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-   -   48 Games - 'Burn' a season for development? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1329919)

Howard Chuck 01-22-2013 10:52 AM

48 Games - 'Burn' a season for development?
 
Just a thought, reading all of the posts regarding the development of our young players and prospects, i.e. Sheif, Burmi, even Kane etc.... Some feel (and I kind of agree) that Sheif doesn't get a fair shot at demonstrating ability with 3rd or 4th line duties, Burmi doesn't get to develop what he was drafted for, his offencive skills, Kane doesn't always have someone that can keep up with him on a rush (mabey Ollie now).

To be realistic, this is a very short season and we aren't making a cup run this year BUT we do have a lot of unanswered questions regarding some players, lines and chemistry.

Does it make sense to (not exactly burn the season) go full on experimentation this season? Try these young guys in a couple of combinations on the second line or even try them out with first line duties? Mix up the chemistry a little, put the guys who rush into the offensive zone and have to wait for their team mates to catch up, together?

I don't know all of the possibilities, but we seem to have a lot of unanswered questions and it would be nice to put them to bed this year and get a better start with a full season next year.

YMMV.

Hank Chinaski 01-22-2013 11:13 AM

A season is a season. That's just my take, but I don't see how it's any less meaningful because it's shortened.

While I agree with the general consensus that the Jets are a few years and a few pieces away from being more than first round fodder, there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be takign a serious run at 8th spot this year. Anything less than improvement over last year's 84 points (prorated, of course) should be considered a major disappointment.

TheDeuce 01-22-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 58077589)
A season is a season. That's just my take, but I don't see how it's any less meaningful because it's shortened.

While I agree with the general consensus that the Jets are a few years and a few pieces away from being more than first round fodder, there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be takign a serious run at 8th spot this year. Anything less than improvement over last year's 84 points (prorated, of course) should be considered a major disappointment.


Why prorated? I'd be pleased if we got 84 points this season, shortened or no. :laugh:

Aim high, reach higher.



m.

Howard Chuck 01-22-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 58077589)
A season is a season. That's just my take, but I don't see how it's any less meaningful because it's shortened.

While I agree with the general consensus that the Jets are a few years and a few pieces away from being more than first round fodder, there's absolutely no reason why they shouldn't be takign a serious run at 8th spot this year. Anything less than improvement over last year's 84 points (prorated, of course) should be considered a major disappointment.

Don't get me wrong, I love the race for a playoff spot as much as anyone. It just seems that since we don't want to mess with a 'traditional' lineup (i.e. LLW) we may be missing out on seeing what some of our prospects/younger players can do if presented with some bigger responsibilities. What could these young guys do if they were actually given a chance with some top linemates instead of 3rd/4th line duties?

I would just like to see us go a little further out on a limb to properly evaluate what we have in these guys and what some different chemistry could do. I know that Noel is doing this in small doses, but I think to really give these guys a chance, we have to take a bigger chance on them....

No guts, no glory.... throw caution to the wind..... (insert any other cliche here :) )

SCP Guy 01-22-2013 11:35 AM

I don't care that it is a 48 game season.....but it is a season where we have no chance to do anything in the playoffs IF we do manage to make it...so I consider that the reason not to burn a year of ELC....

Howard Chuck 01-22-2013 11:40 AM

Contractual reasoning certainly needs to play into this as well.

garret9 01-22-2013 12:36 PM

IMO you have to earn those spots if it's going to be permenent.
Noel has been giving Scheifele and Burmistrov some top6 mins and some PP time.
For example at last year:
Ya kane was poor on PP but he was still more effective per min than Burmi. Burmi was 7th most effective per min and got the 7th most PP toi/game

OnionPuck 01-22-2013 01:47 PM

Try convincing players to go out and play hard with a "burn the season" mentality from the top of the org...

Would you really expect a guy like Stuart to really block every puck he can if he knows he's just playing so some kids can develop? He probably would, because he's a beast, but he'd be smarter not to.

Maybe, MAYBE for the last few games of the season where the playoffs are out of reach I'd suggest this... but now, no, it's too early and we may earn a spot just yet. Have faith.

vBurmi 01-22-2013 01:59 PM

I disagree completely. Here's why:
-They need to learn to win and compete. This team lacks intensity more than anything else. Intensity comes from sustained internal competition (both from the team and the individual). There are less skilled teams capable of making the playoffs IMO.
-Your point of putting fast players together and slow players together is very misplaced IMO. You don't need all 3 forwards crossing the blue-line at the same time. The trailer often finds the open ice in the high slot. Not to mention you can't send out a line of all slow players. IMO Wellwood, even though he has been bad so far this year, is a great match for Kane. Same with Jokinen, I think the second line will have great chemistry this year and we've already seen glimpses of it.
-Burmistrov wasn't just drafted for his offense. He was always hyped as a two-way player. Scheifele also needs to improve his defensive play if he's ever going to get icetime in the NHL - ex. see the 3rd period against Boston yesterday, with him on the bench. They also mentioned during that game that Thorburn has been mentoring Scheifele about all the little things it takes to be successful at that level. They're not giving him 4th line minutes with the expectation that he'll be cut if he doesn't score enough goals.
-Putting rookies in to "develop" by giving them as much icetime as possible only for them to get destroyed game after game doesn't do anyone any good. Physical development isn't altered by playing in the NHL early. Mental development can easily be hurt if a cerebral playmaker like Scheifele is rushed in to the league too early, forcing him to take shortcuts like not holding on to the puck, shying away from the front of the net, etc.

JetsHomer 01-22-2013 02:02 PM

Play to win. Always.

Boreal 01-22-2013 02:24 PM

You play to win, but I would not be opposed to putting players into developmental positions that may cost us some wins. For example, playing to win with Postma and Redmond both drawing in, with Scheifele in the top 6 may cost us a few W's, but would help their development, and would better position us to select a game-changing talent in the draft. It is deep, and pretty much anybody in the top 7 looks to be walking away with one heck of a talent.

I want to be a team that competes for championships, not competes for 8th year in and year out.

Le Golie 01-22-2013 02:30 PM

They hand out a Stanley Cup at the end. This is a very real season and I can gaurentee everyone in the organization is treating it as one. By June nobody is going to be talking about this as a half season crap.

Howard Chuck 01-22-2013 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boreal (Post 58087967)
You play to win, but I would not be opposed to putting players into developmental positions that may cost us some wins. For example, playing to win with Postma and Redmond both drawing in, with Scheifele in the top 6 may cost us a few W's, but would help their development, and would better position us to select a game-changing talent in the draft. It is deep, and pretty much anybody in the top 7 looks to be walking away with one heck of a talent.

I want to be a team that competes for championships, not competes for 8th year in and year out.

I think the bold portion of this is probably better wording for what I was trying to say. I've only watched half a game this year so far, so I'm going off what has been said on this board mostly.

"burning" a season might have been a little inflammatory :laugh:

GrandChelems 01-22-2013 03:07 PM

I blame kids flaking out to TSN for this "Let's fail" approach ... and I say kids because nobody would even discuss losing for any reason in sports until about 8 years ago when TSn made it fashionable.

Howard Chuck 01-22-2013 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandChelems (Post 58090985)
I blame kids flaking out to TSN for this "Let's fail" approach ... and I say kids because nobody would even discuss losing for any reason in sports until about 8 years ago when TSn made it fashionable.

I would never suggest trying to fail for a draft pick, rather I wonder if it would be worth it to give the prospects an honest shot with real minutes and real linemates, as it looks like Noel may do with Sheifele tonight (I hope!). I'll admit this may be at the expense of games at, but in the Grand (Chelems) Scheme of things, it might be a means to an end.

sipowicz 01-23-2013 10:55 PM

Completely stupid idea, you put your best line-up out there to WIN, nothing else matters! If you have players who aren't just focused on winning you dump them, coach---gone, GM---gone!

Gnova 01-24-2013 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sipowicz (Post 58202313)
Completely stupid idea, you put your best line-up out there to WIN, nothing else matters! If you have players who aren't just focused on winning you dump them, coach---gone, GM---gone!

This is my feeling exactly.

If it seems likely at the trade deadline that you aren't going to make the playoffs make some moves to improve the team for the future.

I'm all for developing players. I'd like them to keep Scheifele partly for development but also because there is no one better n the organization that he would be taking up a roster spot for.
"But but if he doesn't get top six minutes it's not worth it."
Last time I checked he needs development on his defensive game as well and that can be done on the 3rd lot 4th line as long as he gets 10+ min average per game.

DespoticNewt 01-24-2013 03:18 AM

I am in agreeance with the others. 48 game season or 82 game season, it matters not.In the context of this season it is a full season. If he is ready to contribute now, then he should stay up.

Howard Chuck 01-24-2013 12:27 PM

The Washington game satisfied my desire to see some change in chemistry and some more of the new faces. Juggling the lines to move Kane and Ollie with Wheeler, moving Burmi up to for some of the game, playing Sheifele a little more and adding in Wright to see what he had.

The changes in that game were what I was hoping would happen. Noel didn't play it safe with the LLW line, sheltered less and added a completely new face.

..... and we won on top of all this!

So my thought that we needed to accept some loses to try out some new things, was unfounded after all. Who woulda thunk it? :)


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