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-   -   Byfuglien an Enstrom (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1331567)

Jetsfareast 01-24-2013 07:22 AM

Byfuglien an Enstrom
 
Where do you rank them as far as the top pairing defense in the NHL

In offense
In defense
Overall

vBurmi 01-24-2013 09:17 AM

Offense: 1st
Defense: ~25th

Both are taking in to account Byfuglien's dominance taking the puck down low in the offensive zone - defensively I have to dock them for giving up so many odd-man rushes. If we were judging just by defensive zone coverage not off the rush, I'd probably say closer to average but still not above average due to Byfuglien's occasional defensive lapses (not as bad as some believe but still not average 1st pairing defense) and Enstrom's lack of size around the net. Offensively I don't think there's a better pairing and I don't think it's all that close either.

It's still early but Byfuglien looks noticeably better this year in his conditioning and somewhat in his decision making. Also note that forwards backing up to cover him when he pinches would make a huge difference in how his play is perceived.

Nothing Is New 01-24-2013 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vBurmi (Post 58218889)
Offense: 1st
Defense: ~25th

Both are taking in to account Byfuglien's dominance taking the puck down low in the offensive zone - defensively I have to dock them for giving up so many odd-man rushes. If we were judging just by defensive zone coverage not off the rush, I'd probably say closer to average but still not above average due to Byfuglien's occasional defensive lapses (not as bad as some believe but still not average 1st pairing defense) and Enstrom's lack of size around the net. Offensively I don't think there's a better pairing and I don't think it's all that close either.

It's still early but Byfuglien looks noticeably better this year in his conditioning and somewhat in his decision making. Also note that forwards backing up to cover him when he pinches would make a huge difference in how his play is perceived.

Agree with your ranking (best offensive) but I don't quite see Buff being dominant with puck - down low or anywhere. For instance, last game he had three give aways. He does have an excellent point shot.

truck 01-24-2013 09:56 AM

They are a top 10 pairing and probably to 3 offensively.

Any defensive ranking will be wildly subjective, but they lose points because Buff doesn't kill penalties.

garret9 01-24-2013 11:05 AM

I'm going to do it the stats way ;)
Top defenders go against the toughest opponents and get the most ice-time... so I'll look at that.

Offence: 1st
When it comes to even strength, which is the most predominate time of ice usage, they are the most successful offensive numbers AINEC. The next closest pair is CHI with Keith and Seabrook, but Keith got half of his points from secondary assists, and together they are still a quarter point per 60 mins away.
Power play is a bit more interesting because a lot of teams have one guy from each their first and second even strength pair together. There is one primary even strength pair more successful than Enstrom-Byfuglien at PP and that's Suter-Weber... but they are both no longer together and their even-strength combined is almost the same as Byfuglien...
So I'd give #1 to Enstrom-Byfuglien, with an honerable but RIP mention to Suter-Weber.

Defence: ???
Defence is a lot more subjective and hard to do... Do you say it's about out-chancing your opponent (Corsi), or is it about reducing shots (SA/60), or do you ignore that everyone has different level of goalies behind them and go by goals (GA/60)...
Personally I say SA/60 are probably the the best (or least bad) as it's more stable, ignores goalie (unlike goals), take skill to do and repeatable... but it's far from perfect in my mind because having better or worse forwards can also manipulate it.

For fun here's the list of some of the top D pairs and how they did... unfortunately not all is created equal as they did not all have the same usage... they did all however face top competition of their team.
PairTeamCorsiSA/60GA/60
Chara-Boychuk BOS 31.08 50.8 4.57
Lidstrom-White DET 28.30 49.6 3.97
Martin-Letang PIT 23.76 50.4 5.31
Bieksa-Hamhuis VAN 20.43 54.1 4.72
Enstrom-Byfuglien WPG 19.76 53.9 5.93
Karlsson-Kuba OTT 17.86 57.2 4.99
Scuderi-Doughty LAK 16.55 49.7 4.06
Seabrook-Keith CHI 11.08 53.3 5.49
Suter-Weber NSH -03.88 64.6 4.17
Subban-Gorges MTL -05.08 51.2 4.44
McDonagh-Giradi NYR -06.91 51.5 4.00
Faulk-Gleason CAR -10.14 57.9 4.60
Beuachemin-Fowler ANA -10.63 49.3 5.72
Keep in mind WPG's numbers probably got damaged from injuries (Stuart!!) more than the rest.

Overall:???
It depends on your preference... as a whole I wouldn't be scared to call Enstrom-Byfuglien a top 10 pair.

Flair Hay 01-24-2013 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vBurmi (Post 58218889)
Offense: 1st
Defense: ~25th

Both are taking in to account Byfuglien's dominance taking the puck down low in the offensive zone - defensively I have to dock them for giving up so many odd-man rushes. If we were judging just by defensive zone coverage not off the rush, I'd probably say closer to average but still not above average due to Byfuglien's occasional defensive lapses (not as bad as some believe but still not average 1st pairing defense) and Enstrom's lack of size around the net. Offensively I don't think there's a better pairing and I don't think it's all that close either.

It's still early but Byfuglien looks noticeably better this year in his conditioning and somewhat in his decision making. Also note that forwards backing up to cover him when he pinches would make a huge difference in how his play is perceived.

They have room to improve on the back end as both are pretty young. But ATM the quoted post is about my feelings.

Given Bogo's pairing is more of a traditional shut down role, That ranking is fine with me for the time being.

vBurmi 01-24-2013 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nothing Is New (Post 58219369)
Agree with your ranking (best offensive) but I don't quite see Buff being dominant with puck - down low or anywhere. For instance, last game he had three give aways. He does have an excellent point shot.

Byfuglien usually requires 2 or more guys to get him off the puck along the boards. In every game this year we've seen him drive the net from the corner dragging defenders on his back and getting a great scoring chance. He also probably (given that there's no way they keep stats on this) scores more points not playing from the point than any other defenseman in the league by far.

I don't disagree with you on his shot though, his goal the other night was beautiful.


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