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-   -   Proposal: The "Trade _______ Right ******* NOW" Thread (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1328991)

RedMenace 01-21-2013 08:18 AM

The "Trade _______ Right ******* NOW" Thread
 
Instead of cluttering up the board with "We need to trade ____ for ____ " and "This team needs to be blown up" threads, why not just put all of the proposals in one place?

redjax 01-21-2013 08:29 AM

This will be the saddest, angriest thread since that one from yesterday. Ya know, all of them.

We need to change the lines/pairings and maybe call-up someone(s) before we overreact.

But that's boring.

I think we could have a pretty exciting top two lines and an OKish bottom two if Babcock would be willing to make some adjustments and call-ups, and when some people get healthy.

I don't think we need to blow up anything yet, especially with a top 10 prospect pool. Which prospect would you want to trade to get someone? Believe it or not, other GMs aren't going to just accept a poo-poo platter.

WingedWheel1987 01-21-2013 08:57 AM

There is nobody the Wings can trade for that will fix the numerous problems this team has.

Play as many rookies as possible and see if you find anything good. This season was DOA the moment Holland struck out on Suter and thought Kyle Quincey could play defense. Bring up Lashoff and see how he looks. He can't look any worse than Quncey.

We also have to remember that Holland isn't going to do a big trade. He probably won't do a small one either. Ken Holland isn't going to change his archaic philosophy anytime soon.

It took four years to create this team. You can't undo something like that with one or or even three trades.

P U L L H A R D 01-21-2013 09:14 AM

I read a stat that said Holland hasn't traded a regular roster player (a guy who had played 82 games for us in prior years) since 2002 (might have the season wrong, but in that time frame), and it was Jason Williams. If it has been nearly a decade since Holland made a swap of players, maybe it is time to try again? :D

RedMenace 01-21-2013 09:47 AM

I know people who say "wait until next season" get railed upon, but seriously, of all the years to say that, this year* would be the one.

The Wings' 100-point season streak will end, the Playoff streak might end, and teams that are loaded this year* are likely going to have cap issues next year; I really think we, as calm, rational, clear-he.... BAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA -- sorry, couldn't keep that together -- fans should wait to see what next year brings before calling for heads.

Basically, I'm saying this year* is a throw-away year.

Honestly, it really all depends on who buys out whom this off-season, because the Wings will have a metric crap-tonne of money to throw at FAs to flesh out the roster, and I don't have any doubts that Holland will actually spend some money now that the CBA mess is over with.

Henkka 01-21-2013 10:08 AM

First of all, we have to suck for a long period (half a season), before we start making bigger moves.

Yeah, we lost yesterday and looked bad against extremely strong Stanley Cup candidate, but our game is missing stability. We have to play to learn those new routines almost every guy has in this years team. That short training camo really hurt us, it's easier to start with run-and-gun style for those kind of teams. Our puck posession needs timing and chemistry more than ever, because there's so many guys in new duties.

We have to play and adjust, then we see if we can win and win enough. Let them play 20 games and then see where we are. If we are out of the playoff race, I don't think it's a big deal for Holland after that to bring some kids up.

But bringing those kids up right does not solve this team problem. It just hurts building those chemistries. We have to solve these problems with current guys.

Let's see what happens. Be patient. If the sky is gonna fall, then it falls. But we have to give some time for the team. There's too much talent in this team to be that bad.

Winger98 01-21-2013 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMenace (Post 58007505)
Basically, I'm saying this year* is a throw-away year.

Which would have made it that much better of a year to find spots for Nyquist and Tatar. Even if we're in the playoff picture, I wouldn't mind to see a few trades made to open up spots for those two. Get them some experience now, so maybe they're ready to contribute a bit more next year.

RedMenace 01-21-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winger98 (Post 58008485)
Which would have made it that much better of a year to find spots for Nyquist and Tatar. Even if we're in the playoff picture, I wouldn't mind to see a few trades made to open up spots for those two. Get them some experience now, so maybe they're ready to contribute a bit more next year.

I just can't agree with that; I'd rather they stay in Grand Rapids, dominate on a 1st line, and have a good shot at going deep into the playoffs than have them get beat up on and potentially lose confidence in Detroit.

Henkka 01-21-2013 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMenace (Post 58008799)
I just can't agree with that; I'd rather they stay in Grand Rapids, dominate on a 1st line, and have a good shot at going deep into the playoffs than have them get beat up on and potentially lose confidence in Detroit.

I see it same way. Their better be there, play winning hockey at lead that team to playoffs, so they can go get some playoff experience. I wouldn't count out a possibility for AHL Championship. The Griffins are just so great and they could get Ouellet and Sproul there before the season end to even strengthen it.

If we took Tatar and Nyquist out from there, they could get some games of NHL experience, but at the same time Griffins could fall out of the AHL playoffs. Then if there's no NHL or AHL playoffs for Nyquist and Tatar, that's the worst possible thing that can happen.

Winger98 01-21-2013 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMenace (Post 58008799)
I just can't agree with that; I'd rather they stay in Grand Rapids, dominate on a 1st line, and have a good shot at going deep into the playoffs than have them get beat up on and potentially lose confidence in Detroit.

They're not kids, and both got top6 minutes last year. If they're going to step in and wilt, I'm not sure another year in GR would change that. I also don't think another year in GR will lessen the learning curve or the ups and downs of their rookie seasons.

If they were 18 year olds making the jump from some junior league, I'd agree with you. But Nyquist is 23 and excelled in a full season at GR last year, and Tatar's 22 with three full seasons playing against men in the AHL under his belt. These guys are ready.

RedWingsNow* 01-21-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMenace (Post 58008799)
I just can't agree with that; I'd rather they stay in Grand Rapids, dominate on a 1st line, and have a good shot at going deep into the playoffs than have them get beat up on and potentially lose confidence in Detroit.


So even when you say it's a throw away year, you think our AHLers should play in the minors until they are 24 so that our 37 year olds can play through our "throw away year."


Newsflash. You can call up Nyquist and play him on the top line.
BREAKING NEWS: You can call up Tatar and play him on line 2.

FACT: Check out the stats of the top 10 point rookie point getters in the NHL for the past 5 years,
Many of them accomplished far less in the AHL than Nyquist and Tatar.

You're hanging on to some silly idea about dominating in the AHL because either a) you're trying to defend Holland or b) You're locked into your position and saying anything you can think of to defend your weak argument.

Heaton 01-21-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winger98 (Post 58010369)
They're not kids, and both got top6 minutes last year. If they're going to step in and wilt, I'm not sure another year in GR would change that. I also don't think another year in GR will lessen the learning curve or the ups and downs of their rookie seasons.

If they were 18 year olds making the jump from some junior league, I'd agree with you. But Nyquist is 23 and excelled in a full season at GR last year, and Tatar's 22 with three full seasons playing against men in the AHL under his belt. These guys are ready.

Let me preface this by saying I do not agree with how Holland has constructed this roster. But it seems like Holland is more worried about overall depth and has been since 2009 when he sent down Helm, Leino and Ericsson. Holland believes that if he doesn't sign the Bertuzzi's and Samuelsson's while keeping Nyquist and Tatar in the minors that he runs the risk of having an injury and not having a suitable replacement available.

But Holland is way behind the times here and I believe it's all on Holland - Babcock wants these guys up but he's got the 35+ club as his only real choice. No other team is doing this, every other team is getting the most out of their kids contractually and skill wise. Philly plays 18 year olds and so does Pittsburgh. Holland's system was great pre-cap - not so much anymore.

Harnessed in Slums 01-21-2013 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henkka (Post 58009773)
I see it same way. Their better be there, play winning hockey at lead that team to playoffs, so they can go get some playoff experience. I wouldn't count out a possibility for AHL Championship. The Griffins are just so great and they could get Ouellet and Sproul there before the season end to even strengthen it.

If we took Tatar and Nyquist out from there, they could get some games of NHL experience, but at the same time Griffins could fall out of the AHL playoffs. Then if there's no NHL or AHL playoffs for Nyquist and Tatar, that's the worst possible thing that can happen.

If there is a true Silver Lining (heh) it's the Griffins finally being a very good AHL team stocked with DRW talent and being coached by a coach who is familiar with Babcock's coaching style. While I do want to begin building up the nucleus of the DRW post Lids, Homer, Mule and Dats, if we are going to be as bad as I suspect we will - small sample size, I know - then I'd rather suck really badly and have a good shot at getting Seth Jones. On the one hand Nyquist and Tatar could make the Wings better which would be good. However if that simply makes them good enough to lock down the 10th seed and miss both the playoffs and a shot at drafting at elite talent then it's probably better to let them continue to dominate in the A.

icKx 01-21-2013 11:09 AM

Should have given up Hudler and E/Kindl for Bogosian when we had the chance.

Heaton 01-21-2013 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icKx (Post 58011285)
Should have given up Hudler and E/Kindl for Bogosian when we had the chance.

What makes you think that would've been accepted?

ProPAIN 01-21-2013 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icKx (Post 58011285)
Should have given up Hudler and E/Kindl for Bogosian when we had the chance.

If Atlanta or Winnipeg now would've accepted that trade, they might as well just shut down the franchise.

Zetterberg4Captain 01-21-2013 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabricoh (Post 58010799)
If there is a true Silver Lining (heh) it's the Griffins finally being a very good AHL team stocked with DRW talent and being coached by a coach who is familiar with Babcock's coaching style. While I do want to begin building up the nucleus of the DRW post Lids, Homer, Mule and Dats, if we are going to be as bad as I suspect we will - small sample size, I know - then I'd rather suck really badly and have a good shot at getting Seth Jones. On the one hand Nyquist and Tatar could make the Wings better which would be good. However if that simply makes them good enough to lock down the 10th seed and miss both the playoffs and a shot at drafting at elite talent then it's probably better to let them continue to dominate in the A.

i do not think we will finish in the lottery pick range, but rather in the 7-9 seed in the west

RedWingsNow* 01-21-2013 11:18 AM

Say you never signed Sammy and Bert.
You're still rolling with

Cleary Datsyuk Nyquist
Fanzen Zetterberg Brunner
Tatar Flip Tootoo
Miller Helm Mursak
Emmerton/Eaves

When you have injuries you can call up Sheahan, Andersson, Ferraro
Or if you don't think they're ready...
You head to the UFA market or you make a trade.

icKx 01-21-2013 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heaton (Post 58011425)
What makes you think that would've been accepted?

That and a 1st was the rumored asking price two years ago.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=883428

It's not inconceivable for 2011. Obviously his stock has risen considerably.

Harnessed in Slums 01-21-2013 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icKx (Post 58011797)
That and a 1st was the rumored asking price two years ago.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=883428

It's not inconceivable for 2011. Obviously his stock has risen considerably.

Yeah, it was a pretty easy call to make back then. If Holland isn't going to pull the trigger on that deal he will probably never engage in another significant trade in the future. The salary cap has killed any interest in trading roster players. I suspect these types of trades will never happen so long as Holland is GM.

Winger98 01-21-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heaton (Post 58010629)
Let me preface this by saying I do not agree with how Holland has constructed this roster. But it seems like Holland is more worried about overall depth and has been since 2009 when he sent down Helm, Leino and Ericsson. Holland believes that if he doesn't sign the Bertuzzi's and Samuelsson's while keeping Nyquist and Tatar in the minors that he runs the risk of having an injury and not having a suitable replacement available.

But Holland is way behind the times here and I believe it's all on Holland - Babcock wants these guys up but he's got the 35+ club as his only real choice. No other team is doing this, every other team is getting the most out of their kids contractually and skill wise. Philly plays 18 year olds and so does Pittsburgh. Holland's system was great pre-cap - not so much anymore.

agree or disagree with Holland doing it, I think that's most likely Holland's line of thinking. And I think it's behind the times a bit, too.

I'm wondering where Nill is falling in this argument. We know where Babcock stands from the occasional comment he drops. We know where Holland stands because of how the team is shaped. Nill flies under the radar, though. If Nill vocally sides with Babcock, I'm not sure what drives Holland to disagree with both of them. If he throws his support the other way, we have to wonder if anything would change under either of them. Or Nill keeps quiet, not wanting to rock the boat - which might be the option I'm the least fan of.

Brick Top 01-21-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedMenace (Post 58008799)
I just can't agree with that; I'd rather they stay in Grand Rapids, dominate on a 1st line, and have a good shot at going deep into the playoffs than have them get beat up on and potentially lose confidence in Detroit.

I don't think you can shelter your prospects forever (well, it's possible that KH feels differently, but anyway...). They have years of productive experience in the AHL, are familiar with the expectations for Wings players, and skating circles around AHL competition while waiting for their chance to move up.

Plenty of smaller players have success in the league (Marty St Louis comes to mind) and there a lot of smaller young guys who are playing important minutes for their teams now (Eberle and Hagelin). The Wings have elite talent that Nyquist and Tatar could learn from this year, and tbh, if a rough year for the Wings shattered their development as players, I wouldn't want them on the team anyway.

Better to find out what the Wings have in these guys, as they look to the future. I think they HAVE to bring some quality size to their top 6 some time soon, so there will be limited spots for all of these talented forward prospects that we have hopes for. Maybe seeing both of them in the NHL this year provides a showcase that can increase trade value for one of them.

Flowah 01-21-2013 11:29 AM

Can we stop throwing this around?

1. It's terrible terrible logic.

2. It's just stupid.

probertrules24 01-21-2013 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henkka (Post 58008361)
First of all, we have to suck for a long period (half a season), before we start making bigger moves.

Yeah, we lost yesterday and looked bad against extremely strong Stanley Cup candidate, but our game is missing stability. We have to play to learn those new routines almost every guy has in this years team. That short training camo really hurt us, it's easier to start with run-and-gun style for those kind of teams. Our puck posession needs timing and chemistry more than ever, because there's so many guys in new duties.

We have to play and adjust, then we see if we can win and win enough. Let them play 20 games and then see where we are. If we are out of the playoff race, I don't think it's a big deal for Holland after that to bring some kids up.

But bringing those kids up right does not solve this team problem. It just hurts building those chemistries. We have to solve these problems with current guys.

Let's see what happens. Be patient. If the sky is gonna fall, then it falls. But we have to give some time for the team. There's too much talent in this team to be that bad.

Henkka this is not the place for sound logic. Cut that out right now.

Kiddington 01-21-2013 12:18 PM

nevermind


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