon, interview with Don Meehan when asked about O'Rielly and if the two sides were close:

"People from our office were talking with GM Greg Sherman last night and have been in constant communication with the Avalanche (assuming since MOU)".

He wouldn't say whether the two sides were close or not.

Earlier in the interview, when asked the same question about Subban, he definitely said the two sides were NOT close.

There you go.


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