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-   -   The thread in which I invite people to explain how AV hates young/skilled players (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1326747)

RobertKron 01-18-2013 04:56 PM

The thread in which I invite people to explain how AV hates young/skilled players
 
Okay, so this has been going on for a while, and it comes up at some point all over the place, so let's just have a thread where we can do this.

Please post, in as much detail as possible, explanations and examples that show your reasoning for why you believe that Alain Vigneault:
-Dislikes young players and does not give them a chance.
-Dislikes skilled players and instead favours lesser players.
-Is bad at developing young players.

Can we please do this instead of the usual flyby mentioning this in other threads?

Steve Bennett* 01-18-2013 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 57802223)
Okay, so this has been going on for a while, and it comes up at some point all over the place, so let's just have a thread where we can do this.

Please post, in as much detail as possible, explanations and examples that show your reasoning for why you believe that Alain Vigneault:
-Dislikes young players and does not give them a chance.
-Dislikes skilled players and instead favours lesser players.
-Is bad at developing young players.

Can we please do this instead of the usual flyby mentioning this in other threads?

Audio Visual rocks...

keep thu guy around...

putridgasbag 01-18-2013 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 57802223)
Okay, so this has been going on for a while, and it comes up at some point all over the place, so let's just have a thread where we can do this.

Please post, in as much detail as possible, explanations and examples that show your reasoning for why you believe that Alain Vigneault:
-Dislikes young players and does not give them a chance.
-Dislikes skilled players and instead favours lesser players.
-Is bad at developing young players.

Can we please do this instead of the usual flyby mentioning this in other threads?

You can add how does AV control roster moves or gets credit(?!) for roster moves.

Nuckles 01-18-2013 05:02 PM

http://i.imgur.com/bCyI1.jpg

"Alain Vigneault doesn't care about young players."

me2 01-18-2013 05:07 PM

He borrows their stuff then has Gillis send them down so he doesn't have to give it back.

serge2k 01-18-2013 05:07 PM

He doesn't hate young skill guys.


He just lives his lousy old guys.

RobertKron 01-18-2013 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by serge2k (Post 57802949)
He doesn't hate young skill guys.


He just lives his lousy old guys.

List 4 examples.

David71 01-18-2013 05:09 PM

he also doesnt like russian players too remember shirokov?

Barney Gumble 01-18-2013 05:13 PM

They like old over the hill bands.....re: U2 Canuck intro song.:sarcasm:

Alan Jackson 01-18-2013 05:15 PM

I personally don't think it's so much of an age thing, it's more of a "skilled player" thing. AV has a "type", and pretty clearly isn't comfortable will skilled players, especially if they have some perceived flaws defensively or lack "grit". This is especially true for players in his bottom six. AV has no time for skill on his bottom two lines, especially on the 4th line.

He also plays favourites, and decides he likes certain guys, and doesn't like others, regardless of how they perform.

He never had much time for Trevor Linden, but couldn't get enough Jeff Cowan or Byron Ritchie. It was pretty clear he was never very high on that kid from Brampton. Didn't like Grabner or Shirokov. Couldn't stand Kyle Wellwood.

AV will play young players: guys like Weiss won't have any problem. I think Jensen might have a good shot, because AV can picture him in a bottom six role.

ThereGoesVirtanen 01-18-2013 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 57803011)
List 4 examples.

Rome
Ebbett
Fitzpatrick
Miller

RobertKron 01-18-2013 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDK (Post 57803391)
Rome
Ebbett
Fitzpatrick
Miller

And the better players he was blocking with them?

Reverend Mayhem 01-18-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 57803011)
List 4 examples.

Desbiens ----> Tambellini

Literally the only one I can think of.

Bobby Lou 01-18-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 57803011)
List 4 examples.

Apparently you're unaware of the legend of Byron Ritchie playing the point on the PP.

Barney Gumble 01-18-2013 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Lou (Post 57803887)
Apparently you're unaware of the legend of Byron Ritchie playing the point on the PP.

When you're dealt a crap hand in poker, that's not much you can do.:)

Pump n Dump 01-18-2013 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 57802223)
Okay, so this has been going on for a while, and it comes up at some point all over the place, so let's just have a thread where we can do this.

Please post, in as much detail as possible, explanations and examples that show your reasoning for why you believe that Alain Vigneault:
-Dislikes young players and does not give them a chance.
-Dislikes skilled players and instead favours lesser players.
-Is bad at developing young players.

Can we please do this instead of the usual flyby mentioning this in other threads?

:handclap:

Basically, the people who subscribe to this view all think that newbies should be thrown on the 1st or 2nd line and left there for a couple of months to "develop" because, Lord knows, the priority should be to develop those players, not to win games. Tony Gallagher was whining on Team 1040 this morning about players like Kassian getting 6 min a game on the 4th line. People forget what this team was like when AV became coach - he has demonstrated that he knows how to develop young players.

pitseleh 01-18-2013 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 57803467)
And the better players he was blocking with them?

(I completely agree with your original point, but) The only egregious example I can think of is when they decided to keep Rick Rypien/Mike Brown as the team's 12th/13th forwards and waived Kyle Wellwood when they had no offensive depth on the farm whatsoever. Someone got hurt, and they had to risk putting Wellwood through re-entry waivers to get him back up when an inevitable injury hit.

mrmyheadhurts 01-18-2013 06:01 PM

Basically, AV is a victim of his own success.

He develops most of our current core players, team turns into perennial Cup contenders, team gets poorer draft position, team can't or won't draft high end offensive talent = AV hates youth and skill.

Reverend Mayhem 01-18-2013 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmyheadhurts (Post 57805579)
Basically, AV is a victim of his own success.

He develops most of our current core players, team turns into perennial Cup contenders, team gets poorer draft position, team can't or won't draft high end offensive talent = AV hates youth and skill.

**** it. Best theory I've seen.

Hodgy 01-18-2013 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitseleh (Post 57804429)
(I completely agree with your original point, but) The only egregious example I can think of is when they decided to keep Rick Rypien/Mike Brown as the team's 12th/13th forwards and waived Kyle Wellwood when they had no offensive depth on the farm whatsoever. Someone got hurt, and they had to risk putting Wellwood through re-entry waivers to get him back up when an inevitable injury hit.

Was there much of an age difference between Rypien/Brown and Wellwood? Couldn't have been much more than a few years....

pitseleh 01-18-2013 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hodgy (Post 57805969)
Was there much of an age difference between Rypien/Brown and Wellwood? Couldn't have been much more than a few years....

Wellwood was a year older than Rypien and two years older than Brown.

Outside99* 01-18-2013 06:15 PM

The explanation is simple really.

AV is risk-averse. Almost every press conference, scrum or interview he talks about making the high % play.

He doesn't like players who take risks but for offensive forwards, that's the nature of the beast.

Does anyone remember when a Canucks dman not usually known for his offensive prowess (Lukowich?) made this end to end rush and scored and AV was laughing his head off saying it was very risky but that fortunately it had worked out?

Alan Jackson 01-18-2013 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outside99 (Post 57806333)
The explanation is simple really.

AV is risk-averse. Almost every press conference, scrum or interview he talks about making the high % play.

This is true.

The trouble is, sometimes highly skilled players might cheat out of the zone or lose their man defensively, especially when they're learning the game. I don't think AV has any patience for that.

We saw an example of this last year. Vigneault was clearly never comfortable with...you know who, and felt better replacing him with a player like Pahlsson.

In that case, I think the cautious approach hurt the team's chances to win.

Free Kassian 01-18-2013 06:29 PM

We're not the ****ing Edmonton Oilers.

serge2k 01-18-2013 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MW (Post 57803011)
List 4 examples.

It was a joke, but Rome, Rome, Rome, and Rome.


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