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shureshot66 01-20-2013 12:31 PM

Long-term roster-building discussion (Full contract chart in post #1)
 
All figures are cap numbers, not salaries, and are taken directly from www.capgeek.com.


2012-2013 salary ceiling: .................70,200,000
Projected cap spending: ...................66,291,557
Projected cap space: .........................3,908,443


2013-2014 salary ceiling: .................64,300,000
Projected cap spending: ...................54,898,333
Projected cap space: .........................9,401,667
(17 players signed | 15 on one-way contracts, plus Despres and Bennett)



PITTSBURGH PENGUINS
Forward.................
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Sidney Crosby
C
25
8,700,000
8,700,000
8,700,000
Evgeni Malkin
C
26
8,700,000
8,700,000
UFA
Jarome Iginla
RW
35
7,000,000
UFA
 
James Neal
RW
25
5,000,000
5,000,000
5,000,000
Brenden Morrow
LW
34
4,100,000
UFA
 
Chris Kunitz
LW
33
3,725,000
3,725,000
UFA
Jussi Jokinen
LW
30
2,100,000
2,100,000
UFA
Brandon Sutter
C
23
2,066,667
2,066,667
RFA
Tyler Kennedy
RW
26
2,000,000
RFA
 
Matt Cooke
LW
34
1,800,000
UFA
 
Pascal Dupuis
RW
33
1,500,000
UFA
 
Tanner Glass
LW
29
1,100,000
1,100,000
UFA
Beau Bennett
RW
21
900,000
900,000
900,000
Craig Adams
RW
35
675,000
UFA
 
Dustin Jeffrey
C
24
575,000
RFA
 
Joe Vitale
C
27
550,000
550,000
UFA
Defense.................
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
.2014-15
Paul Martin
D
31
5,000,000
5,000,000
5,000,000
Brooks Orpik
D
32
3,750,000
3,750,000
UFA
Kris Letang
D
25
3,500,000
3,500,000
UFA
Douglas Murray
D
33
2,500,000
UFA
 
Matt Niskanen
D
26
2,300,000
2,300,000
UFA
Simon Despres
D
21
840,000
840,000
RFA
Mark Eaton
D
35
725,000
UFA
 
Deryk Engelland
D
30
566,667
566,667
UFA
Robert Bortuzzo
D
23
525,000
RFA
 
Goalie....................
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Marc-Andre Fleury
G
28
5,000,000
5,000,000
5,000,000
Tomas Vokoun
G
36
2,000,000
2,000,000
UFA
Eric Hartzell
G
23
1,595,625
RFA
 



WILKES-BARRE/SCRANTON PENGUINS
Forward...............
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Jayson Megna
C
22
925,000
925,000
RFA
Brian Gibbons
C
24
900,000
RFA
 
Paul Thompson
RW
24
900,000
RFA
 
Adam Payerl
RW
21
850,000
850,000
850,000
Tom Kuhnhackl
LW
20
821,667
821,667
821,667
Steve MacIntyre
LW
32
625,000
625,000
UFA
Philippe Dupuis
C
27
600,000
UFA
 
Warren Peters
LW
30
600,000
UFA
 
Dominik Uher
C
20
600,000
600,000
600,000
Trevor Smith
C
27
575,000
UFA
 
Zach Sill
C
24
535,000
RFA
 
Riley Holzapfel
C
24
525,000
RFA
 
Chad Kolarik
C
26
525,000
UFA
 
Defense...............
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Brian Dumoulin
D
21
900,000
900,000
900,000
Philip Samuelsson
D
21
900,000
900,000
RFA
Dylan Reese
D
28
600,000
UFA
 
Reid McNeill
D
20
558,333
558,333
558,333
Alex Grant
D
23
525,000
RFA
 
Goalie..................
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Jeff Zatkoff
G
25
525,000
525,000
UFA
Brad Thiessen
G
26
525,000
UFA
 



WHEELING NAILERS
Forward...............
Pos.
Age
2012-13
2013-14
2014-15
Keven Veilleux
RW
23
525,000
RFA
 



SIGNED PROSPECTS
Player
Pos.
Age
Current Team
Contract
Derrick Pouliot
D
18
Portland (WHL)
3 years/1,350,000 per
Olli Maatta
D
18
London (OHL)
3 years/925,000 per
Scott Harrington
D
19
London (OHL)
3 years/894,167 per
Harrison Ruopp
D
19
Prince Albert (WHL)
3 years/650,833 per
Nick D'Agostino
D
22
Cornell (ECAC)
2 years/625,000 per
Anton Zlobin
LW
20
Val d'Or (QMJHL)
3 years/608,333 per



UNSIGNED PROSPECTS
Player
Pos.
Age
Current Team (League)
Josh Archibald
F
20
Nebraska-Omaha (WCHA)
Teddy Blueger
F
18
Minnesota State (WCHA)
Sean Maguire
G
19
Boston University (HEA)
Matia Marcantuoni
F
18
Kitchener (OHL)
Matt Murray
G
18
Sault Ste. Marie (OHL)
Alexander Pechurskiy
G
22
Orsk (VHL)
Bryan Rust
F
20
Notre Dame (CCHA)
Clark Seymour
D
19
Peterborough (OHL)
Oskar Sundqvist
F
18
Skellefteċ (SEL)
Alex Velischek
D
22
Providence (HEA)
Scott Wilson
F
20
UMass-Lowell (HEA)

shureshot66 01-20-2013 12:40 PM

To give an idea of just how much flexibility Shero has for a Cup run, the Pens are projected to bank enough cap space to be able to add more than $40 million in full-season cap hits (the equivalent of nearly six Iginlas) at the trade deadline.

That number will inevitably shrink as the season goes along and injuries strike, necessitating call-ups. And obviously it will be tricky to add long-term contracts because of the cap ceiling dropping in 2013-14 and the Pens needing to re-sign Malkin and Letang for 2014-15.

But clearly there is still plenty of room to get creative. So let's hear it. Start up the (feasible) wishlists.

eXile59 01-20-2013 12:49 PM

I just want us to be prepared to resign Malkin & Letang in two years. You can't replace those type of players.

I'm also a little worried about losing Cooke, Dupuis, and/or Kennedy. Two of which are aging. All the things Cooke does for us & he's gonna be on the bad side of 30 soon.

KIRK 01-20-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shureshot66 (Post 57939553)
To give an idea of just how much flexibility Shero has for a Cup run, the Pens are projected to bank enough cap space to be able to add more than $40 million in full-season cap hits (the equivalent of nearly six Iginlas) at the trade deadline.

That number will inevitably shrink as the season goes along and injuries strike, necessitating call-ups. And obviously it will be tricky to add long-term contracts because of the cap ceiling dropping in 2013-14 and the Pens needing to re-sign Malkin and Letang for 2014-15.

But clearly there is still plenty of room to get creative. So let's hear it. Start up the (feasible) wishlists.

The other important thing is that he's got more assets to work with than he's ever had. When he got Hossa and Gill, he emptied the cupboard. He's got a lot more to work with this time.

IMO, he could get Sid an impact winger, upgrade L2 LW, and upgrade/add insurance on defense and still have plenty of his top assets (the big five defensemen, even Dumoulin, Bennett, first two picks in this deep draft) left over.

Riptide 01-20-2013 02:17 PM

What about Michael Ryder? Multiple 30 goal seasons. UFA this summer. Would likely cost us one of our D prospects. Depending on this season, he'll likely cost around 3.5-4m to resign.

Down side, soon to be 33. Hasn't been the most consistent scorer. Being that he'll be 33 this summer, I could see him asking for a longer team deal. I'm not sure I'd want to give him more than 2-3 years. Would that be worth one of our D prospects to acquire him?

KIRK 01-20-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riptide (Post 57947645)
What about Michael Ryder? Multiple 30 goal seasons. UFA this summer. Would likely cost us one of our D prospects. Depending on this season, he'll likely cost around 3.5-4m to resign.

Down side, soon to be 33. Hasn't been the most consistent scorer. Being that he'll be 33 this summer, I could see him asking for a longer team deal. I'm not sure I'd want to give him more than 2-3 years. Would that be worth one of our D prospects to acquire him?

I don't see Dallas moving him, and he wouldn't be atop my list of guys if he were. Not bad, but Shero should be able-- and should-- do better for Sid this time around.

WickedWrister 01-20-2013 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riptide (Post 57947645)
What about Michael Ryder? Multiple 30 goal seasons. UFA this summer. Would likely cost us one of our D prospects. Depending on this season, he'll likely cost around 3.5-4m to resign.

Down side, soon to be 33. Hasn't been the most consistent scorer. Being that he'll be 33 this summer, I could see him asking for a longer team deal. I'm not sure I'd want to give him more than 2-3 years. Would that be worth one of our D prospects to acquire him?

Yeah, I could definitely see Shero doing a deal like that assuming Dallas sucks this year.

Flat Stanley 01-20-2013 02:31 PM

I read a rumor in the summer of 2011 that Shero was going to target Ryder on "a Sykora type of deal", don't know if it was true, he obviously signed with Dallas, I thought he would be a good fit with the Penguins.

Riptide 01-20-2013 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIRK (Post 57947953)
I don't see Dallas moving him, and he wouldn't be atop my list of guys if he were. Not bad, but Shero should be able-- and should-- do better for Sid this time around.

There's a few forwards I'd like to get (ones being attainable/affordable). Kulemin, Seto, Stewart, Ryder, Williams being some of them.

As for whether Dallas would move him... on the Dallas board, they'd want one of our D prospects. And likely only if they're out of it.

mpp9 01-20-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik (Post 57948881)
I read a rumor in the summer of 2011 that Shero was going to target Ryder on "a Sykora type of deal", don't know if it was true, he obviously signed with Dallas, I thought he would be a good fit with the Penguins.

And that's why we didn't get him. The guy had a great playoffs, Shero isn't the GM who's gonna nab him in free agency.

Darth Vitale 01-20-2013 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eXile59 (Post 57940347)
I just want us to be prepared to resign Malkin & Letang in two years. You can't replace those type of players..

You mean this summer / next season... next season is their last under contract and there's no way we'll let them go to FA. They'll either get extended this summer or this fall. And yes I agree with you. Shero should absolutely be conservative against the cap we expect to have the next couple years so there's plenty of room to give Letang a big raise (if we're unable to move Martin) and Geno a modest raise, should he ask for one with the shorter terms in the CBA now.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Riptide (Post 57947645)
What about Michael Ryder? Multiple 30 goal seasons. UFA this summer. Would likely cost us one of our D prospects. Depending on this season, he'll likely cost around 3.5-4m to resign.

Ryder is not really a Shero/Bylsma type player but he's got the tools to help our team in terms of offensive depth. I'm sure he'd look just fine playing next to Sid. Let's put it this way: I would be happier getting someone like Ryder than another 2nd/3rd line tweener like Ponikarovski, or a "seasoned Defensive guy" who is bordering on plug territory, at a cheaper trade cost / hit.

Ship Kennedy and a decent prospect down there for him + 2nd/3rd round pick in this years deep draft, clear Kennedy's $2M hit, Dupuis moves down to line 3 and creates an even tougher 3rd line IMO with the same amount of production.

Kunitz - Sid - Ryder
Tangradi - Geno - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Dupers

2x 2nd or 3rd round picks in the draft... still plenty of cap space going into summer... works for me.

Of course this all assumes Dallas is not in the playoff hunt / a buyer rather than a seller this time around. Pretty big assumption.

Pitt's Best #87 #66 01-20-2013 03:13 PM

I would imagine that at least one of Cooke and Dupuis will re-sign for around the same price unless there is severe decline. They both like Pittsburgh and have young families.

I think the most important thing in the next few years (at least assuming Bennett works out as a good 2nd option) is two guys who can be the 3rd wheel to Malkin and Crosby.

Crafton 01-20-2013 05:56 PM

Kunitz-Crosby-Neal
Kulemin-Malkin-Datsyuk

ColePens 01-20-2013 10:08 PM

What do you guys think of Derek Morris from Phoenix? He's older, but only has 1 year left on his contract. If Phoenix is really ******** the bed and we need a defensive d-man.. I'm intrigued.

I really don't know much about him but watching two Phoenix games he makes some nice hits.

KIRK 01-20-2013 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColePens (Post 57987259)
What do you guys think of Derek Morris from Phoenix? He's older, but only has 1 year left on his contract. If Phoenix is really ******** the bed and we need a defensive d-man.. I'm intrigued.

I really don't know much about him but watching two Phoenix games he makes some nice hits.

Morris is an interesting call. He's not going to make a major impact, of course.

You know, when I look at the limited options for defense, I just think the way to go is to focus on making sure that Sid and Geno go into the playoffs with two good wingers (one second wheel and one third wheel each). Right now, Sid has two third wheels and no prospect of more appropriate help. Geno has a second wheel and a fourth wheel and a small prospect of the fourth wheel becoming a third wheel quickly enough. Then, you add a playoff depth defenseman if need be.

BigBenSF* 01-20-2013 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColePens (Post 57987259)
What do you guys think of Derek Morris from Phoenix? He's older, but only has 1 year left on his contract. If Phoenix is really ******** the bed and we need a defensive d-man.. I'm intrigued.

I really don't know much about him but watching two Phoenix games he makes some nice hits.

I'd bet he would be cheap if Phoenix did mediocre, they have a top of defensive guys coming up next year and I doubt that they are planning to renew his contract next year.

It would take a bit of the load off of Despres, and I think he could do well for us.

BigBenSF* 01-20-2013 11:07 PM

Posted a thread discussing Kulemin on the Leafs board, and offered Maatta + Tangradi + Bortuzzo for him. In my opinion the only player with significant value there is Maatta, Tangradi would be replaced by Kulemin and Bortuzzo will be passed by when our D prospects are ready for the show. As of this post Leafs fans are saying that they would definitely consider it.

Would we do a Kulemin for Maatta+ deal? Let's look at the positives and negatives:

+ We get a 30 goal scorer
+ We get a guy who has chemistry with Malkin
+ Malkin gets his two wingers for the future (a Kulemin-Malkin-Neal line would be amazing)
+ Adding Kulemin gives Malkin more incentive to resign with Pittsburgh

- Lose a possible top 4 defenseman in Maatta
- Lose three possible assets to trade for a winger for Sid
- Never get to see Tangradi's full potential in Pittsburgh


For me, the positives outweigh the negatives.

Would you guys do it?

theicebox 01-20-2013 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBenSF (Post 57992761)
Posted a thread discussing Kulemin on the Leafs board, and offered Maatta + Tangradi + Bortuzzo for him. In my opinion the only player with significant value there is Maatta, Tangradi would be replaced by Kulemin and Bortuzzo will be passed by when our D prospects are ready for the show. As of this post Leafs fans are saying that they would definitely consider it.

Yes, I would do the trade. But you do know that they can also see your post here, you might want to keep the part about Tangradi and Bortuzzo to yourself.

BigBenSF* 01-20-2013 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theicebox (Post 57993665)
Yes, I would do the trade. But you do know that they can also see your post here, you might want to keep the part about Tangradi and Bortuzzo to yourself.

They aren't running the Leafs :sarcasm:

KIRK 01-21-2013 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBenSF (Post 57992761)
Posted a thread discussing Kulemin on the Leafs board, and offered Maatta + Tangradi + Bortuzzo for him. In my opinion the only player with significant value there is Maatta, Tangradi would be replaced by Kulemin and Bortuzzo will be passed by when our D prospects are ready for the show. As of this post Leafs fans are saying that they would definitely consider it.

Would we do a Kulemin for Maatta+ deal? Let's look at the positives and negatives:

+ We get a 30 goal scorer
+ We get a guy who has chemistry with Malkin
+ Malkin gets his two wingers for the future (a Kulemin-Malkin-Neal line would be amazing)
+ Adding Kulemin gives Malkin more incentive to resign with Pittsburgh

- Lose a possible top 4 defenseman in Maatta
- Lose three possible assets to trade for a winger for Sid
- Never get to see Tangradi's full potential in Pittsburgh


For me, the positives outweigh the negatives.

Would you guys do it?

What was the response?

Riptide 01-21-2013 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBenSF (Post 57992761)
Posted a thread discussing Kulemin on the Leafs board, and offered Maatta + Tangradi + Bortuzzo for him. In my opinion the only player with significant value there is Maatta, Tangradi would be replaced by Kulemin and Bortuzzo will be passed by when our D prospects are ready for the show. As of this post Leafs fans are saying that they would definitely consider it.

Would we do a Kulemin for Maatta+ deal? Let's look at the positives and negatives:

+ We get a 30 goal scorer
+ We get a guy who has chemistry with Malkin
+ Malkin gets his two wingers for the future (a Kulemin-Malkin-Neal line would be amazing)
+ Adding Kulemin gives Malkin more incentive to resign with Pittsburgh

- Lose a possible top 4 defenseman in Maatta
- Lose three possible assets to trade for a winger for Sid
- Never get to see Tangradi's full potential in Pittsburgh


For me, the positives outweigh the negatives.

Would you guys do it?

I'd be hesitant to move Bortuzzo before seeing what he can do, I'd rather throw in a mid pick instead. We don't have much size on our blueline (Despres & Bort are the only two above 6-2). Besides, Toronto has a lot of depth D.

BigBenSF* 01-21-2013 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIRK (Post 58004009)
What was the response?

It was varied. Some people asked for Sutter or Morrow, while others thought that my original proposed deal was overpayment for him. Another offer that I was thinking about would be Pouliot + Conditional 2nd for Kulemin + Komisarek (TOR takes partial cap). Might be a bit of overpayment by us, but we already have offensive talent in Morrow and Letang and Komisarek could be a #5 shutdown guy that we'll need playoff time.

SprootsMasterFlex 01-21-2013 01:30 PM

I see the Pens making a deal with Nashville, Toronto, or Minnesota this year.

Nashville: Colin Wilson (since he has potential to do very well in Pitt and he's been in the doghouse in Nsh last year)

Toronto: Kulemin (obvious reasons)

Minnesota: 1 of 2 potential scenarios... a D like Despres for a young winger like Coyle / Zucker... OR a swap involving 1 of our D for Setoguchi.

Riptide 01-21-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex (Post 58020101)
I see the Pens making a deal with Nashville, Toronto, or Minnesota this year.

Nashville: Colin Wilson (since he has potential to do very well in Pitt and he's been in the doghouse in Nsh last year)

Toronto: Kulemin (obvious reasons)

Minnesota: 1 of 2 potential scenarios... a D like Despres for a young winger like Coyle / Zucker... OR a swap involving 1 of our D for Setoguchi.

How about both Kulie and a Minny deal? :naughty:

Shady Machine 01-21-2013 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBenSF (Post 58017901)
It was varied. Some people asked for Sutter or Morrow, while others thought that my original proposed deal was overpayment for him. Another offer that I was thinking about would be Pouliot + Conditional 2nd for Kulemin + Komisarek (TOR takes partial cap). Might be a bit of overpayment by us, but we already have offensive talent in Morrow and Letang and Komisarek could be a #5 shutdown guy that we'll need playoff time.

This makes zero sense. You have no problem trading Maatta (a prospect that many scouts and teams had rated higher than Pouliot), Tangradi and Bortuzzo for Kulemin but you think Pouliot + conditional 2nd for Kulie and Komisarek might be an overpayment? I'm just surprised how you think those 2 offers are remotely similar in value. I would do Pouliot + pick before I'd do the other deal.


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