HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   Proposal: Was-phi (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1332699)

Halpysback 01-25-2013 02:39 PM

Was-phi
 
Green + Brouwer + Perreault for Schenn brothers

Please don't hurt me.

Jumping 01-25-2013 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halpysback (Post 58319177)
Green + Brouwer + Perreault for Schenn brothers

Please don't hurt me.

Nobody's going to hurt you unless you are in a South Philly Starbucks and someone hits you over the head with your computer.

:)

DKQ 01-25-2013 04:38 PM

Not worth it for Washington IMO. Brayden is a good player who will likely develop into a good 2C, but Luke is not the top-4 shutdown presence you guys are looking for.

FlyingHigh28* 01-25-2013 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halpysback (Post 58319177)
Green + Brouwer + Perreault for Schenn brothers

Please don't hurt me.

Not. Even. Close.

Call me when Mike Green plays a full season and is actually effective. But don't come back before then.

Snotbubbles 01-25-2013 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn (Post 58326009)
Not worth it for Washington IMO. Brayden is a good player who will likely develop into a good 2C, but Luke is not the top-4 shutdown presence you guys are looking for.

Luke Schenn has actually looked good for Philly so far. I think he'll be a very good second pairing shutdown defenseman. I didn't really like the Schenn/JvR trade when it happened, but I can't say I hate it at the present moment anymore.

Halpysback 01-25-2013 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 (Post 58326135)
Not. Even. Close.

Call me when Mike Green plays a full season and is actually effective. But don't come back before then.

Eh it's pretty close, we threw Brouwer in there as well to replace Hartnell and Perreault for some depth. Philly seems to want a top pairing D and we're not touching Couturier who is precious and all.

I'd be willing to wait a full season for Green to prove himself before doing it.

Halpysback 01-25-2013 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn (Post 58326009)
Not worth it for Washington IMO. Brayden is a good player who will likely develop into a good 2C, but Luke is not the top-4 shutdown presence you guys are looking for.

I'm looking for a better Matt Greene from Luke in his prime and a better Jarret Stoll from Brayden in his prime.

On my ideal cup contending team Schenn would be on the 3rd line and the other Schenn would be on the 3rd pairing, but those would be a hell of a line and a hell of a pairing.

Hivemind 01-25-2013 05:18 PM

Not worth it for Washington until Orlov shows he can take the next step.

OCPenguin 01-25-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halpysback (Post 58319177)
Green + Brouwer + Perreault for Schenn brothers

Please don't hurt me.


Green isn't good anymore ... he is fragile. I fail to see why anyone would want the Schenn brothers to begin with.

FlyersFan61290 01-25-2013 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCPenguin (Post 58328413)
Green isn't good anymore ... he is fragile. I fail to see why anyone would want the Schenn brothers to begin with.

:laugh:

Pretty sure that's cause you're a biased pen's fan.

SheasRebellion6 01-25-2013 06:18 PM

Flyers say no. I don't think there is a deal to be made between these two team, IMO.

Fair Value if Green could stay healthy. However, you're putting a lot of money on a risky bet. In more ways than one.

Halpysback 01-25-2013 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SheasRebellion6 (Post 58330845)
Flyers say no. I don't think there is a deal to be made between these two team, IMO.

Fair Value if Green could stay healthy. However, you're putting a lot of money on a risky bet. In more ways than one.

Strange, I'd have thought Flyers would be very interested in Green. Laviolette's system is predicated on good puck movement from the defense, hence him making Carle look so much better than he was. Right now, their defensemen with offensive capabilities are Coburn, Timonen and Meszaros, and Coburn and Meszaros aren't really puck movers and Timonen is getting up there in age. With the trade going down they'd have Coburn-Green/Grossman-Timonen/Meszaros-Bourdon, and still Giroux-Briere-Couturier at center with Brouwer probably replacing Schenn adequately this season at least.

Guess I'm not seeing it right.

NitHeel 01-25-2013 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halpysback (Post 58332765)
Strange, I'd have thought Flyers would be very interested in Green. Laviolette's system is predicated on good puck movement from the defense, hence him making Carle look so much better than he was. Right now, their defensemen with offensive capabilities are Coburn, Timonen and Meszaros, and Coburn and Meszaros aren't really puck movers and Timonen is getting up there in age. With the trade going down they'd have Coburn-Green/Grossman-Timonen/Meszaros-Bourdon, and still Giroux-Briere-Couturier at center with Brouwer probably replacing Schenn adequately this season at least.

Guess I'm not seeing it right.

A PMD would be a great fit, I think everyone's on the same page there. I just don't think most have any faith he's going to stay healthy.

The Couturier Effect 01-25-2013 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halpysback (Post 58332765)
Strange, I'd have thought Flyers would be very interested in Green. Laviolette's system is predicated on good puck movement from the defense, hence him making Carle look so much better than he was. Right now, their defensemen with offensive capabilities are Coburn, Timonen and Meszaros, and Coburn and Meszaros aren't really puck movers and Timonen is getting up there in age. With the trade going down they'd have Coburn-Green/Grossman-Timonen/Meszaros-Bourdon, and still Giroux-Briere-Couturier at center with Brouwer probably replacing Schenn adequately this season at least.

Guess I'm not seeing it right.

No you are seeing the Flyers needs right. What you're not seeing is the fact that Green has 1 point in his last 28 regular season games. Plus, he can't stay healthy. Why would the Flyers trade away one of their best prospects and a pretty decent defensman for someone like that?

EDIT: 3 points in last 29 games...just got 2 against Jersey...doesn't really change anything though.

Hockeypete49 01-25-2013 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumping (Post 58325839)
Nobody's going to hurt you unless you are in a South Philly Starbucks and someone hits you over the head with your computer.

:)

Really!

Halpysback 01-26-2013 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyersFan8828 (Post 58340995)
No you are seeing the Flyers needs right. What you're not seeing is the fact that Green has 1 point in his last 28 regular season games. Plus, he can't stay healthy. Why would the Flyers trade away one of their best prospects and a pretty decent defensman for someone like that?

EDIT: 3 points in last 29 games...just got 2 against Jersey...doesn't really change anything though.

Why regular season? Why not count the playoffs? It seems like an arbitrary cutoff to make him seem worse.

Also, things to consider - he got most of those 28 games coming back from the same abdominal surgery Briere once had. And he came into a system that basically restricted offense from defensemen to 0. If we're looking at more pertinent numbers it's 2 points in 4 games on a team that is extremely disorganized and offensively inept at the moment.

Not saying he's a world-beater but people are making him seem like cheechoo on defense, which simply isn't accurate.

I'll take your word for not being interested in the trade though.

FlyingHigh28* 01-26-2013 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halpysback (Post 58327741)
Eh it's pretty close, we threw Brouwer in there as well to replace Hartnell and Perreault for some depth. Philly seems to want a top pairing D and we're not touching Couturier who is precious and all.

I'd be willing to wait a full season for Green to prove himself before doing it.

No, it's honestly not even close. In the offseason, if my memory serves me correctly, you proposed JVR for Mike Green; no add ons on either side. Flyers fans rejected that trade.

We subsequently traded JVR one for one across for Luke Schenn. While I think the Flyers could've gotten slightly more for JVR and didn't love the trade, the difference in value there isn't Brayden Schenn, nor does Brouwer + Perreault = Brayden Schenn, so this trade is even worse than your previous attempt.

Also, rather than attempting to look at 4 games this season (since Green conveniently had 2 points today) or attempting to arbitrarily cherry pick stats, let's just look at Green's last 82 games, the vast majority of which were played on teams that made the playoffs. During those last 82 games, Mike Green has 10 goals and 19 assists for 29 points. Not bad, but is that anywhere near good enough to justify the return you're talking about? No.

Also, Mike Green's quality of competition seems to show that he hasn't been used as a #1 defenseman for several seasons now.

Mike Green might've improved his defense, but he's still a liability. So if he's not scoring points, he's not all that valuable. And even when he's been healthy, he hasn't been putting up the totals that he used to and he likely never will again. And the second key thing there is the phrase "when he's been healthy", because he's missed more games than he's played the past 2 years and I'm pretty sure he himself described his groin problem as "chronic".

And all that brings me to his massive 6M+ cap hit. That's an awful lot of cap to use up on a guy w/ injury problems and who hasn't been all that productive these past few years even when healthy.

So yeah, it's a pretty solid no from the Flyers, as I said in my first post.

capitalsrock 01-26-2013 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 (Post 58369459)
No, it's honestly not even close. In the offseason, if my memory serves me correctly, you proposed JVR for Mike Green; no add ons on either side. Flyers fans rejected that trade.

We subsequently traded JVR one for one across for Luke Schenn. While I think the Flyers could've gotten slightly more for JVR and didn't love the trade, the difference in value there isn't Brayden Schenn, nor does Brouwer + Perreault = Brayden Schenn, so this trade is even worse than your previous attempt.

Also, rather than attempting to look at 4 games this season (since Green conveniently had 2 points today) or attempting to arbitrarily cherry pick stats, let's just look at Green's last 82 games, the vast majority of which were played on teams that made the playoffs. During those last 82 games, Mike Green has 10 goals and 19 assists for 29 points. Not bad, but is that anywhere near good enough to justify the return you're talking about? No.

Also, Mike Green's quality of competition seems to show that he hasn't been used as a #1 defenseman for several seasons now.

Mike Green might've improved his defense, but he's still a liability. So if he's not scoring points, he's not all that valuable. And even when he's been healthy, he hasn't been putting up the totals that he used to and he likely never will again. And the second key thing there is the phrase "when he's been healthy", because he's missed more games than he's played the past 2 years and I'm pretty sure he himself described his groin problem as "chronic".

And all that brings me to his massive 6M+ cap hit. That's an awful lot of cap to use up on a guy w/ injury problems and who hasn't been all that productive these past few years even when healthy.

So yeah, it's a pretty solid no from the Flyers, as I said in my first post.

lol the caps never offered Mike Green for JVR and Green never used the word "chronic".

The value is definitely close and he is not a liability.

Mike Green clearly will return to his old form and has been playing pretty well this season and has been one of our better players.

Oates is finally giving Green a chance on our top line because he is a top line defender and that's where he should be alongside Alzner.

FlyingHigh28* 01-26-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalsrock (Post 58380359)
lol the caps never offered Mike Green for JVR and Green never used the word "chronic".

The value is definitely close and he is not a liability.

Mike Green clearly will return to his old form and has been playing pretty well this season and has been one of our better players.

Oates is finally giving Green a chance on our top line because he is a top line defender and that's where he should be alongside Alzner.

The original poster in this thread, Halpysback, actually did offer Green for JVR. I never claimed that the Capitals actually offered it, simply that the OP did so.

Also, as to Green's injury not being chronic, Green said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Green
I think I’m going to have to be cognizant of this for the rest of my career, probably,” the Washington Capitals All-Star defenseman said. “This is something that you’ve got to take care of, especially with hockey. It’s such a common thing. It’s just maintenance right now. Making sure that I’m on top of my stuff and I’m getting better. I don’t think I’ll be 100 percent for a long time, but just got to get to that stage where I can play.


SimplySensational 01-26-2013 08:53 PM

If the Caps trade with Flyers, I want Voracek.

I wanted him last year too.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:16 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.