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-   -   Putting the blame where it belongs (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1328737)

Cin 01-20-2013 10:15 PM

Putting the blame where it belongs
 
It's only two games in, and I'm sure a couple of you will say this is unnecessary so early into a season. The simple fact is that all of these players are being paid millions of dollars to play at a professional level. But is bad play really all on the players shoulders? No.

One major aspect to a lot of the frustrations this team is currently experiencing and experienced last year is down to one thing. Players not being utilized in their correct roles. Now sure, some of these players have to be since we lack a true #1 or even a #2 defenseman. This is a coaching issue.

Tom Wandell has been given plenty of chances to show that he's clearly not a #2 center. Yet, he's in a number 2 role while we've been grooming a younger player (Cody Eakin) to play a top 6 role.

Stephane Robidas is not a #2 defenseman. Neither is Brenden Dillon, however Goligoski can't defend the front of the net to save his life. This isn't just a chemistry issue, it's a complete coaching failure. The defensive pairs this team employs is down right offensive. It's truly a simple formula when you lack the size on the back end that this team does. Puck mover paired with a physical presence who can pass is a decision you make. From there you go down to a Player who can transition well paired with a guy who can block shots. Third pair is up to whatever is left, and the time this pair gets on the ice needs to be limited.

Goligoski-Dillon
Daley-Rome (A Larsen-Daley pair could be argued, however both lack a truly physical element needed when you can't retain the puck)
Robidas-Larsen

The power play is a joke. You can't seriously tell me that the strategy we're employing, or the lines we're putting out have any faith put into them. Its abysmal in every aspect possible. This is 100% coaching. 3 guys to the front of the net? Robidas on the point? Shoot first mentality? No.

Our breakouts blow, and we utilize players in positions on the ice that they don't belong. We have no emergency exit plans for when things don't fall right, and we dump the puck way. Too. Much. Tom Wandell is a perfect example of how we can improve player awareness, and role. Wandell can use his speed to enter the zone, and with more practice, can retain the puck to make either a drop off pass to the point, or a cross ice pass to a winger.

Another situation that happens VERY often, is we'll gain the puck after a failed opposition forecheck, and we have zero options to lay the puck off too. Go back and watch the Minny game and you'll notice Minnesota wingers are on the wall, right by the point waiting for a breakout pass to get the transition going. Why does this happen though? Well for one our forwards clearly don't trust the defense so they all collapse back to try and regain possession. On a well oiled team, either the center or one winger goes back to help put the pressure on and force a turnover. The other two forwards to to make sure the pressure stays on the point, or help out on the wall when the puck is on their side.

We take bad, untimely shots. At least wait for a player to get close to the net in case a rebound can be attained for a scoring chance. Goalie pads are too big to rely on shots from the point now, sorry.

Passing blows. This is a legitimate training camp issue, that SHOULD be resolved over time.

I'm pretty close to passing some blame onto GMJoe. He's got a trade deadline and a free agency period to prove he really has a legitimate view for this team that isn't small, weak, and "tough to play against".

You've traded away a pure goal scorer (One of the best in the league at sniping) for a #4 "puck-moving defenseman".

You've failed to capitalize on gaining any sort of value back from a superstar in this league (Brad Richards) Did he have a no trade? Absolutely. Could you tell he didn't want to play here? Absolutely. Did the possibility exist that we couldn't trade him? Yep. Doesn't mean you just put %100000000000 faith in him "seeing the vision we have for the team". Get some ****ing value back, if at all possible.

Showed VERY little faith in your farm system, when there are plenty of examples around the league where playing younger players is actually a future trend that will take over. 18 year olds are now a part of today's NHL. Like it or not, that's the trend, and it's where we're heading. So put some faith in your scouting staff (Hard to do, I know) and call up some actual promising players. 5 bad games isn't going to demoralize and kill a players growth. If it happens, you send them back down for more conditioning.

Let me guess though... It's only 2 games Cin! Show some faith, we've got a new owner :D
I get it. It's time to hold people accountable though. Players and staff alike. We need to make this season the start of something great, and yeah it's getting there with the prospects we've got coming through the system.

This thread is for comprehensive debate about the Front office, systems we employ, and coaching decisions. It's also for those of you in Dallas with the organization that I know read the forum. Listen to the people who watch every single thing the team does. We may not have NHL experience, but it's not hard to see ****, when it smells like it.

Bring on the heat.

Stars99Lobo37 01-20-2013 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cin (Post 57987909)
You've failed to capitalize on gaining any sort of value back from a superstar in this league (Brad Richards) Did he have a no trade? Absolutely. Could you tell he didn't want to play here? Absolutely. Did the possibility exist that we couldn't trade him? Yep.

You do realize we had a trade with New York ready to go until Richards blocked it right?

Cin 01-20-2013 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 (Post 57988213)
You do realize we had a trade with New York ready to go until Richards blocked it right?

I thought that was just rumor? If so then scratch it off the list. Although I'm sure it wasn't enough value coming back anyways.

Stars99Lobo37 01-20-2013 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cin (Post 57988877)
I thought that was just rumor? If so then scratch it off the list. Although I'm sure it wasn't enough value coming back anyways.

Richards admitted during an article last year (like in October or November) with Brooks that he did cause he didn't want the Rangers to be worse off when he got there during the off season.

Cin 01-20-2013 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 (Post 57988993)
Richards admitted during an article last year (like in October or November) with Brooks that he did cause he didn't want the Rangers to be worse off when he got there during the off season.

Oh wow, **** him.

LatvianTwist 01-20-2013 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 (Post 57988993)
Richards admitted during an article last year (like in October or November) with Brooks that he did cause he didn't want the Rangers to be worse off when he got there during the off season.

Huge **** move IMO.

FrailSwan 01-20-2013 11:04 PM

Wooooooooow I had no idea he said that. What a d!*k. THE SORE SPOT IS NO MORE!

Arkham32 01-20-2013 11:09 PM

If were panicking this early while being .500 I wonder whats happening in Vancouver and Philadelphia lol

Modo 01-20-2013 11:10 PM

Damn, lost a ton of respect for Richards for a **** move like that. Wow.

MetalGodAOD 01-20-2013 11:11 PM

Quote:

Showed VERY little faith in your farm system, when there are plenty of examples around the league where playing younger players is actually a future trend that will take over. 18 year olds are now a part of today's NHL. Like it or not, that's the trend, and it's where we're heading. So put some faith in your scouting staff (Hard to do, I know) and call up some actual promising players. 5 bad games isn't going to demoralize and kill a players growth. If it happens, you send them back down for more conditioning.
I don't think this is on Joe. They brought up 5 players from the AHL this season. It's on Gully to use them correctly..

BTW, Fiddler-Nystrom has been slowly losing minutes over these past 2 games. The Eakin line is becoming the 3rd line based on play alone.

FrailSwan 01-20-2013 11:11 PM

If Vancouver goes 0-3 who knows what'll happen.

Arkham32 01-20-2013 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrailSwan (Post 57993035)
If Vancouver goes 0-3 who knows what'll happen.

Probably this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmHYSD7k9gY

Stars99Lobo37 01-20-2013 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrailSwan (Post 57993035)
If Vancouver goes 0-3 who knows what'll happen.

Lots of riots.

FrailSwan 01-20-2013 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MANN99 (Post 57993273)

So we will definitely see people running in the streets screaming "**** Boston!" :laugh:

Troy McClure 01-20-2013 11:35 PM

Let's not get too hung up on the 3rd round pick Richards would have brought in if he hadn't negated that trade.

The blame for any problems still falls on Tom Hicks. His failures directly caused this playoff drought by forcing the team to conduct itself like a small market team.

Now, he's not solely to blame. Any shortcomings on the roster also falls on the pretty poor drafting of the last several GMs. Before you say it, I know people are excited about the potential of a few guys in the AHL and juniors. I hope they are awesome, but we'll have to see. The d corps may suck, and that's entirely the result of the team missing on pick after pick back there. There were lots of high picks spent on d-men, and those guys all turned out to be middling NHLers, which is a shame. Bad drafting leads to thin rosters.

Frozen Failure 01-20-2013 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrailSwan (Post 57993035)
If Vancouver goes 0-3 who knows what'll happen.

Step 1: Ballard+ for Robidas+.
Step 2: Luongo for youth to Toronto for Frattin and some salary.

Anyway.

We need a better veteran D man back there. Morrow is doing a pretty decent job in the bottom 6, far better than Fiddler and Nystrom.

We need to put the blame on whoever is making the decision to actually try this season rather than just trial by fire the youngins'. Sceviour should play. R Smith should play up. We can't have a top line of veterans because they WILL wear down. Spread the legs around, Gully.


E2: Dur forgot Whitney is a LW.

Whitney - Eakin - Ryder
R Smith - Roy - Jagr
Morrow - Sceviour - Eriksson
<rest of dudes>

Obviously mix and match your wingers as needed. Eriksson can play either wing, as far as I know. But Jagr, Whitney, Eriksson and R Smith can probably rotate through on ice time.

Robidas needs to get plunged down the lineup. Rome won't help us, honestly, but he'll bring some physicality to the backend. Ultimately we need a guy like... Oleksiak to play with Goligoski.

Dillon's not at #2 playing capacity. As far as I can tell he's still nervous as hell, but I agree that Goligoski - D man taller than 6'2" would be ideal.

Daley-Larsen would be interesting since Larsen seems to be a man possessed and Daley looks really good this year (I am not a Daley fan usually).

That leaves Benn, Rome, and Robiduh.

Hull Fan 01-21-2013 12:02 AM

Robidas should never see another power play minute.

Wandell doesn't have a place on this team. With a plethora of small forwards who struggle with puck battles mixed with a small defense his "skills" are a detriment. If he can't play as a legit top six center (which he isn't) then Wandell needs to be moved out. Puck battles, transition, and passing he's not that great at any of it and for a team that looks like it's going to struggle to generate offense outside of it's first line he lacks the physical tools to play further down the lineup. Despite the fact that they didn't score the Smith-Eakin-Garbutt line cycled, generated shots, and forced Minnesota to play in their end. Wandell's line didn't do much of that and other teams are going to match up either their physical group or their skill and Dallas will be at a disadvantage.

Robidas and Goligoski as a pair just doesn't work. Down low in their zone they get eaten alive. Minnesota pushed them all over the ice and won every battle.

Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom was invisible and not workable. Switching out Morrow for Smith may not be enough. Can we just cut Fiddler and put Sceviour out there already?

Ryder needs to do better. Jagr alone can't carry this team.

I've seen the future and I'll take Bachman for a 5th at the deadine right this minute. Nhilstrop was absolutely fantastic.

Daley was one of the few who could skate the puck in the zone but good lord does offense die on his transition past the opposition blue line. Robidas is a much bigger problem, as is Benn but Daley isn't part of an upper echelon defense in this league.

We're the old guys and the kids team and that's at least a step in the right direction in comparison to the last few years but this roster still needs work and unfortunately those kids are going to have to play with all the ups and downs that only experience teaches. I hope this 48 game schedule is enough to give those guys this opportunity because right now this still isn't a playoff team no matter how good Jagr still is. But at least the kids are going to get a good example from him and Whitney.

LatvianTwist 01-21-2013 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Failure (Post 57995083)
Whitney - Eakin - Ryder
R Smith - Roy - Jagr
Morrow - Sceviour - Eriksson
<rest of dudes>

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 57996193)
I've seen the future and I'll take Bachman for a 5th at the deadine right this minute. Nhilstrop was absolutely fantastic.

http://thelegalchase.files.wordpress..._1280x1024.jpg

Let's just be optimistic and say Benn signs tomorrow.

Eriksson - Roy - Jagr (Why break up what looks to be working so well?)
Whitney - Benn - Ryder (Process of elimination with top 6 forwards)
R. Smith - Eakin - Sceviour (Garbutt isn't working on this line IMO, he's not bad but doesn't belong. Sceviour at least deserves the shot, if not call up Vincour)
Morrow - Fiddler - Nystrom (Has looked at least serviceable so far)
Wandell (I like him but he really doesn't have a place anymore)

Our defense is a more pressing matter. At this point, I'd toss Robidas for whatever the hell I can get for him. Gogo too, but GMJN won't trade him after the extension and there's a tad bit of hope for him.

Dillon - Larsen (Has been our best pairing and I think they'll only get better)
Goligoski - Benn (A PMD and a guy willing to hit with decent skill? Why not try it? I doubt it works but it can't be worse than Gogo - Robi)
Daley - Rome (Only guys left)

Goalies are more than good at this point, both have looked stellar and we know what Bachman can do.

Again though, let's try not to get all doom and gloom. We're two games in FFS.

And trading Bachman right now is god-awful asset management. Nilstrop's played one game in the NHL for god's sake.

Cin 01-21-2013 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 57996193)
Robidas should never see another power play minute.

Wandell doesn't have a place on this team. With a plethora of small forwards who struggle with puck battles mixed with a small defense his "skills" are a detriment. If he can't play as a legit top six center (which he isn't) then Wandell needs to be moved out. Puck battles, transition, and passing he's not that great at any of it and for a team that looks like it's going to struggle to generate offense outside of it's first line he lacks the physical tools to play further down the lineup. Despite the fact that they didn't score the Smith-Eakin-Garbutt line cycled, generated shots, and forced Minnesota to play in their end. Wandell's line didn't do much of that and other teams are going to match up either their physical group or their skill and Dallas will be at a disadvantage.

Robidas and Goligoski as a pair just doesn't work. Down low in their zone they get eaten alive. Minnesota pushed them all over the ice and won every battle.

Morrow-Fiddler-Nystrom was invisible and not workable. Switching out Morrow for Smith may not be enough. Can we just cut Fiddler and put Sceviour out there already?

Ryder needs to do better. Jagr alone can't carry this team.

I've seen the future and I'll take Bachman for a 5th at the deadine right this minute. Nhilstrop was absolutely fantastic.

Daley was one of the few who could skate the puck in the zone but good lord does offense die on his transition past the opposition blue line. Robidas is a much bigger problem, as is Benn but Daley isn't part of an upper echelon defense in this league.

We're the old guys and the kids team and that's at least a step in the right direction in comparison to the last few years but this roster still needs work and unfortunately those kids are going to have to play with all the ups and downs that only experience teaches. I hope this 48 game schedule is enough to give those guys this opportunity because right now this still isn't a playoff team no matter how good Jagr still is. But at least the kids are going to get a good example from him and Whitney.

What the hell? Bachman is worth WAYYYYY more than that. He's a number 1 right now, and I'll argue that with anybody all day. Plays with the same composure as Carey Price, has great reflexes, and he stays in the net. Bachman over Campbell in the future for me, and tons of other GM's would take the same as well.

View Bachman as a Schneider or a Rask. He's damn good, and a 5th is just ridiculous.

Nihlstorp is also 28... So yeah. No.

Stars99Lobo37 01-21-2013 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cin (Post 57997199)
What the hell? Bachman is worth WAYYYYY more than that. He's a number 1 right now, and I'll argue that with anybody all day.

Wow....

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s...awayanswer.gif

Cin 01-21-2013 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stars99Lobo37 (Post 57997331)

Only been watching him since he's been at CC. Perhaps you forgot about how well he performed last season when Kari was injured.

LatvianTwist 01-21-2013 12:39 AM

Bachman needs to prove that before we ask for that price. I think he can do it, but won't say that he's at that level now.

Frozen Failure 01-21-2013 12:39 AM

A #1 in the AHL. :sarcasm:

I agree he's worth more than a 5th, but the current goalie market makes an impending UFA with 20 odd NHL games pretty worthless.

And LT, you have no room to JackieChan-meme my suggestion that we spread out the young game ready legs.

LatvianTwist 01-21-2013 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Failure (Post 57997529)
A #1 in the AHL. :sarcasm:

I agree he's worth more than a 5th, but the current goalie market makes an impending UFA with 20 odd NHL games pretty worthless.

And LT, you have no room to JackieChan-meme my suggestion that we spread out the young game ready legs.

That was more at Eriksson on the 3rd line than anything. Whatever line he's on is pretty much always the 1st, that's how it's been for the past 4-5 years.

Hull Fan 01-21-2013 12:41 AM

Lobo just said it for me. Bachman is a nice backup and that has value, ie 5th round or so. He's too small and unless his rebound control has morphed into something phenomenal this off season he's not a No. 1 goaltender.

Nilstorp isn't going to replace Lehtonen and the future comment was a focus on backups but give me the bigger athletic guy verses the smaller one every day. Nilstorp is going to have to continue to prove it but between the two I think you have blinders on as to Bachman's deficiencies.


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