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-   -   Sundin vs Alfie (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1325823)

johnnyutah 01-17-2013 04:22 PM

Sundin vs Alfie
 
Whos better?

Hurt 01-17-2013 04:26 PM

Moved to Polls.

fly4apuckguy 01-17-2013 05:02 PM

I have a lot of respect for Alffie, but Sundin was a truly outstanding player. I picked Sundin.

Erik Alfredsson 01-17-2013 05:22 PM

Friggin Alfie! Alfie entered the league at 24 year old, he played 16 seasons. Although Alfredsson might be worse offensively then Sundin, it's very close and not as much of a difference then people think. Alfredsson played a way more complete game then Sundin having defensive ability as well, while Sundin relied on his offense. Alfredsson was effected by two lockouts now, one happening in the prime of his career. Sundin also had the benefit of being in the middle of the ice most of the time due to his position, while Alfredsson plays the right. Alfredsson also had leadership quality's as well, carrying his team to the finals in 07. Mats Sundin did lead Sweden, however was the most experienced player on the team and was a sure choice for the c just for that, he didn't even lead Sweden in points... for such a better player then Alfredsson, he ended up behind him the points. Mats has no trophies and Alfies got two. Mats never took his team even to the finals, when Alfie did it, and should've been a cup (03)

jbeck5 01-17-2013 05:29 PM

Obviously alfie...can sundin still skate?

Falcons93 01-17-2013 05:29 PM

Sundin for me.

The Big Swede 01-17-2013 05:30 PM

Alfie is better two way player but Sundin was better offensively and never played with anyone except a washed up Mogilny and Robert. Alfie played with Heatley and Spezza

And if were counting international accomplishments Sundin was the captain of Sweden when they won the cup(A team that included the likes of Alfie,Lidstrom,Forsberg)

darglor 01-17-2013 05:34 PM

Homer: Alfie AINEC
Homerism aside: Alfie and it's very close. Offense is better for Sundin, defense/leadership/team commitment is better for Alfie.

FishManSam 01-17-2013 05:35 PM

Sundin AINEMFC

jbeck5 01-17-2013 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Swede (Post 57750875)
Alfie is better two way player but Sundin was better offensively and never played with anyone except a washed up Mogilny and Robert. Alfie played with Heatley and Spezza

And if were counting international accomplishments Sundin was the captain of Sweden when they won the cup(A team that included the likes of Alfie,Lidstrom,Forsberg)

Mogilny was a point a game player pretty much for the leafs... Plus you make it seem like alfie played with heater and spezz for most of his career. His time with those 2 is a small portion of his career. Like 2-3 years out of 16... Who was alfies center the 9 years before the lockout? (you're wrong if you say yashin or daigle)...or how about the last 3-4 years? (you're wrong if you say spezza)...

I'm sick of people saying alfie's numbers are as good as they are because of spezza and heatley...sure, they all benefited...alfredsson got 85-100 points with those 2...but proved to be over a point a game playing with average players...so maybe he would have 20-30 points less in his career if he didn't play with spezza and heatley...it is such a small factor that isn't worth mentioning when he's had such a long career. It's too insignificant of a difference.

TML g u n n e R s* 01-17-2013 05:38 PM

The first ballot hall of famer MATS SUNDIN!

The Big Swede 01-17-2013 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbeck5 (Post 57751135)
Mogilny was a point a game player pretty much for the leafs... Plus you make it seem like alfie played with heater and spezz for most of his career. His time with those 2 is a small portion of his career. Like 2-3 years out of 16... Who was alfies center the 9 years before the lockout? (you're wrong if you say yashin or daigle)...or how about the last 3-4 years? (you're wrong if you say spezza)...

I'm sick of people saying alfie's numbers are as good as they are because of spezza and heatley...sure, they all benefited...alfredsson got 85-100 points with those 2...but proved to be over a point a game playing with average players...so maybe he would have 20-30 points less in his career if he didn't play with spezza and heatley...it is such a small factor that isn't worth mentioning when he's had such a long career. It's too insignificant of a difference.

Sundin also played with guys called Jonas Hoglund ,imagine if he would have had a decent winger for at least half of his career

Orr123 01-17-2013 05:43 PM

Sundin, definitely better. But I prefer Alfie. Obviously. Lol.

Falcons93 01-17-2013 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Swede (Post 57751331)
Sundin also played with guys called Jonas Hoglund ,imagine if he would have had a decent winger for at least half of his career

Look at how many points Sundin had compared to his teammates and how many points Alfredsson had/has compared to his teammates throughout their careers. Alfredsson clearly had a lot more to work with than Sundin. I don't see how anyone in their right mind could dispute that. Not to mention I'm fairly confident Sundin didn't play with Mogilny for more than half a season other than the PP (though I may be wrong, I'm sure someone could look this up).

FireEverybody* 01-17-2013 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s (Post 57751213)
The first ballot hall of famer MATS SUNDIN!

Annnnd everyone is mad. :handclap:

Sundin, this is kind of...kidding.. not even close, son.

jbeck5 01-17-2013 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Swede (Post 57751331)
Sundin also played with guys called Jonas Hoglund ,imagine if he would have had a decent winger for at least half of his career

I would like to think they both didn't have very good linemates for most of their career. Hoglund was pretty bad haha but we had guys like schaefer, arvedsson, dackell, mecheachern, white, smolinski, as a rotating door for centers and other wingers. All(except for shawn and smoke) never really had a career anywhere else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcons93 (Post 57751541)
Look at how many points Sundin had compared to his teammates and how many points Alfredsson had/has compared to his teammates throughout their careers. Alfredsson clearly had a lot more to work with than Sundin. I don't see how anyone in their right mind could dispute that. Not to mention I'm fairly confident Sundin didn't play with Mogilny for more than half a season other than the PP (though I may be wrong, I'm sure someone could look this up).

Alfredsson had more pure talent on his team, but he didn't play with them. You'd have hossa,alfredsson, and havlat on all 3 lines. Yeah, i don't think mogilny played much with sundin other then pp, you're probably right..it was more just in response to the person who mentioned mogilny like he was a scrub by the time he got to toronto, which i disagree with.

inthewings 01-17-2013 05:54 PM

Point shares:

Sundin = 144.4 in 1346 games
Alfredsson 125.2 1131 games

Id you like that as a metric... it's close. Very close.

Crispy Crust 01-17-2013 05:55 PM

Sundin but it's really close.

inthewings 01-17-2013 06:02 PM

Both will enter the HOF anyway :yo:

leaflover 01-17-2013 06:05 PM

Too close, would have been an appropriate option between these two.

MastuhNinks 01-17-2013 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthewings (Post 57752091)
Point shares:

Sundin = 144.4 in 1346 games
Alfredsson 125.2 1131 games

Id you like that as a metric... it's close. Very close.

If you want to bring stats like that into play, it's worth noting that Mats Sundin is 35th all time in GVT. Not sure where Alfie ranks, he's not on the list.

Modo 01-17-2013 06:14 PM

I would think even Alfie would vote for Sundin here. Sundin's very much respected in Swedish hockey circles (or so I've been told :laugh:), so it stands to reason he'd get the nod here.

Also, having watched him play for most of the time he was here, I can throw my own vote down for him as well. And isn't that just as important? :D

inthewings 01-17-2013 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 57752775)
If you want to bring stats like that into play, it's worth noting that Mats Sundin is 35th all time in GVT. Not sure where Alfie ranks, he's not on the list.

I'm going to assume (because I don't have the data) that Alfie would make up a big part of the difference if given the opportunity to make up the 215 games Sundin has on him.

Regal 01-17-2013 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Alfredsson (Post 57750457)
Friggin Alfie! Alfie entered the league at 24 year old, he played 16 seasons. Although Alfredsson might be worse offensively then Sundin, it's very close and not as much of a difference then people think. Alfredsson played a way more complete game then Sundin having defensive ability as well, while Sundin relied on his offense. Alfredsson was effected by two lockouts now, one happening in the prime of his career. Sundin also had the benefit of being in the middle of the ice most of the time due to his position, while Alfredsson plays the right. Alfredsson also had leadership quality's as well, carrying his team to the finals in 07. Mats Sundin did lead Sweden, however was the most experienced player on the team and was a sure choice for the c just for that, he didn't even lead Sweden in points... for such a better player then Alfredsson, he ended up behind him the points. Mats has no trophies and Alfies got two. Mats never took his team even to the finals, when Alfie did it, and should've been a cup (03)

So was Sundin.


This is really close for me, it's hard to decide. I don't think they were that far apart offensively. Sundin never had great linemates, but I don't think it would have drastically improved his totals. Alfredsson has been that 70+ point guy just like Sundin for the most part. Sundin was better internationally, started younger, generally more durable, and had a longer prime. I think Alfredsson might have been a bit better at his best, was better defensively, and had played, and played well, at a later age. I might give a small edge to Sundin. I think he had a bit more of an ability to take over a game, but I liked Alfredsson more.

Benny FTW 01-17-2013 06:27 PM

Alfredsson because poll was worded poorly.

for reals its Sundin. sadface


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