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-   -   Joe Thorntons potential point totals and legacy? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1332627)

drs151 01-25-2013 11:43 AM

Joe Thorntons potential point totals and legacy?
 
Hes at approx 1100 career points, 33 years old been through 1.5 lockouts. The way guys are going now a days and considering he is primarily a play maker we could see him in the league until hes 40. If he manages to get 1500ish points all in the dead puck era how impressive would this be? He seems to be refreshed after the lockout. Remember what he did after the last one :sarcasm: But in all honesty his numbers are insane for this era. Could big Joe ever be regarded in the top 10 forwards of all time? top 25? top 50? where do you think his potential is at?

Bongo the Pirate 01-25-2013 11:47 AM

While his accomplishments so far are great, sadly none of it will matter if he is Cup-less. That is all that people will remember.

drs151 01-25-2013 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongo the Pirate (Post 58313373)
While his accomplishments so far are great, sadly none of it will matter if he is Cup-less. That is all that people will remember.

That does hurt a players legacy but I dont think it should that much. Its a team game and in todays NHl you need alot of luck to win the stanley cup. 1-4 players just cant take a team to the top. You pretty much need it all. With the parity in the leauge, I think in the future you will see many great players not win the cup in their careers. I honestly believe the importance of stanley cup=players legacy will not be as important as time goes on

Randomtask68 01-25-2013 11:56 AM

Joe Thornton Stats

Seasons with 50+ assists: 8

Seasons leading league in assists: 3 (Two 90+ assist seasons)

Seasons with 100+ points: 3

Seasons leading league in points: 1

Top ten point finishes: 5

Currently 38th overall in career assists at 762, getting into the top 20 would require almost 900 assists, and the majority of the top 20 played their primes during the 70s and 80s. Tough to say where he stacks up amongst the game's best, but despite a relatively slow start to his career (7 points in his rookie year) he has had a phenomenal career and should make his way into that top-20 list.

HabsHockey 01-25-2013 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bongo the Pirate (Post 58313373)
While his accomplishments so far are great, sadly none of it will matter if he is Cup-less. That is all that people will remember.

That makes no sense. There are many Hockey greats that don't have a cup win and are still revered to this day.

Crafton 01-25-2013 12:00 PM

terrible ventriloquist. really, one of the worst of all time. a stain on the tapestry of human endeavor.

Luigi Lemieux 01-25-2013 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drs151 (Post 58313803)
That does hurt a players legacy but I dont think it should that much. Its a team game and in todays NHl you need alot of luck to win the stanley cup. 1-4 players just cant take a team to the top. You pretty much need it all. With the parity in the leauge, I think in the future you will see many great players not win the cup in their careers. I honestly believe the importance of stanley cup=players legacy will not be as important as time goes on

It's not like he was on bad teams though. San Jose has been a contender year in and year out and Thornton's playoff performances have been lackluster. 86 pts in 113 playoff games is not good enough for someone of his talent. In any sport, championships matter. Dan Marino will never be remembered the way Joe Montana is.

Randomtask68 01-25-2013 12:02 PM

With the emphasis on goaltending and team defense, it can be very difficult for a forward, even of Joe Thornton's level, to bring his team a Cup. I agree with the other posters saying that a Cup-less career is a significant black mark on a player's resume. There are no more dynasties anymore, no one has even won back to back Cups since the Red Wings in the late 90's. From now on, hall of famers are going to be voted in with 0-2 cups most likely, no on from this era will be going in with 4+ or anything astronomical like in the past.

Rickety Cricket 01-25-2013 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton (Post 58313995)
terrible ventriloquist. really, one of the worst of all time. a stain on the tapestry of human endeavor.

He's an awful mail carrier too, but seems to be an average babysitter.

agent22red 01-25-2013 12:04 PM

Right now he is in the top 30-40 forwards of all time...

If he wins a cup, gets 900 assists and amasses 1400 points...I would put him in the top 20 forwards of all time.

I am rooting for all of this to happen. He is a pleasure to watch and a magician with the puck. Him and Brodeur are my favorite non Avs of all time.

drs151 01-25-2013 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomtask68 (Post 58313825)
Joe Thornton Stats

Seasons with 50+ assists: 8

Seasons leading league in assists: 3 (Two 90+ assist seasons)

Seasons with 100+ points: 3

Seasons leading league in points: 1

Top ten point finishes: 5

Currently 38th overall in career assists at 762, getting into the top 20 would require almost 900 assists, and the majority of the top 20 played their primes during the 70s and 80s. Tough to say where he stacks up amongst the game's best, but despite a relatively slow start to his career (7 points in his rookie year) he has had a phenomenal career and should make his way into that top-20 list.


Interesting that he has 762 assists. Jagr is almost at 1000 he will be the 11th. It would be insane if Thornton could reach 1000 assists. Defenitely possible if he plays until hes 39-40. And the way guys like Whitney, Selanne, Jagr, St Louis have played I would say its almost likely he will play until that age. Especially if he continues is good streak of health. 5 games missed since the last lockout. Hes also primarily a playmaker and does not rely on his speed or explosivness. All signs point towards a long career.

HockeyThoughts 01-25-2013 12:09 PM

Marcel Dionne

TAnnala 01-25-2013 12:11 PM

I don't believe Joe will be regarded a top-10 forward ever. Even if he played till his 45's.

That being said he will go down as one of the better playmakers of all-time. I say he is going to the Hall of Fame and will have his number retired by Sharks. There is enough recognition for him.

Fighter 01-25-2013 12:11 PM

If he doesn't win a Cup, his only legacy will be

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...tinman_joe.jpg

TAnnala 01-25-2013 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drs151 (Post 58314299)
Interesting that he has 762 assists. Jagr is almost at 1000 he will be the 11th. It would be insane if Thornton could reach 1000 assists. Defenitely possible if he plays until hes 39-40. And the way guys like Whitney, Selanne, Jagr, St Louis have played I would say its almost likely he will play until that age. Especially if he continues is good streak of health. 5 games missed since the last lockout. Hes also primarily a playmaker and does not rely on his speed or explosivness. All signs point towards a long career.

Even if there is players who play to old age these days they are still more of exception than the rule. So by no way is it likely to Thornton to be productive after 40 years. He could be, but it is not given. More likely he goes trough the normal regress.

Matt Damon 01-25-2013 12:18 PM

I often forget about Thornton and how great he really is and has been his whole career. Maybe because he plays in San Jose and I really don't catch any Shark games. Sure fire Hall of Famer regardless of play-off history and definitely a top 50 forward of all time.

Crease 01-25-2013 12:21 PM

Joe Thornton. One of the best playmakers of his era. He's a mortal lock for the HOF. What he does in the Playoffs between now and the day he retires will determine if we remember him as a Marcel Dionne or a Steve Yzerman.

drs151 01-25-2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAnnala (Post 58314645)
Even if there is players who play to old age these days they are still more of exception than the rule. So by no way is it likely to Thornton to be productive after 40 years. He could be, but it is not given. More likely he goes trough the normal regress.

true im not saying he will be productive after 40. But with his health history and style of play plus hes still producing at 33, I dont think 39-40 is a way out of this world prediction. Plus how many of those players that go through normal regression are/were at Thorntons level? But point taken, alot of factors and alot of time until he gets to 39-40. This might be more appropriate if hes still producing close to a ppg pace when hes 35-36 years old.

Matt Damon 01-25-2013 12:30 PM

1 more year under contract. Will be interesting if he re-signs and continues chasing the Cup with the Sharks or if he decides he'd have a better chance somewhere else.

Solmors 01-25-2013 12:42 PM

I would say the next three seasons (including the rest of this one) he is likely to be PPG still. In SJ 3/4 of his points are assists, so that would be 60 assists and 20 goals for 2 seasons, and 36 assists 12 goals this season. Then probably down to slightly under PPG, maybe 60-70 a season. Then lets say he retires at 39, so 3 of those seasons. Lets take the low side for the haters at 60 points per season, 45 assists and 15 goals.

Current totals:
Goals: 325
Assists: 762 (38th)
Points: 1087 (58th)

After above estimates:
Goals: 422
Assists: 1053 (8th)
Points: 1475 (14th)

I think he will be remembered at least as one of the top 20 forwards of all time, and one of the top 10 passers. Especially considering all the people above him played mostly in the open ice of the 80s, vs JT in the dead puck.

Also remember the lockouts, with another 116 games as a PPG (82 of those as a Bruin, 34 as a Shark), that would be another 54 assists 28 goals as a bruin, and 26 assists 8 goals as a shark (36g 80a 116p).

Bumping him to:
Goals: 458
Assists: 1133 (6th)
Points: 1591 (10th)

SmellOfVictory 01-25-2013 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Damon (Post 58315361)
1 more year under contract. Will be interesting if he re-signs and continues chasing the Cup with the Sharks or if he decides he'd have a better chance somewhere else.

They're still quite a strong team. It'd be cool to see him on the Hawks, however. That'd be a heck of a top 6.

Splitbtw 01-25-2013 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Damon (Post 58315361)
1 more year under contract. Will be interesting if he re-signs and continues chasing the Cup with the Sharks or if he decides he'd have a better chance somewhere else.

I don't think he will be going anywhere any time soon.

sharksohnoes! 01-25-2013 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Crafton (Post 58313995)
terrible ventriloquist. really, one of the worst of all time. a stain on the tapestry of human endeavor.

How DARE you, sir. He is bright light in an otherwise shadowy ventriloquist world. :rant:

http://d1l8737wcwfl1q.cloudfront.net...4679365401.jpg

SharksFan1 01-25-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drs151 (Post 58314299)
Interesting that he has 762 assists. Jagr is almost at 1000 he will be the 11th. It would be insane if Thornton could reach 1000 assists. Defenitely possible if he plays until hes 39-40. And the way guys like Whitney, Selanne, Jagr, St Louis have played I would say its almost likely he will play until that age. Especially if he continues is good streak of health. 5 games missed since the last lockout. Hes also primarily a playmaker and does not rely on his speed or explosivness. All signs point towards a long career.

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if he reaches 1000 by the time he is 37.

crowi 01-25-2013 12:55 PM

If Selšnne is barely in the top 50 (HF), then he isn't there.


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