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-   -   Proposal: Detroit-Toronto (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1332483)

abhanot 01-25-2013 09:00 AM

Detroit-Toronto
 
Firstly, living in Detroit, I think I know a little bit about the Wings needs. Being a Leafs fan from Toronto, I may be way off here :laugh: :

1. Cody Franson for a 2013 2nd round pick

While I don't want to give up Franson from a Leafs POV, a 2nd round pick would be great in this draft, as its known as one of the deepest drafts in recent years. Statistically speaking, Franson is a little bit above an average defenceman. However, under Babcock's system and Detroit's style of play, Franson has potential to be a very good #2/#3 defenceman. He has a howitzer of a shot, good positioning, and can be a solid point man on the PP. His defensive game is a little weak because he doesn't use his huge 6 ft 5 in. frame as often as he should, but he is overall pretty good for at least 30+ points a year. Possibly more if playing with Detroit. From a Leafs POV, once again, the draft pick could be useful, as Franson is often squeezed out from a regular spot in the lineup (not sure why, I think he's top 4 material already).

2. Carl Gunnarsson for a 2013 1st round pick

Many people may have not ever heard of Gunnarsson, but he is easily the best defensive defenceman that the Leafs have. The perfect example of a stay at home Dman, and rarely makes mistakes in his own end. Plays a quiet offensive game, but can be good for 20+ points while playing a very sound defensive game.

3. John-Michael Liles for a 2013 2nd round pick

Many Detroit fans might be against this, but after watching the Wings PP's over the last few games, its clear they're missing that extra point presence. While Liles isn't the largest Dman (Gunnarsson is 6 ft. 2 in., and Franson is 6 ft. 5 in.), he has good positioning, and makes a good veteran presence in the lockeroom and on the ice. One of the Leafs most mobile defenceman, and he would be playing with Quincey again.

These trade scenarios would most likely occur at the trade deadline, especially if the Leafs are out of playoff contention and the Wings are still close/top 8 seed. Sure, the Wings have a lot of cap space to work with, so they might just go towards a defeceman who's a solid #1/#2 (Subban, Bouwmeester, etc.), but these scenarios are good trades for both teams.

Cheers,
Akshay Bhanot

EDIT: Grammar mistake and Liles for 1st changed to Liles for 2nd.

IBLEAF 01-25-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhanot (Post 58304191)
Firstly, living in Detroit, I think I know a little bit about the Wings needs. Being a Leafs fan from Toronto, I may be way off here :laugh: :

1. Cody Franson for a 2013 2nd round pick

While I don't want to give up Franson from a Leafs POV, a 2nd round pick would be great in this draft, as its known as one of the deepest drafts in recent years. Statistically speaking, Franson is a little bit above an average defenceman. However, under Babcock's system and Detroit's style of play, Franson has potential to be a very good #2/#3 defenceman. He has a howitzer of a shot, good positioning, and can be a solid point man on the PP. His defensive game is a little weak because he doesn't use his huge 6 ft 5 in. frame as often as he should, but he is overall pretty good for at least 30+ points a year. Possibly more if playing with Detroit. From a Leafs POV, once again, the draft pick could be useful, as Franson is often squeezed out from a regular spot in the lineup (not sure why, I think he's top 4 material already).

2. Carl Gunnarsson for a 2013 1st round pick

Many people may have not ever heard of Gunnarsson, but he is easily the best defensive defenceman that the Leafs have. The perfect example of a stay at home Dman, and rarely makes mistakes in his own end. Plays a quiet offensive game, but can be good for 20+ points while playing a very sound defensive game.

3. John-Michael Liles for a 2013 1st round pick

Many Detroit fans might be against this, but after watching the Wings PP's over the last few games, its clear they're missing that extra point presence. While Liles isn't the largest Dman (Gunnarsson is 6 ft. 2 in., and Franson is 6 ft. 5 in.), he has good positioning, and makes a good veteran presence in the lockeroom and on the ice. One of the Leafs most mobile defenceman.

These trade scenarios would most likely occur at the trade deadline, especially if the Leafs are out of playoff contention and the Wings are still close/top 8 seed. Sure, the Wings have a lot of cap space to work with, so they might just go towards a defeceman who's a solid #1/#2 (Subban, Bouwmeester, etc.), but these scenarios are good trades for both teams.

Cheers,
Akshay Bhanot

Trade # 3 pls and thx, i dont think jml is worth a 1st maybe a 2nd and a mid tier prospect.Gunner would have to be an overpayment of epic proportions to get him out of T.O

Ishad 01-25-2013 09:12 AM

JML for a first? Come on he's no Kyle Quincey. /bitter

RealisticLeaf55 01-25-2013 09:14 AM

Not willing to give up Gunnar. Franson deal is good with me. good posts by the way.

Liferleafer 01-25-2013 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealisticLeaf55 (Post 58304815)
Not willing to give up Gunnar. Franson deal is good with me. good posts by the way.

For a 1st...i'd give up Gunnar.

Chandrashekhar Limit 01-25-2013 09:17 AM

Does Detroit having any PWF prospect that would be of equal value to Franson? I think Nonis would rather that than a 2nd round pick.

DoubleDose86 01-25-2013 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 58304853)
For a 1st...i'd give up Gunnar.

Be sad to see him go, but how could anyone turn down a first for gunnar.

Would still cheer him, but wouldn't mind at all if he was traded for that.

Vipers31 01-25-2013 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhanot (Post 58304191)
However, under Babcock's system and Detroit's style of play, Franson has potential to be a very good #2/#3 defenceman.

I think that's beyond getting ahead of oneself. He has yet to prove he can be more than a bottom-pairing / power-play type of defenseman in the league in either place he has played. That's a hell of a long way away from being a "very good #2". That said, a 2nd round pick isn't unreasonable. I could see teams taking that gamble, although I wouldn't want my GM to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhanot (Post 58304191)
John-Michael Liles for a 2013 1st round pick

I can't see how Liles has done anything to improve his value since being traded to Toronto. He was coming off a 46-point campaign and was signed for another year and brought back a 2nd round pick. I don't believe that the additional year he has left on his deal now compared to then makes up for the decrease in production from him since. I don't see him returning a 1st, to say the very least.

voxel 01-25-2013 09:19 AM

No way JML fetches a first with his contract and play. Gunnarson maybe, but it depends on what he is asking for his next contract.

mcphllp 01-25-2013 09:20 AM

Franson is worth a 3rd at best. Hes pretty terrible

RealisticLeaf55 01-25-2013 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voxel (Post 58305041)
No way JML fetches a first with his contract and play. Gunnarson maybe, but it depends on what he is asking for his next contract.

I understand his value is not a first but he has been a very solid d-man for us. His contract certainly is not an issue with us either considering what he brings to the table.

Chandrashekhar Limit 01-25-2013 09:23 AM

BTW, why would the Leafs move Liles? Him and Gardiner are the only two PMD's we have, and Gardiner is just returning from a concussion. Did we already forget how atrocious we were at carrying the puck out of our zone in between Kaberle's departure and Gardiner's/Liles' arrival?

Add to that the fact that Liles' value isn't the best at the moment, and I see absolutely no reason to move him until another PMD is ready from our system.

Petes2424 01-25-2013 09:27 AM

The Franson deal would make the most sense for Detroit. I to am a Leaf fan that lived in Detroit for far to long and am very familiar with both teams.

RealisticLeaf55 01-25-2013 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 58304853)
For a 1st...i'd give up Gunnar.

the value is there but what Gunnar brings to us and how well he meshes to Carlyle's system, no reason to move him unless we are in full tank.

Liferleafer 01-25-2013 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealisticLeaf55 (Post 58305365)
the value is there but what Gunnar brings to us and how well he meshes to Carlyle's system, no reason to move him unless we are in full tank.

If we don't fix our goaltending, we are in tank mode without even knowing it. There is no way i turn down a 1st in this draft for Gunnar.

Petes2424 01-25-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 58305443)
If we don't fix our goaltending, we are in tank mode without even knowing it. There is no way i turn down a 1st in this draft for Gunnar.

Especially if it's Detroit's first this year. Their forwards have scored 2 goals in three games and they're horrible in their own end. Im guessing the Wings are in for a short season. But hey, they've been doubted before. Best organization in sports. They'll bounce back but just dont see it this year.

Liferleafer 01-25-2013 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petes2424 (Post 58305687)
Especially if it's Detroit's first this year. Their forwards have scored 2 goals in three games and they're horrible in their own end. Im guessing the Wings are in for a short season. But hey, they've been doubted before. Best organization in sports. They'll bounce back but just dont see it this year.

My thinking as well, just didn't want to say it.:laugh:

abhanot 01-25-2013 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vipers31 (Post 58305013)
I can't see how Liles has done anything to improve his value since being traded to Toronto. He was coming off a 46-point campaign and was signed for another year and brought back a 2nd round pick. I don't believe that the additional year he has left on his deal now compared to then makes up for the decrease in production from him since. I don't see him returning a 1st, to say the very least.

I was torn between a 2nd or first, but Liles had a very good year a year ago coming off the 46 point campaign, until his concussion. Its true, he hasn't been as sharp since then, so a 2nd or 3rd seems more than fair for him, I think I over-valued him a little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit (Post 58305195)
BTW, why would the Leafs move Liles? Him and Gardiner are the only two PMD's we have, and Gardiner is just returning from a concussion. Did we already forget how atrocious we were at carrying the puck out of our zone in between Kaberle's departure and Gardiner's/Liles' arrival?

Add to that the fact that Liles' value isn't the best at the moment, and I see absolutely no reason to move him until another PMD is ready from our system.

Leafs defence as stands:

Phaneuf-Kostka
Gardiner-Liles
Gunnarsson-Franson/Komisarek

Phaneuf, Kostka, Gardiner, Rielly, Percy, Blacker. All players who are above average offensively, albeit some may not be ready for the jump. But as I said, these scenarios as prime only if the Leafs are out of contention. No need to have Liles in that scenario, where a team like the Wings could really use him.

FifthLine 01-25-2013 09:51 AM

I'd rather do Gunnar + 3rd or something like that for Franzen

abhanot 01-25-2013 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunelYESco (Post 58306527)
I'd rather do Gunnar + 3rd or something like that for Franzen

I don't think the Wings are willing to let go of Franzen. Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Kronwall are among the most loved here in Detroit.

DatsyukToZetterberg 01-25-2013 10:27 AM

I don't think our first is even on the table. The fact that our pick is top 5 right now means that you better being offering something of significance to us otherwise the backlash of moving a lottery pick would be almost as bad as what happened to the leafs.

If history has taught us anything it's that panic trades are never the answer & us moving our first is most definitely a panic trade. We can look back and see how trading firsts has destroyed the leafs & the islanders and you guys are now just starting to return to some form of a competitive teams. Gunnersson is worth a first, a first in the 15-20 range+a mid prospect, this draft though I'm not sure I'd want to pay that price.

Long story short the wings first should be one of the untouchable items, joining Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Howard & Smith.

If we needed a PMD I'd consider the Liles trade, but we really don't need Franson as he wouldn't really have a big enough role for us. He'd really just be used on the PP, and we already have to try and find a babysitter for Quincey it might be hard to find another one.

Canadian Jesus 01-25-2013 10:52 AM

I can see the Leafs moving Liles or Franson but doubt they move Gunnarson

Chandrashekhar Limit 01-25-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abhanot (Post 58306489)
Leafs defence as stands:

Phaneuf-Kostka
Gardiner-Liles
Gunnarsson-Franson/Komisarek

Phaneuf, Kostka, Gardiner, Rielly, Percy, Blacker. All players who are above average offensively, albeit some may not be ready for the jump. But as I said, these scenarios as prime only if the Leafs are out of contention. No need to have Liles in that scenario, where a team like the Wings could really use him.

Having offensive ability and being able to carry the puck out of our own zone is not the same thing. Out of the guys you mentioned, only Gardiner and Liles have the ability to do that effectively, and consitently. Dion is pretty decent at it, but he is not your ideal puckmover.

Those prospects have that PMD potential, but none of them are ready. We need to wait until one of them shows they are capable of handling the puck moving duties at the NHL first. It's not like Liles' value is sky high at the moment. Even if we are out of contention, dealing him for a late 1st/2nd doesnt make any sense to me, seeing how we can probably get the same thing a year from now. Another advantage with waiting is that if Liles picks up his game in the meantime, we can get some more value out of him. So far, it looks like his legs are back. He should be able to have a 20-25 pt season.

OptimusReimer34 01-25-2013 04:12 PM

While I like the first and third proposals from the OP, I don't like the 2nd one. Is it fair value? Yes it probably is and it'd be hard to say no for a first for Gunnarson, but he is one of our most reliable stay at home D-man. I wouldn't trade him right now.

Pierre Dagenais 01-25-2013 04:14 PM

Detroit should stop trading away their 1st round picks. Time to rebuild that team.


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