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-   -   Anyone else getting a bad feeling about goaltending? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1329907)

fallsviewafro 01-22-2013 09:39 AM

Anyone else getting a bad feeling about goaltending?
 
Yeah yeah its only been two games, one week training camp, blah blah... and I'm a goalie so I should know as much. Still, I've got a bit of a bad feeling about goaltending... could this be the beginning of the end of us standing pat in net?

With all of the shenanigans surrounding the backup situation and Irving not really performing up to snuff, all I could think of was "well, at least we have Kipper." And with a shortened season meaning he won't have to bear the load of 70+ games - perfect, right?

I'm hoping this is just him shaking off the rust. SJ wasn't exactly his fault but 4 and 5 goals against in the first few outings aren't exactly promising. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and I want to believe he's got years of solid goaltending left. On top of that, being Flames fans, we are right to have zero faith in our backups as time has taught us... especially now considering Irving having a shaky start in the A. What do you guys think? Will we see Ramo come in as a backup next year and take the starting role the year after?

I Hate Chris Butler 01-22-2013 09:55 AM

I've had a bad feeling for a while. I was going to make this thread later on. It's because of the horrible backups that Kipper plays the way he does, imo. Kiprusoff is too secure in his position.

InfinityIggy 01-22-2013 09:57 AM

Kipper was average at best in the first game, not so good in the last one.

Hopefully he is just shaking off the rust. We will be in big trouble if his age is starting to show though.

tfong 01-22-2013 10:40 AM

Well he's not growing any younger that's for sure.

DBU 01-22-2013 10:46 AM

I sincerely hope it's just rust. He was pretty bad last night against the Ducks. The game against SJ was more defensive gaffes than goaltending, but yeah he needs to be better. That said, it's only two games. If this continues for another week or more, then I think we should be concerned.

Having said that though, it couldn't hurt to get Irving in the net sooner than later.

SmellOfVictory 01-22-2013 11:01 AM

Yup, it's that time again. Kipper tends to swap seasons between awesome and crappy goaltending. Last season was pretty great, therefore this season will be pretty bad.

Hand of Gaudreau 01-22-2013 11:12 AM

I was going to make this thread today too.

Kiprusoff was average against San Jose, he plays like what we've come to expect, I think the team can win, confidence in net goes a long way, Niemi bailed out the Sharks and look how they responded, Kipper, lets face it, he let the team down and the team responded in kind. His rebound control and lateral movement against the Sharks was downright bad. His rebound recovery was something you would expect from a rookie, not one of the best scramblers of our time.

Against Anahiem, I thought we should have pulled him. He wasn't just average, he was bad, Irving could have won us that game. I don't know whats up with Kippers rebound control, or his recovery, or puck tracking but he looks like an AHL goalie being thrown into NHL games and I hope he sorts his **** out. We should have won yesterday, hands down, and we lost due in part to a slow start but mainly due to BAD goaltending.

Don't get me wrong I am Kiprusoffs biggest fan, I have two jerseys, countless photos and a giant Kipper banner in the hockey watching room, but I also feel as a goalie watching him play that I may be more critical of the smaller mistakes he normally doesn't make. I mean come on, he even looked rattled playing the puck. He needs to get his head sorted out.

pdd 01-22-2013 11:14 AM

McCollum, Quincey, and Franzen for Hudler and Bouwmeester? :D

Adirondack Flames 01-22-2013 11:15 AM

http://forums.techguy.org/attachment...3197/panic.gif

Calculon 01-22-2013 12:19 PM

There's no reason to be surprised by a slow start from Kipper, nor is it wholly indicative of anything certifiable going forward. And there are a number of reasons why.

1) A lot of veterans are still looking to find their groove. No preseason games, short training camp, plus extended break mean it'll take a few games. If people hadn't noticed, Kipper's not the only struggling right now - Giordano, Cammalleri, Iginla, and Bouwmeester have yet to really show that there timings back.

2) Like Iginla, Kipper was also known for his slow starts. And while he made change to his off season training program to address that, the lockout could have set him back.

3) This should be pretty obvious but nevertheless, goalies tend to look very good in defensive systems and tend to be exposed in run and gun offensive systems. The Flames attention of the defensive aspects of the game on Sunday and Monday were awful. Beyond awful really. So compound that with the other reasons above, and well, you get a shaky performance.

Give it time. The Flames as a whole, will need some time to adjust to Hartley's system. It's way too soon to suggest Kipper's performance in the first two games of a lockout shortened season is worrying.

Stewie Griffin 01-22-2013 12:33 PM

He's a terrible goalie. He needs to stop the third and fourth rebounds 100% of the time. Also, he needs x-ray vision to see through the defenseman that's frozen like a deer in headlights in front of him.

But seriously. Remember Kipper under Mike Keenan's offensive system? That's who we have in net now. Except he's five years older.

Flames92 01-22-2013 02:41 PM

I still think kipper has some good hockey in him left, writing him off 2 games in is way too early.. He has not played a game in 7 months i think he just needs a couple games to get into the beat

Johnny Hoxville 01-22-2013 02:50 PM

Kipper did not even become a starter until later in his career. IMO, Kipper should be an elite goalie until he is 40, that is assuming he wants to play that long.

I am not worried at all, by game 5 we will see the Kipper of old. Knee jerk reactions are never the right ones (ie. Phaneuf).

Sean Monahan 01-22-2013 03:00 PM

Playing a good transition team like the Canucks will make this issue even more clear if we don't clean up our defensive breakdowns

TheHudlinator 01-22-2013 03:01 PM

Personally I am worried as Kipper as never been very consistent and in the last 5 years has only had 2 good years I think his age is starting to show, I hope Irving proves me right and can show he is an nhl goalie because I think he will need to play 15+ games this year for us to be successful.

maverick9 01-22-2013 03:22 PM

your a goalie? for a beer league team? maybe a competitive rec league? yes you know exactly that kipper is done. too many of flames nation is becoming like vancouver fan, fickle and fairweather. Now im not saying stay pat and do nothing if it continues but cmon. 2 games if after 10 there are 2-8 or 2-6-2 etc. changes are coming. New coach, new system, still missing 2 new players and vets shaking off rust. calm down peeps.

Calculon 01-22-2013 03:23 PM

Kippers "bad" years under Keenan are overstated and in many ways, should be ignored entirely.

Recall if you will to the reactions around the hockey world when Keen was hired. Does no one remember how so many speculated that he would run Kipper out of town if not outright ruin him, along with Iginla and Phaneuf? Prior to coming to Calgary, Keenan had a reputation as a 'goalie killer' based on his history with treating goalies as scapegoats for team losses. He ran Curtis Joesph out of town for that very reason. It should be no surprise then that Kippers play suffered under Keenan nor should it be a condemnation on Kipper himself.

StreakingRed 01-22-2013 03:29 PM

Kiprusoff is the last player on this team that I'm concerned with. Yeah, he hasn't played well in the first two games. He'll bounce back.

WhereIsIt 01-22-2013 03:43 PM

The goaltending is going to be totally fine.

Pacem 01-22-2013 03:46 PM

Kipper hasn't played well, but I don't think he is this teams biggest worry to start the season.

Goaltending is an issue because for like the 7th season in a row we failed to get a capable back up for Kipper. The season is so condensed that we should have done something. Something should have been done before the lockout.

Hand of Gaudreau 01-22-2013 03:49 PM

I wasn't saying HE IS bad, only that his play has been noticably bad for a starting/elite NHL goalie. I don't know if that shot at being a goalie was at me but regardless of where I've played as it really isn't anyone here's business, it was just stated to show that I'm not just looking at stats when I say I found his game severely lacking. I'm not necessarily worried about him throughout the season, but if he doesn't find the part of his game that makes him the backbone of our team, and give the players the confidence in him they need to continue to be creative with the puck, soon, this team could begin to spiral downward faster than we can stop. I'm just suggesting that potentially a Leland Irving start is required sooner than we anticipated to give Kipper a break, he just came off an intense camp and was immediately thrown into a double header to start. I say let Irving play the 'Nucks, he's had success against them in the past, and IF he wins, **** the team just gained a boatload of confidence in their backup and that could pay huge dividends down the stretch, while at the same time giving Kiprusoff the time he needs to rest and find his own timing.

TheHudlinator 01-22-2013 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calculon (Post 58095871)
Kippers "bad" years under Keenan are overstated and in many ways, should be ignored entirely.

Recall if you will to the reactions around the hockey world when Keen was hired. Does no one remember how so many speculated that he would run Kipper out of town if not outright ruin him, along with Iginla and Phaneuf? Prior to coming to Calgary, Keenan had a reputation as a 'goalie killer' based on his history with treating goalies as scapegoats for team losses. He ran Curtis Joesph out of town for that very reason. It should be no surprise then that Kippers play suffered under Keenan nor should it be a condemnation on Kipper himself.

2 years ago under Sutter was his second worst in the NHL in the most offensive system he has played in. This year we are playing a very open system I don't think it is crazy to be worried about him.

Calculon 01-22-2013 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGleninator (Post 58099633)
2 years ago under Sutter was his second worst in the NHL in the most offensive system he has played in. This year we are playing a very open system I don't think it is crazy to be worried about him.

I mentioned earlier that just about any goalies numbers will suffer in a run and gun or high octane offensive system. See Bryzgalov in Phoenix and then Philadelphia. Or Smith in Tampa Bay and then in Phoenix.

Kipper won't be putting vezina like numbers this year, but at the same time, once he finds his groove, he won't be costing the teams wins either through poor play. A far bigger priority should be getting the defense in order, which as a whole, has been awful in the first two games.

TheHudlinator 01-22-2013 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calculon (Post 58102561)
I mentioned earlier that just about any goalies numbers will suffer in a run and gun or high octane offensive system. See Bryzgalov in Phoenix and then Philadelphia. Or Smith in Tampa Bay and then in Phoenix.

Kipper won't be putting vezina like numbers this year, but at the same time, once he finds his groove, he won't be costing the teams wins either through poor play. A far bigger priority should be getting the defense in order, which as a whole, has been awful in the first two games.

The Canucks might have one of the best run and gun teams and their goalies do fine, Niemi was able to post better numbers than Kipper when on Chicago both aren't 1-1 comparisons but Kipper's play before in offensive system is worrying as he doesn't do well when he sits cold for a while he needs constant shots. Bryz still put up better numbers then Kipper in Philly and that Defense wasn't great last year, I am not saying the sky is falling but I am saying we should be cautious as Kipper hasn't shown the ability to thrive in offensive systems.

Calculon 01-22-2013 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGleninator (Post 58102795)
The Canucks might have one of the best run and gun teams and their goalies do fine, Niemi was able to post better numbers than Kipper when on Chicago both aren't 1-1 comparisons but Kipper's play before in offensive system is worrying as he doesn't do well when he sits cold for a while he needs constant shots. Bryz still put up better numbers then Kipper in Philly and that Defense wasn't great last year, I am not saying the sky is falling but I am saying we should be cautious as Kipper hasn't shown the ability to thrive in offensive systems.

The Canucks have a terrific defensive squad when healthy and Bryzgalov and Niemi's stats were fairly similar to Kippers under Keenan and Sutter's anomaly season. Those teams also have forwards willing to back check consistently.

But yeah, fair enough. I agree Kippers numbers will suffer this year. But if he can still make the big save when necessary, it shouldn't be much of a problem, especially if the offensive is going.


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