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English stars fan 01-25-2013 07:42 AM

Stars defensive woes
 
Even after 4 games it's clear that the Stars D has been struggling. Were it not for the excellent play of Lehtonen and Nilstorp this team would be considerably worse than 2-1-1. The Stars are last in SA/G at 38.2.

I can't imagine that as well as our 'tenders continue to play they'll be able to bail out the D all season. What should be done?

BigG44 01-25-2013 08:41 AM

Switching the pairs and minutes is shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. I went with sub in Oleksiak. Beyond that they should do nothing. We all understand Dallas isn't a contender this season, and trading assets for temporary fixes on the blueline is silly. Making a blockbuster trade for a true #1 is unlikely and costly. They were patient with the forwards, and that will start paying off very soon. It's time to be patient with the young D and let them get up to speed.

You can start adding players to the D after you know what you have in Larsen, Oleksiak, Nemeth, and I guess Benn.

starshockeyfan56 01-25-2013 08:44 AM

The problem right now extends beyond our defense to the forward group's defensive zone coverage. Whether on the back check or otherwise, there is a good amount of over-commitment, watching the puck, and abandoning position.

To your question though, I hope to see Oleksiak at some point this season. However, I haven't seem him play so I don't know how close he is to NHL-ready. It sounds like he has a ton of potential but I wouldn't want to rush him.

I like what I've seen from Jordie Benn and Dillon so far, granted they are making young mistakes. That's expected though, so provided they improve I'm content with those guys staying in the lineup.

Robidas and Goligoski are just too much of a liability together, so if nothing else I'd like to see Robidas play with someone more reliable defensively, like Larsen. Finally, I think it makes sense to give Rome a shot, but I doubt it would be in place of Robidas.

tl;dr
Voted for switching up the pairs/minutes.

TrillMike 01-25-2013 08:47 AM

A trade makes since, but good dmen are expensive. Who would we send?

Robidas, Morrow, Wandell and Bachman/Nihlstorp most likely don't have enough value by themselves to get anyone significant. There's also a problem with packaging 3 of them together because of the number of contracts. If a deal is made, I think it would be a 3 and picks for 2 maybe more (probably have to take on a bad contract too).

What teams do you guys think would be looking for a reasonable package including these guys?

Hell, would you include a guy like Campbell or R. Smith if it can fix the D?

Also, before I get flamed if it was up to me, I'd be patient and wait.

BeaverSports 01-25-2013 08:48 AM

To me, it should be a trade. I don't think Jordie Benn is an NHL defenceman and the Stars really highly overrate both Stephane Robidas and Alex Goligoski. I didn't really see the allure to Aaron Rome for the contract they gave him. That said, they're already putting a lot of weight on the shoulders of Dillon and Larsen and I wouldn't want to rush Oleksiak.

The Stars are a bit forward heavy now and they could surely package up the likes of Campbell, forward prospects, and maybe depth forwards to get someone serviceable back there.

piqued 01-25-2013 10:12 AM

Well the pairs and the time on ice need to change for starters. Rome should come into the lineup so we can see what we've got, Benn takes a seat. Start building the pairs from the bottom up.

Bottom pair: Rome-Robidas. Play the least at ES, do not play on the PP.
2nd pair: Dillon-Goligoski. Give Goligoski a bigger, defense-first partner who can deal with people physically.
Top pair: Daley-Larsen. If anyone is going to be able to play minutes and survive it's these guys. Put your best two players together and give them the lion's share of the responsibility. It still may not work out, but at least you're giving yourself a fighting chance.

Try to move Robidas any way possible. The return is immaterial. If successful, Benn returns to the lineup and can play with Rome. If this doesn't happen until later in the season then you consider bringing in Oleksiak.

Shady12 01-25-2013 10:13 AM

Would a trade around Goligoski and Subban be do-able?

BeaverSports 01-25-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shady12 (Post 58307709)
Would a trade around Goligoski and Subban be do-able?

If you want to add two more blue-chip prospects or high-round draft choices, maybe. Montreal values Subban about the same as the Stars value Benn, maybe even more because he's a defenceman and not many GMs, especially not young ones looking to make a name for themselves, are going to give away assets like the Stars did with Neal.

TrillMike 01-25-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeaverSports (Post 58307947)
If you want to add two more blue-chip prospects or high-round draft choices, maybe. Montreal values Subban about the same as the Stars value Benn, maybe even more because he's a defenceman and not many GMs, especially not young ones looking to make a name for themselves, are going to give away assets like the Stars did with Neal.

This and add the type of money he is rumored to be demanding. No thanks. (Not saying I wouldn't love him if he was on the team by any means).

Shady12 01-25-2013 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trillmike (Post 58308759)
This and add the type of money he is rumored to be demanding. No thanks. (Not saying I wouldn't love him if he was on the team by any means).

His game is a better fit than Goligoski and is a real top pairing guy..and is even a right shot which would be very helpful... When they decide to ditch Robidas the only roster player or prospect on D who is anywhere near the NHL will all be lefties except for Larsen. But I suppose I don't wouldn't want to overpay and part with multiple blue chip prospects.

Sports 01-25-2013 10:44 AM

I'd probably...

Roll...

Daley - Larsen
Golisogki - Dillon
Rome - Robidas
Benn

Two options with Robidas.

1. Give Robi a shot at the bottom pairing.
If he does well, and there is room for him on the bottom pairing, he stays.
If not, he goes.
Oleksiak is knocking on the door down in Austin, and Benn's probably your 7th D, so he'd probably be competing for that last pairing spot with Rome.

2. Shop him around now.
He'd probably hold just slightly more value before he was dropped to the bottom pairing.
For what it's worth, he has 2 assists in 4 games and leads the defense in points and +/- at +5.

... And go from there.

Brand New Stars 01-25-2013 10:46 AM

Depends what Montreal would want. Wouldn't trade Oleksiak though.

StarsFan74 01-25-2013 11:54 AM

I like Subban, but having just gone through a somewhat draining RFA process, it makes no sense to give up assets (esp. Goligoski) to get another unsigned RFA we have to jostle with.

piqued 01-25-2013 12:01 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem with Subban that Montreal simply will not budge from the bridge deal concept? The Stars just demonstrated that they aren't necessarily bound to such a framework.

Goligoski would be a brutal return for Montreal. That's like trading Benn for Gorges or something.

StarsFan74 01-25-2013 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piqued (Post 58314051)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the problem with Subban that Montreal simply will not budge from the bridge deal concept? The Stars just demonstrated that they aren't necessarily bound to such a framework.

Goligoski would be a brutal return for Montreal. That's like trading Benn for Gorges or something.

If MTL is steadfast on the bridge deal, then if I'm Nieuwendyk, I'd ask Bergevin to sign Subban to a Benn-like deal and prep him up for trade. Of course, Goligoski alone wouldn't get this done. Worst-case scenario, Nieuwendyk bites the bullet and gives up a 1st rounder in 2013 or one of his prospects not named Oleksiak or whomever.

Might I say, Goose would thrive in Montreal should he play 1st unit PP with Markov.

Edit: MTL does seem steadfast on a bridge-deal, as per Bob McKenzie

"I think it's ultimately heading toward a trade," said McKenzie. "They're just too far apart on the term of the contract - P.K. wants long, the Canadiens want two years - and they're probably at least $2.5 to $3 million per year apart on where they want to be. Ultimately I think this ends up in a trade."

joshh09 01-25-2013 12:27 PM

I voted for drop robidas add oleksiak.

A few have mentioned trying to trade Goligoski, but I think he being used all wrong. When he first got to Dallas he seemed to have way more offensive abilty than he has shown early this season and for most of 2011/12. His role seems to have turned more into making up for Robidas' mistakes rather than be able to pinch into the play a little more and be the offensive weapon from the blueline that we traded one of our best forwards for. What I would like to see in the future:

Oleksiak Goligoski
Daley Larsen
Dillon Benn/Nemeth

PP

Larsen Goligoski
Oleksiak Daley


I think possibly moving Goligoski to right D would allow him to get more shots being on the offside and with Larsen Goligoski both on their off shooting side on the PP they will be able to make D to D passes with the possiblities of releasing a one timer at anytime and the would force the forward units on the PK's to over watch the Dmen and possibily open the wings up a bit more.

txomisc 01-25-2013 01:47 PM

I think they should mostly stick it out this year. Do some shuffling on time a bit, especially giving more to larsen, but otherwise let the season play out.

I know PK Subban is a good player and all but I really don't think he is the type of guy Dallas would go after. He's got too much Sean Avery in his personality.

Cin 01-25-2013 02:00 PM

Oleksiak.

Also, Subban is asking for very fair money. 5-6mil is cheap for a true top pairing (soon to be elite) defenseman.

Hull Fan 01-25-2013 02:02 PM

The money for Subban almost doesn't matter if you trade Goligoski and his 4+ million out.

Subban for Goligoski, R. Smith, and Dallas' 1st 2013.

Offer Subban Benn's deal and ask if he'll take 6 or 7 years instead of just five.

Larsen-Subban
Daley-Dillon
Robidas-Benn/Rome

Then you can either ditch Robidas at the trade deadline or buy him out this summer to make room for Olesiak and Nemeth replaces Benn/Rome this offseason. You get skill, size, and rid of your three worst defenders within a year.

Cin 01-25-2013 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 58320555)
The money for Subban almost doesn't matter if you trade Goligoski and his 4+ million out.

Subban for Goligoski, R. Smith, and Dallas' 1st 2013.

Offer Subban Benn's deal and ask if he'll take 6 or 7 years instead of just five.

Larsen-Subban
Daley-Dillon
Robidas-Benn/Rome

Then you can either ditch Robidas at the trade deadline or buy him out this summer to make room for Olesiak and Nemeth replaces Benn/Rome this offseason. You get skill, size, and rid of your three worst defenders within a year.

Se I'd keep goligoski for a second pair, and trade out Robidas (just to shed him) then add whatever to get it done.

Then in a season and a half I'd roll something like this:

Subban-Larsen
Dillon-Oleksiak
Nemeth-Goligoski

Shady12 01-25-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 58320555)
The money for Subban almost doesn't matter if you trade Goligoski and his 4+ million out.

Subban for Goligoski, R. Smith, and Dallas' 1st 2013.

Offer Subban Benn's deal and ask if he'll take 6 or 7 years instead of just five.

Larsen-Subban
Daley-Dillon
Robidas-Benn/Rome

Then you can either ditch Robidas at the trade deadline or buy him out this summer to make room for Olesiak and Nemeth replaces Benn/Rome this offseason. You get skill, size, and rid of your three worst defenders within a year.

Subban is a right shot(another benefit of getting him) so probably won't put two right shots together.

Daley-Subban
Dillon- Larsen
Benn/Rome-Robidas

StarsFan74 01-25-2013 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cin (Post 58320985)
Se I'd keep goligoski for a second pair, and trade out Robidas (just to shed him) then add whatever to get it done.

Then in a season and a half I'd roll something like this:

Subban-Larsen
Dillon-Oleksiak
Nemeth-Goligoski

Whom are you dealing to get Subban?

Cin 01-25-2013 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarsFan74 (Post 58321357)
Whom are you dealing to get Subban?

Picks, Fraser, Glennie (PLEASE), Cap space, and whatever it takes to get done. (Just none of our defensive depth)

Is it likely? Nope.

Hull Fan 01-25-2013 02:31 PM

Without Goligoski we don't have enough to get Subban cause I'm not willing to trade Olesiak.

Besides Subban is an upgrade from Goligoski so why not ship him out.

I'm not sure about the pairs we'd use but as a whole the defense would be better.

Cin 01-25-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 58322355)
Without Goligoski we don't have enough to get Subban cause I'm not willing to trade Olesiak.

Besides Subban is an upgrade from Goligoski so why not ship him out.

I'm not sure about the pairs we'd use but as a whole the defense would be better.

You really think Joe would trade his prized possession after shipping out James Neal?


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