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-   -   Value of: Joe Thornton to FLA (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1329771)

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 03:18 AM

Joe Thornton to FLA
 
What would it take to get Joe Thornton in Florida during the off season? This is my first time making a thread so go easy on me. :laugh: I figure a team potentially wouldnt give up too much. He'd have 1 year left on his contract before becoming an unrestricted free agent, a cap hit of 7mil, and hasnt scored over 21G in over 3 years (although he's not there to score goals as much as he's there to create them for others). If Florida is having a difficult time with weiss in the off season and/or is asking for more than tallon is willing to spend on him i thought we start with weiss's rights and go from there. i'm sure that SJ fans wouldnt want to trade thornton but couture looks like he can for sure be the #1 center, and weiss would make a great 2nd line center and a cheaper option than thornton. SJ's cap hit is pretty large and with the cap coming down next year shedding some cap wouldnt hurt.

the rights to Weiss + 2nd '14 + Bergenheim/Petrovic

is that far off, close, you tell me, give me a feel for where thorntons value would be in the offseason. not trying to low ball or anything, just dont know where his value is at. i'd love to have thornton and bjugstad as our top 2 centers next season. and since sj may want to shed cap in a deal like this, but would still have to sign weiss, i feel like theyd prefer a higher end prospect than bergenheim (and the 2nd is in '14 because i dont think we have one in '13). you'd be able to run:

Marleau-Couture-Pavelski
Clowe-Weiss-Havlat

whether or not that proposal is anywhere near realistic, what would it take to get Thornton in FLA in the offseason?

SCinSJ 01-22-2013 03:29 AM

Well... at least you spelled his name right...

DrSanchez 01-22-2013 03:35 AM

Thornton has an NTC and probably won't be waiving it (he just built a house here, etc). Sharks would be more likely to trade Boyle if they needed to shed cap quickly.

UFA rights have barely any value at all. Why would Weiss re-sign with us? So you're basically offering a second and a spare part for a 1st-line center? Even with one year on a contract, that's peanuts.

Mafoofoo 01-22-2013 03:35 AM

Couture won't be our #1C if that happened. Plus we aren't trading our best player and captain.

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 03:40 AM

this is more to find the value rather than the proposal i put, the proposal was nothing more than a reference point to see if that was close value or not. this is also under the assumption that SJ would need to clear some cap space and that weiss would sign there. bergenheim is a great player and petrovic is a high end D prospect so i wouldnt exactly say "spare parts", its not skille or anything, maybe if the 2nd was changed to a 1st would it be any closer? again, not trying to low ball or affend anyone, dont want to anger people :laugh: just kicking the tires is all. if SJ has no interest in trading him, fair enough, i was just curious.

rgb63 01-22-2013 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrolikFan67 (Post 58069777)
bergenheim is a great player and petrovic is a high end D prospect so i wouldnt exactly say "spare parts"

Come on now. Bergenheim's career high is 29 points in 80 games. If he is a "great player," I would hate to know who your average player is.

boredmale 01-22-2013 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrolikFan67 (Post 58069625)
What would it take to get Joe Thornton in Florida during the off season?

The first thing it will take is for the San Jose Sharks to decide the roster they have won't win a Stanley Cup anytime soon so they decide to go on a youth movement. The second thing would be the Panthers would have to give them a package of youngsters to make the deal work

I don't see #1 happening to be honest but if it does Florida has the assets for the second part of that but I am not sure they would be inclined to trade them

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 03:58 AM

I didn't mean he's a top line talent, all I meant was that he's a solid, serviceable player, not just some 4th line scrub throw-in. He's a perfect 3rd line winger who can play on the 2nd if he needs to, he did for us last season and I was very happy with him. You already have marleau, pavelski, havlat, and clowe as your wingers, would the deal be better if it involved kulikov instead of Weiss?

rgb63 01-22-2013 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrolikFan67 (Post 58069879)
would the deal be better if it involved kulikov instead of Weiss?

In the off season, Weiss has no value beyond a mid-late round draft choice.

TheJuxtaposer 01-22-2013 04:12 AM

Ha. Ha. Ha. I love how you premise the thread with "I figure teams aren't going to give up much for him" because he "hasn't scored more than 21 goals in 3 years". But you don't mention that in those three years he's scored 20, 19, and 20 goals. And besides that, Thornton isn't a goal-scorer, he's a top-5 playmaker in the league, and you don't judge those by their goals. :rolleyes:

Probably the worst proposal I've seen for Joe in a long time. A UFA, a B prospect or below average 3rd liner, and a 2nd round pick in two years? Are you kidding?

IF the Sharks moved Joe, their captain and best player, it would signal that the franchise is going into a rebuild.

IF the franchise were to rebuild, they would not trade their captain and best player for a 3rd liner/B prospect, 2nd rounder in two years, and a UFA.

They would demand Huberdeau++.

(As an aside, if Thornton were traded, Marleau, not Couture, would be our best center).

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 04:13 AM

So would kulikov + shore + bergeneim + 2nd '14 be more realistic? Again, i don't know what the value would be. You tell me. This is all hypothetical anyways. just for fun.

Man in the Mirror 01-22-2013 04:16 AM

bjugstad, grimaldi, 1st

TheJuxtaposer 01-22-2013 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrolikFan67 (Post 58069967)
So would kulikov + shore + bergeneim + 2nd '14 be more realistic? Again, i don't know what the value would be. You tell me. This is all hypothetical anyways. just for fun.

Significantly closer, but the Sharks have Burns and Vlasic as relatively young top-tier defensemen, with other kids like Braun, Demers, Irwin, Petrecki, and Tennyson on the cusp of the NHL. Outside of Couture and Hertl, they have no youth at forward. IF the Sharks traded Joe, it would be for a high-end young forward, with quality being more important than quantity.

Hertl Power 01-22-2013 04:18 AM

You are greatly overvaluing the worth of Weiss and Berganheim, while not considering you are trading for one of the best 10 centers in the game even with his points being down in the last few years. UFA rights are worth at most a 5th round pick, and since you are trading the rights for before free agency to start why should the sharks wait a year to get a pick? Any team in the league would beat this package and gladly because you are trying to rip the sharks off horribly with this deal.

The only peice on the Panthers that would get me interested would be Huberdeau and personally I still value Thornton over him so you would have to add.

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 04:20 AM

@thejuxtaposer

Easy now, it's reasons like that why I've never made a thread on this site. I thought he'd have less value than he apparently has, because of the cap hit, the 1 yr left before being a ufa, etc. and once more, this isn't a proposal thread, it's a value of, tell me what you'd want. You couldve just said "I think you're way off here, it's probably take a package like this to do it". I immediately regret making this :laugh:

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 04:24 AM

Ok, well at least I got a little closer with the 2nd proposal lol the 1st one was a starting point, whether it was close or not, and then work from there to get to workable deal.

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 04:27 AM

How about bjugstad + bergenheim + 1st? Better?

TheJuxtaposer 01-22-2013 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrolikFan67 (Post 58070017)
@thejuxtaposed

Easy now, it's reasons like that why I've never made a thread on this site. I thought he'd have less value than he apparently has, because of the cap hit, the 1 yr left before being a ufa, etc. and once more, this isn't a proposal thread, it's a value of, tell me what you'd want. You couldve just said "I think you're way off here, it's probably take a package like this to do it". I immediately regret making this :laugh:

I think you are way off here, it'd probably take a package like Huberdeau and your first rounder this year to get the Sharks interested.

I understand that on the East Coast, it's hard to get an appreciation of how good players in the West are. But we value Thornton like Detroit values Datsyuk, Vancouver values H. Sedin, etc. He is a point per game offensive player, who's great defensively, on special teams, in the faceoff circle, etc. There aren't many players like that in the league. He may be 33, but he's the type of player who will be playing at a high level when he's 40. He's our captain, second longest tenured player, and the face of this franchise. He's invaluable to us.

I understand that you didn't mean to offend us, but when you offer relative scraps for the player I just described, you're not going to get cheerful answers.

MasterDecoy 01-22-2013 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrolikFan67 (Post 58070063)
How about bjugstad + bergenheim + 1st? Better?

not bad.

san jose isn't rebuilding though, and trading joe for futures is a rebuild move

ShootIt 01-22-2013 05:31 AM

Value? Too much for Florida to be interested anymore.

Not like Florida is one piece away from doing some damage.

Big Joe would be a great addition, but, till the team around him is fully mature, he'll be not so dominate. JMO

Oates2Neely 01-22-2013 06:18 AM

Huberdeau ++

Or Bgustad +++

OP offer very weak.

roboninja 01-22-2013 07:14 AM

Don't even try, FLA. You will pay way more than he is worth.

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 08:06 AM

yea if it were to involve kulikov i could see something maybe from florida's side, but if it involves huberdeau or bjugstad i think we just keep the kids and build with them. but thats fine, i was just kicking the tires, just trying to see where his value is at. i can see sj has no interest in parting with him and that hes very important to your team. i just thought with the cap coming down next year, and couture having the ability to center the 1st (i thought at least), i thought thornton was more expendable than i thought. i thought weiss (if he were guaranteed to sign there before he hits fa) would serve as a cheaper alternative, with bergenheim a solid 3rd liner or a top D prospect in petrovic added with a pick would at leat get talks started but i can see im way off. i didnt know. but thats fine, im sure he'll resign there for several more years and continue to play very well for them. now i know where the value is at, thanks :)

Falco5 01-22-2013 09:16 AM

The problem here is that you are looking at it like the sharks are trading 1 year of Thornton. He is their captain and all signs point to him wanting to remain in san jose for the rest of his career. From san jose's perspective, it is reasonable to assume that they are giving up 4 years(or more) of their captain and best player. Yes he has to sign a new contract and his cap hit may go up a little, but that shouldn't be an issue. This is why the asking price is Huberdeau++.

Florida or any team that traded for thornton would only be getting 1 year of him, which is worth a lot less.

FrolikFan67 01-22-2013 10:23 AM

yea thornton doesnt really work out for both teams, could Havlat be had or he pretty much off limits? tallon had him in chicago and would look nice on a line with huberdeau and bjugstad.


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