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-   -   Do you believe our "window" to win the Cup is still open? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1324507)

droid56 01-16-2013 12:53 AM

Do you believe our "window" to win the Cup is still open?
 
I keep reading posts referring to our window to win the Cup being open for 2 or 3 years.

I love the Canucks, and have been following their fortunes from day one, but I doubt that their window is still open.

I love the Sedins, but does anyone seriously believe they are the type of players that can triumph in the playoffs when the refs put their whistles away. The series vs Boston
is strong evidence that this is true.

And then there is Ryan Kesler. He is an injury waiting to happen. And his production has become less for various reasons.

I guess the fact that the L.A. Kings won the Stanley Cup after just making the playoffs show us that the window is still open for our team. But the evidence of the past 2 or 3 years suggests that it is quite unlikely that the Canucks are a serious contender for the Cup.

I hope I'm wrong.

Canucker 01-16-2013 12:56 AM

Window wide open.

Street Hawk 01-16-2013 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canucker (Post 57663347)
Window wide open.

How long that window remains open depends on Gillis' draft picks.

Kassian (I'm basically putting his name down for Hodgson)
Sauve
Schroeder
Rodin
Connautton
McNally
Anderson
Price
Jensen
Honzig
Labate
Gaunce
Mallett

Nucks have to get something out of this group. Running on fumes due to the 2006 and 2007 drafts being duds for them, in addition to the passing of Bourdon.

Jensen has the highest offensive ceiling of the group, but after that, takes a dip. So, once the twins decline, the Nucks will be in major need of offense.

Bgav 01-16-2013 01:03 AM

Yup, our D plus our offense when healthy.. Easily one of the best teams in the league

timw33 01-16-2013 01:06 AM

Need ELC contributors in the next two seasons to extend our window.

If we can re-sign the Sedins to a less expensive 2-3 year deal after this one and can surround them with some high end talent and good young ELC player I think that's our next big chance. 29-31 year old Schnieder, 34 YO Sedin's in a secondary scoring role for maybe 3.5-4M a season, Top 4 Dmen in the 29-33 year old range. Just need some younger talent to surround them with.

CpatainCanuck 01-16-2013 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by droid56 (Post 57663311)
I keep reading posts referring to our window to win the Cup being open for 2 or 3 years.

I love the Canucks, and have been following their fortunes from day one, but I doubt that their window is still open.

I love the Sedins, but does anyone seriously believe they are the type of players that can triumph in the playoffs when the refs put their whistles away. The series vs Boston
is strong evidence that this is true.

And then there is Ryan Kesler. He is an injury waiting to happen. And his production has become less for various reasons.

I guess the fact that the L.A. Kings won the Stanley Cup after just making the playoffs show us that the window is still open for our team. But the evidence of the past 2 or 3 years suggests that it is quite unlikely that the Canucks are a serious contender for the Cup.

I hope I'm wrong.

This is a team that won the President's trophy last season.

The only significant players they have lost from last year are Salo and Pahlsson. They added Jason Garrison, so the step back player wise is not very significant.

If the canucks were healthy I would expect them to compete for another President's Trophy...obviously with Kesler injured that is unlikely to happen.

Bleach Clean 01-16-2013 01:19 AM

Historically, the higher scoring teams are the ones that tend to go deep in the playoffs. These teams have a greater chance to have a better goal differential, and that is a clear sign of team strength. As long as this team stays in the top 5, the window is wide open IMO.


To that effect, Schroeder finding his NHL game will go a long way in assuaging fears here. He needs to become a 2nd liner, eventually. If he is able to do that, then this team is fine for a long time. Centre ice will be taken care of with Schroeder and Gaunce on the way -- and possibly more in the Luongo trade -- and the offense will continue to hum along.


Offense is key here. It's a reason I think Gillis prioritizes forwards at the top end of the draft.

timw33 01-16-2013 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean (Post 57663809)
Historically, the higher scoring teams are the ones that tend to go deep in the playoffs. These teams have a greater chance to have a better goal differential, and that is a clear sign of team strength. As long as this team stays in the top 5, the window is wide open IMO.


To that effect, Schroeder finding his NHL game will go a long way in assuaging fears here. He needs to become a 2nd liner, eventually. If he is able to do that, then this team is fine for a long time. Centre ice will be taken care of with Schroeder and Gaunce on the way -- and possibly more in the Luongo trade -- and the offense will continue to hum along.


Offense is key here. It's a reason I think Gillis prioritizes forwards at the top end of the draft.

Gaunce Schroeder Jensen Corrado and Kassian need to be contributors in some role in the next two seasons and it will allow us to shore up other areas with the savings.

NugentHopkinsfan 01-16-2013 01:29 AM

I think we already missed our window but that's just me. I honestly expect a repeat of last playoffs this year, maybe not in round 1 but our offence will dry up and we won't be able to overcome it.

Dado 01-16-2013 01:30 AM

It's rarely completely closed. That said, this core is well passed prime with little coming to reload. The past three seasons were fantastic fun, but IMO we're in a multi year downswing now.

Bieksallent 01-16-2013 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dado (Post 57663973)
It's rarely completely closed. That said, this core is well passed prime with little coming to reload. The past three seasons were fantastic fun, but IMO we're in a multi year downswing now.

Who is past their prime?

mriswith 01-16-2013 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by droid56 (Post 57663311)
But the evidence of the past 2 or 3 years suggests that it is quite unlikely that the Canucks are a serious contender for the Cup.

I don't understand how a SCF appearance and back to back PT's in any way constitute evidence against us being contenders. Elite 1/2C, elite goaltending, and one of the best top four defenses in the league. We are definitely still contenders and will be until the Sedins decline. All we lack is scoring depth and good luck with staying healthy.

Agent007 01-16-2013 01:52 AM

Sedins just turned 32, Kesler just turned 28 and Burrows is 31.

In a couple of seasons we could have something like this:

Sedin(34)*-Sedin(34)*-Burrows(33)
Jensen(21)-Kesler(30)-Kassian(23)
Booth(30)-Schroeder(24)-Hansen(28)*

Hamhuis(30)-Bieksa(33)
Edler(28)*-Corrado(21)
Garrison(30)-Tanev(25)

Schneider(28)
Lack(27)

*need to resign

That lineup right there is still pretty darn good. The biggest question will be when do the Sedins start to decline and can guys like Jensen and Kassian help reduce the impact of that decline by being able to put up respectable numbers at the NHL level.

Assuming we get the Sedins, and Edler resigned then our window should be good to go for 3-4 years including this season and that's really all you can ask for at this point.

Dado 01-16-2013 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bieksallent (Post 57663999)
Who is past their prime?

The Sedins for sure, and that's already enough. Kesler is currently TBD - here's hoping!

Fat Tony 01-16-2013 01:55 AM

2011 was this generation's best shot at a Cup. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see this group of players getting that close again.

Bieksallent 01-16-2013 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dado (Post 57664329)
The Sedins for sure, and that's already enough. Kesler is currently TBD - here's hoping!

I think that's harsh. The Sedins dropped off from their Hart-caliber form, sure. There could be many causes for that but I don't think being past it is one of them. The return of obstruction hinders cycle players like the Sedins more than most and I'd say that's far likelier the key in them dropping from 100+ point players to ~80 point players last year.

They rely on conditioning and balance more than speed and agility. They should be effective first liners far longer than the average superstar forward. I doubt they seriously start to decline until their mid-to-late 30s.

007, da 'Huis will be 32 in another few years. But, yeah, none of our key players should be in decline for another few years for certain. Hopefully Kesler's body holds up. He's the biggest concern.

LiveeviL 01-16-2013 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dado (Post 57664329)
The Sedins for sure, and that's already enough. Kesler is currently TBD - here's hoping!

Yes, ages since the won the Hart/Art Ross & Art Ross/Ted Lindsay.

David71 01-16-2013 02:14 AM

2011 was the nucks best chance, but injuries derailed half the roster. kesler/sedins/hamhuis. their window is closing. sedins will be old.

roach9 01-16-2013 02:21 AM

No.

It's closed.

Socratic Method Man 01-16-2013 02:26 AM

I just don't see the doom and gloom some are predicting. Reading this thread I would think our team is the Red Wings. And I think even they have a decent shot at a cup still. Our team's core is overall much younger than Detroit's.

I think that in the next 2 or 3 years we will absolutely need at least 1 prospect through the system to emerge as a high-end player, and probably 2, for us to continue being elite. Either that or sign a star in F.A. Or else perhaps aquire one in a big trade... but that's a long time away. for the next 2 years we're an elite team. And if we can sign the Sedins after that, we should continue being elite for at least another 2 years. And who knows what changes are made by then.

fuzzay 01-16-2013 02:32 AM

I don't feel as optimistic towards this season, but I don't consider our window closed yet either. If the Sedins continue their high level of play into their mid to late 30s, which is possible considering their style of play, we could remain a consistent cup contender for at least the foreseeable future. I am not expecting another President's Trophy however.

I am perhaps more curious to see how Minnesota and Edmonton have improved. Colorado too... I guess.

25Bieksa3 01-16-2013 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuzzay (Post 57664795)
I am perhaps more curious to see how Minnesota and Edmonton have improved. Colorado too... I guess.

That's how I feel about it.

I feel the Canucks still have what it takes to bring close to what they brought in '11, but the fact is our division is a LOT stronger than it was then, and so it won't be quite as easy to steamroll into a top 3 conference position.

So, I am not so worried about the Canucks as I am worried about them relative to their competition, and in short I do think the window is... next to closed... this season, next, or I think it won't happen for another decade,

Reverend Mayhem 01-16-2013 02:45 AM

MacKinnon here we come!

Outside99* 01-16-2013 02:54 AM

the difference between the 1st seed and the 10th seed in the west is a couple of injuries and ufa/trade deadline signings so Yes, the window is still open.

VanCanucks14 01-16-2013 03:00 AM

Our window's still open but I feel our best chance was in 2011 and we're never getting that close again with this core of players. I hope I'm wrong but considering the parity in the league and how teams around us are also getting better I wouldn't be surprised.

If we were healthy this season I could see us having a heck of a shot again but we'll see how Kesler plays when he comes back.


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