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-   -   Proposal: Detroit - Montreal - Kaberle (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1332379)

tfong 01-25-2013 03:41 AM

Detroit - Montreal - Kaberle
 
Kaberle - Puck moving dman that we need (actually we need any top 4 dman right now) Big 4.5m contract, Canadiens possibly looking at buying him out anyways end of the year. Aging and on the decline but can provide enough minutes for the Detroit blue line.

for

Sheahan - Very close to being the 3/4 defensive center that can chip in with maybe 5-10 goals a year but has size and wheels. Young enough that he could potential have top six upside but I wouldn't bet on it. Gives the Canadiens a way to rid themselves of Kaberle acquiring some depth size down the middle that is young and has speed to fit their team.

Wings want a defender, Kaberle was always on my list of guys that should fit into the system. With Ferraro improving his game, Andersson being in AHL and can fill a defensive role and likely Emmerton/Abdelkader locking down the 3/4 center slots, I see Sheahan as a possibly attractive young depth piece to move for a defender that can help our team maybe for the next 2 years while we wait for our d prospects to get up to speed.

The Zetterberg Era 01-25-2013 03:48 AM

This is a terrible deal, not only do I just not want Kaberle in general. Detroit's issue isn't puck moving d-man that cannot play D, we have tons of those and that is what Kaberle is. They also need to sign some of their own guys and would probably like to hit the free agency market so Kaberle hurts there. But really the worst part is trying to move Sheahan. A former 1st round pick that is showing the offense many believed was there all along but some how not showing at ND. He is also rather unique in Detroit's system given his size, speed and scoring tools. Also the team needs Sheahan and Jarnkrok so they will only be moved for good things and this isn't one of them.

Sheahan has been one of the best players in Grand Rapids for the last two months, I don't think you have seen much of him lately.

tfong 01-25-2013 03:57 AM

No our issue is having ANY dman right now capable of playing top four mins outside if Kroner and Smith. I cmon like you think Lashoff is going to cut it? White us out for 2-3 weeks, Kindl out etcc. Kaberle is better than Quincey as well.

I'm not knocking Sheahan, it's just that he makes decent trade bait right since he is developing well. He isn't unique, Ferraro has a similar game minus the size and we still have Abby and Emmerton in those same roles.

The Zetterberg Era 01-25-2013 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 58299131)
No our issue is having ANY dman right now capable of playing top four mins outside if Kroner and Smith. I cmon like you think Lashoff is going to cut it? White us out for 2-3 weeks, Kindl out etcc. Kaberle is better than Quincey as well.

I'm not knocking Sheahan, it's just that he makes decent trade bait right since he is developing well.

Take your lumps now, Kaberle is not the answer, he is an overpriced pretty bad defenseman. Kindl is back tomorrow and will get his shot. Quincey is Holland's personal disaster and him and Babs are going to play that guy until our eyes start to bleed by the looks of things. I honestely know that Kaberle is better, I have a very low opinion of the guy.

We will see what Lashoff can do because this is severe overpayment. Why trade a piece as good as Sheahan for a two week problem. If the season turns out poor so be it, this is a panic move and one that would be terrible long term.

You're knocking Sheahan with what you wrote about him. Just because you don't see him as more than a fourth liner doesn't make it true. He is having an impressive rookie year and is exactly the player Nill and Holland have been talking about getting more of. I would come over to the dark side on our board and actively bash Holland if this deal was ever made.

If you want to offer them Andersson fine, I still don't do it, I don't want Kaberle. You can even go for some combination of midtier (like Andersson) and draft pick if they want more, which once again I still hate. But Sheahan should not be moved for some trigger happy save the season move and I do trust that Holland won't do that. He is a 6'2" 215 lbs center with top 6 upside that has been playing at over a point a game for a month and change, leads the entire team in +/- (I do hate that stat for the record but there it is) has been an absolute stud on the pk and is getting better on the PP. He actually is in front of Andersson in my opinion in the callup order, not that the Wings would do that because of decisions needing to be made on Andersson sooner. Should they make the playoffs, I do expect Sheahan to be the fourth line center allowing Abdelkader to slide to wing as that would be their best lineup.

tfong 01-25-2013 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era (Post 58299205)
Take your lumps now, Kaberle is not the answer, he is an overpriced pretty bad defenseman. Kindl is back tomorrow and will get his shot. Quincey is Holland's personal disaster and him and Babs are going to play that guy until our eyes start to bleed by the looks of things. I honestely know that Kaberle is better, I have a very low opinion of the guy.

We will see what Lashoff can do because this is severe overpayment. Why trade a piece as good as Sheahan for a two week problem. If the season turns out poor so be it, this is a panic move and one that would be terrible long term.

You're knocking Sheahan with what you wrote about him. Just because you don't see him as more than a fourth liner doesn't make it true. He is having an impressive rookie year and is exactly the player Nill and Holland have been talking about getting more of. I would come over to the dark side on our board and actively bash Holland if this deal was ever made.

In another post around here I basically think his top upside would be Kris Draper, that's not a bad thing really. Granted I've only watched one and a half Griffins games this year, but he grinds out points, he doesn't seem to have top end scoring ability.

It could be an overpayment but teams know we are hurting now and Kindl won't save us nor White when he comes back. Unless Smith has a huge growth jump this season it will be hard pressed to make a good playoff showing.

The Zetterberg Era 01-25-2013 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 58299225)
In another post around here I basically think his top upside would be Kris Draper, that's not a bad thing really. Granted I've only watched one and a half Griffins games this year, but he grinds out points, he doesn't seem to have top end scoring ability.

Well I have watched all 40 (he has played in 38), so there would probably explain the huge difference in opinion. He has a heavy wrist shot and is very positionally sound which leads to good chances, which he usually finishes. He could wander a little lower than he does but stays in good defensive positions. Needs to be a little more physical but his hockey IQ is good and the better players he plays with the more dangerous he gets. Has good net drive and is strong out in front and the guy basically never loses a corner puck battle. I don't know what he will become have thrown out Jarret Stoll a second/third line tweener with a heavy shot, probably best on the third line but a very good special teams player and quality guy. I don't see Draper, maybe in his big offensive year but they play the game kind of different, Sheahan has a lot of + tools. Draper was a great player and speed based, Sheahan has very good speed especially for a guy his size but he is likely to play a very different game although he will be a stud on the PK.

Just on the other guys Ferraro is also a winger and not a center in the future. Landon has really come into his own there, and his value is likely climbing back into something when we talk trades, nothing huge but not a throw in. Sheahan and Jarnkrok are really it in terms of centers, cannot see how Andersson really pans out especially if Abdelkader sticks at center even if he doesn't Sheahan, Jarnkrok and Helm will likely all be more important on the center depth chart.

The Zetterberg Era 01-25-2013 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 58299225)
It could be an overpayment but teams know we are hurting now and Kindl won't save us nor White when he comes back. Unless Smith has a huge growth jump this season it will be hard pressed to make a good playoff showing.

And here is the thing, I am not for a panic quick fix move. The Wings have a good system for the right players I am all ears. But this doesn't need to be about a drive for 22 straight. The nature of the shortened season makes me even less interested to be honest. This thing is kind of a crapshoot. What says Kaberle makes you any of those things? I still think they are a playoff team, but Kaberle is not the difference between first round exit and deep run. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, and Howard are going to have to carry this team where it will go. Wherever that is is just fine with me as long as there is a plan going forward. They have to let things play out for a little bit, if this is the year the steak ends take your very high pick and get a game plan going in the offseason, one that doesn't include paying Kaberle 4.5 million.

tfong 01-25-2013 04:30 AM

I can concede that he could be possibly better than what I think but doesn't change that I think we need a top four dman. I doubt Sheahan gets you Markov whom is an upgrade over Kaberle when healthy unless more people share your opinion of Sheahan 's upside.

Note: i dont want to end the playoff streak here :P

The Zetterberg Era 01-25-2013 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 58299341)
I can concede that he could be possibly better than what I think but doesn't change that I think we need a top four dman. I doubt Sheahan gets you Markov whom is an upgrade over Kaberle when healthy unless more people share your opinion of Sheahan 's upside.

Getting a D-man right now is going to be pretty hard and you're going to have to pay through the nose. Sheahan probably doesn't deliver Markov, but the Wings are going to have to live with what is happening right now. They are three games in and have nine guys out. Have been playing without a very important piece of the team in Helm. Take a deep breath realize that it isn't their right to be great every year, but one of the ways to compound this is a series of panic moves. Once again I don't Holland will, but we will see maybe the early aggressive Ken Holland days are returning but with more tragic results for Wings fans. There isn't a whole lot in the system that will return the right value because of how they bring them a long or really should be shopped anyway. If the season goes off the rails, sell some of the cup winning veterans for what you can and figure out a plan of action after that. Not Kaberle for 8th place drives, what does that really do long term?

nmbr_24 01-25-2013 06:17 AM

The Bruins traded for Kaberle thinking they were getting a top 4 puck moving D that would help the powerplay.

What they got was a #6 D who did nothing for their powerplay.

I haven't watched him this year, but last year he was worse than he was in Boston.

I don't see why he would be a good idea for Detroit when he isn't a good idea for any other team.

Psycho Papa Joe 01-25-2013 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 58299033)
Kaberle - Puck moving dman that we need (actually we need any top 4 dman right now) Big 4.5m contract, Canadiens possibly looking at buying him out anyways end of the year. Aging and on the decline but can provide enough minutes for the Detroit blue line.

for

Sheahan - Very close to being the 3/4 defensive center that can chip in with maybe 5-10 goals a year but has size and wheels. Young enough that he could potential have top six upside but I wouldn't bet on it. Gives the Canadiens a way to rid themselves of Kaberle acquiring some depth size down the middle that is young and has speed to fit their team.

Wings want a defender, Kaberle was always on my list of guys that should fit into the system. With Ferraro improving his game, Andersson being in AHL and can fill a defensive role and likely Emmerton/Abdelkader locking down the 3/4 center slots, I see Sheahan as a possibly attractive young depth piece to move for a defender that can help our team maybe for the next 2 years while we wait for our d prospects to get up to speed.


Done deal, no take backs.

Halifaxhab* 01-25-2013 07:47 AM

I cannot see anyone wanting Kaberle right now. If he picked up his play and was actually doing what he did just 2 years ago....maybe....for cheap.


Perhaps Detroit would want a young guy like Yannick Weber who is inexpensive, an RFA and is just unfortunate to be in a system overborne with RH PMD.

Habsawce 01-25-2013 07:53 AM

The Wings can have Kaberle for free, heck I'll even pay for his flight out of pocket!

Natey 01-25-2013 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halifaxhab (Post 58301879)
I cannot see anyone wanting Kaberle right now. If he picked up his play and was actually doing what he did just 2 years ago....maybe....for cheap.


Perhaps Detroit would want a young guy like Yannick Weber who is inexpensive, an RFA and is just unfortunate to be in a system overborne with RH PMD.

Kaberle was on pace for around 40-points with MTL last year. He can still put up points, he just needs sheltered defensive minutes.

TML g u n n e R s* 01-25-2013 08:00 AM

DET trying to have the 07/08 leafs d corps

solo16 01-25-2013 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 58299225)
In another post around here I basically think his top upside would be Kris Draper, that's not a bad thing really. Granted I've only watched one and a half Griffins games this year, but he grinds out points, he doesn't seem to have top end scoring ability.

And you would be wrong. At this point his downside is Kris Draper. His upside is Getzlaf (not quite quick enough or shooty enough to be a Kesler). A playmaking, pass first big shut down center. Yes he has the tools to be that good. He has the highest +- of anyone on the Griffins, takes faceoffs, has size, and is scoring at a first line rate for the last month or so.

He is pretty much untradeable.

Brewsky 01-25-2013 08:06 AM

Face it Montreal, you are stuck with Kaberle, this deal is horrible.

Halifaxhab* 01-25-2013 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB (Post 58302021)
Kaberle was on pace for around 40-points with MTL last year. He can still put up points, he just needs sheltered defensive minutes.

He can score points, I am happy with that. It's his defensive play that needs work. He's made adjustments this season, and has done better. If we are to unload him, we need to hope he continues his current play (no one really noticed him these last few games....and that's good in a way). He's averageing about 16 mins a game, and he is being sheltered by Therrien. So maybe....just maybe, a GM out there will make a desperation move and snag him.

habs03 01-25-2013 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCB (Post 58302021)
Kaberle was on pace for around 40-points with MTL last year. He can still put up points, he just needs sheltered defensive minutes.

This

Only problem in Mtl is that wit Markov back, he won't be getting much ice time playing the 2nd unit PP.

but like you said, if you want a guy to help your powerplay, but you can have him play on the 3rd pair, than Kaberle can help a team.

IMO he doesn't have much value right now, but come to the trade deadline a team will take a risk on him for a some sort of draft pick.

If not Mtl will just buy him out in the summer with no impact on their cap.

EveryDay 01-25-2013 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewsky (Post 58302389)
Face it Montreal, you are stuck with Kaberle, this deal is horrible.

Face it, Montreal can buy him out this summer......

Pepin le bref 01-25-2013 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 58299033)
Kaberle - Puck moving dman that we need (actually we need any top 4 dman right now) Big 4.5m contract, Canadiens possibly looking at buying him out anyways end of the year. Aging and on the decline but can provide enough minutes for the Detroit blue line.

for

Sheahan - Very close to being the 3/4 defensive center that can chip in with maybe 5-10 goals a year but has size and wheels. Young enough that he could potential have top six upside but I wouldn't bet on it. Gives the Canadiens a way to rid themselves of Kaberle acquiring some depth size down the middle that is young and has speed to fit their team.

Wings want a defender, Kaberle was always on my list of guys that should fit into the system. With Ferraro improving his game, Andersson being in AHL and can fill a defensive role and likely Emmerton/Abdelkader locking down the 3/4 center slots, I see Sheahan as a possibly attractive young depth piece to move for a defender that can help our team maybe for the next 2 years while we wait for our d prospects to get up to speed.

Done and done, he's all yours.

Seriously, Kaberle has been awful thus far. When Subban comes back, Kaberle will be available for a 5th round pick...maybe even less.

Drydenwasthebest 01-25-2013 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewsky (Post 58302389)
Face it Montreal, you are stuck with Kaberle, this deal is horrible.

Just want to point out that it wasn't Montreal that made the trade offer.

Kaberle can still produce points. Any team that wants a veteran PMD anthat can pair him with a defensive partner would get a good offensive player with defensive liabilities. I can not comment on the OP because I know nothing of the offered prospect, but I think Montreal will be able to get something of value for Kaberle later in the season.

Hugo Sham 01-25-2013 09:05 AM

Detroit can have Kaberle for Gordie Howe's 1957 dentures.
he stinks. **** you Pierre Gauthier.
Be very Afraid Chicago

Frozenice 01-25-2013 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solo16 (Post 58302225)
And you would be wrong. At this point his downside is Kris Draper. His upside is Getzlaf (not quite quick enough or shooty enough to be a Kesler). A playmaking, pass first big shut down center. Yes he has the tools to be that good. He has the highest +- of anyone on the Griffins, takes faceoffs, has size, and is scoring at a first line rate for the last month or so.

He is pretty much untradeable.

Oh, come on, why be so modest. When he arrives over-ripe in Detroit 5 years from now we'll have forgotten all that has been written about him and realize that he'll be like Jim Slater but you'll have another prospect ripening who will be the next Mario Lemieux.

I remember the sarcastic comments the Detroit fan boys said about Markov during the summer. You should watch him a few times this season if you get a chance.

ginovegas 01-25-2013 09:27 AM

Kaberle only has 1 year left on his contract so its not the end of the world, plus you only have to pay him half of it this seasin if not less pending when the deal gets done

If Subban signs I am sure the Habs will let him go on th cheap. Probably a 2nd would do it


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