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-   -   Tampa Bay Rays not long for this world? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1332789)

blueandgoldguy 01-25-2013 04:30 PM

Tampa Bay Rays not long for this world?
 
Interesting. Just read this article at the Tsn.ca website regarding recent comments made by Bud Selig and Rays' owner Stuart Sternberg.

From the article:

Well for the second time in less than six months Commissioner Bud Selig has come out with a pronouncement on how disappointed he is in the fan support the Tampa Bay Rays are getting. Rays owner Stuart Sternberg was quoted by John Heyman of CBS as saying "Major League Baseball no longer considers Tampa Bay as a baseball locale".

Selig points out the Rays have the second-best winning percentage in the American League over the past five years and made it to one World Series, yet continue to struggle to draw fans. The Rays drew 1,559,681 fans last season, dead last in the Majors.

Part of this is a power play. The Rays are trying to pressure the taxpayers and the state government to kick in for a state of the art stadium for the Rays, much like the one the Marlins moved into last season in Miami


http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/story/?id=414429

The article primarily deals with the questions as to whether Montreal could support MLB once again. I think it's pretty iffy at best. While I hear there are ongoing discussions of a new baseball stadium in Montreal, these are preliminary and not all that serious.

Is the situation in Tampa that dire? I thought with revenue sharing the team is turning a profit, especially with such a low payroll.

Also, are there any other cities with aspirations of hosting a MLB team? And in those cities are they anywhere past the point of preliminary discussions of building a 30,000+ seat baseball facility and how it will be funded?

Good luck with getting significant state or city taxpayer funding for a new Tampa baseball stadium after that debacle in Miami. Once bitten, twice shy.

MurrayBannerman 01-25-2013 04:42 PM

They'll move within the US. I doubt Montreal gets a team, unless the MLB expands. Which seems likely.

Oscar Acosta 01-25-2013 05:07 PM

What about Charlotte or Raleigh?

El Dandy* 01-25-2013 05:10 PM

INB4 the token HF Rays fan comes in and blames the economy and claims Tampa is a baseball town etc etc

Modo 01-25-2013 05:16 PM

After the Marlins completely decimated their roster, Selig goes after the Rays?

On second thought, yep, that seems like something he'd do. :shakehead

MurrayBannerman 01-25-2013 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta (Post 58327485)
What about Charlotte or Raleigh?

I'd say Charlotte and Richmond are the two most likely locations.

Joe T Choker 01-25-2013 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta (Post 58327485)
What about Charlotte or Raleigh?

Charlotte has already broke ground on a new park with a capacity of 10,000 ... mark them off the list ... down to a few cities (Raleigh, Nashville (38th ranked MSA) *doubtful*, Vegas (realignment), Portland OR (retractable roof)) ... Richmond (43rd MSA)

X0X0A0 01-25-2013 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbow Express (Post 58327635)
INB4 the token HF Rays fan comes in and blames the economy and claims Tampa is a baseball town etc etc

Not this one. I want the Rays gone ASAP. Just give us Single A baseball at Al Lang stadium (Easily one of the best minor league parks I've been to) and I'm happy. I'm sick of Sternberg whining about a stadium. If he comes up with a plan that involves 100% private money I might change my mind.

This is a Yankee town anyway, there are even Yankee games broadcasted on the radio here.

Mr Fahrenheit 01-25-2013 06:58 PM

And to think the Giants almost got moved to Tampa in 93

PanthersPens62 01-25-2013 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Modo (Post 58327931)
After the Marlins completely decimated their roster, Selig goes after the Rays?

On second thought, yep, that seems like something he'd do. :shakehead

Miami is the gateway to Latin America, thus Uncle Bud sees it as a market that CAN work.....its just that we've had horrible ownership since the early days of Wayne Huizenga.

robert terwilliger 01-25-2013 09:11 PM

plus, loria is playing by bud's rules.

AdmiralsFan24 01-25-2013 11:05 PM

Seems like Portland would be the best option.

http://www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com/

Big McLargehuge 01-26-2013 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 (Post 58359815)
Seems like Portland would be the best option.

http://www.oregonstadiumcampaign.com/

Seattle gets a NHL team and Portland gets a MLB team...I'd love it.

No Fun Shogun 01-26-2013 03:54 AM

Portland shot itself in the foot by giving the Beavers the boot to renovate their stadium in order to bring in an MLS team.

Charlotte's gotta be the front runner. I've been saying for a while now that we'll probably see the Carolina Rays sooner rather than later. Plus, no need for any messy realignment, too.

Big McLargehuge 01-26-2013 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun (Post 58371009)
Portland shot itself in the foot by giving the Beavers the boot to renovate their stadium in order to bring in an MLS team.

Charlotte's gotta be the front runner. I've been saying for a while now that we'll probably see the Carolina Rays sooner rather than later. Plus, no need for any messy realignment, too.

Charlotte isn't going to be an option until the Bobcats stop being the biggest embarrassment in sports and the Panthers pick up a ton of steam.


Actually, who am I kidding? Charlotte isn't an option until they build a Major League stadium. On the same note...neither is Portland. Portland ditched their minor league baseball stadium for a Major League Soccer stadium...I don't seen an issue there. Portland still have well over a century of baseball history, that just proved that they're a Major League city more than a minor league city. Their support of the Timbers can only be seen as a good thing. Minor league baseball just isn't entertaining unless you're a fan of one of those ******** franchises that just pull endless stunts...and in that case you're paying for a circus more than you're paying for baseball anyway.

That and I just see Portland as Seattle's punk cousin while Charlotte is more of an HO scale east coast version of Phoenix (I'll reserve the San Diego comparison for teams in Virginia)...too many transplants. It's not a very good sports city. The triangle of research is much better in terms of sports fans, but Raleigh isn't big enough for a MLB team.


At the end of the day it's going to come down to who's going to build a stadium...and that's really anyone's guess. I just think Portland is in a better position to actually do so...but I can see Charlotte as being far more willing to do so. I can very easily see the Carolina Rays...I just don't think they'll be much better off than the Tampa Bay Rays in terms of fan support. They'll still wind up with half of their fan base saying it's too much of a pain in the ass to go to the stadium.

BPR* 01-26-2013 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge (Post 58371273)
At the end of the day it's going to come down to who's going to build a stadium...and that's really anyone's guess. I just think Portland is in a better position to actually do so...but I can see Charlotte as being far more willing to do so. I can very easily see the Carolina Rays...I just don't think they'll be much better off than the Tampa Bay Rays in terms of fan support. They'll still wind up with half of their fan base saying it's too much of a pain in the ass to go to the stadium.

With the way most municipal and state budgets currently look, I can't imagine anyone is looking to build a new stadium. On top of that, Loria has made sure public opinion has never been more negative towards the idea of publicly financing a stadium. I personally think that if the Rays insist on a new stadium to relocate (and they probably will) that they're stuck for the time being.

Joe T Choker 01-26-2013 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun (Post 58371009)
Portland shot itself in the foot by giving the Beavers the boot to renovate their stadium in order to bring in an MLS team.

Charlotte's gotta be the front runner. I've been saying for a while now that we'll probably see the Carolina Rays sooner rather than later. Plus, no need for any messy realignment, too.

Not with a 10,000 seat stadium ... unless something has changed in the last 24 hours that I don't know about ... any Hurricanes fans care to elaborate ? ... It seems to be down to Nashville & Raleigh ... I wouldn't mind the Rays relocating there ... I would definitely visit

GKJ 01-26-2013 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Fahrenheit (Post 58333029)
And to think the Giants almost got moved to Tampa in 93

White Sox before that

Blackhawkswincup 01-26-2013 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKJ (Post 58375377)
White Sox before that

Yep came down to the wire with that one

Thankfully JR was buddy buddy with Gov and a few Senators downstate who pushed thru the bill to build stadium

Before that Selig tried to buy team to move to Milwaukee back in day ,, Eddie Debartillo (Spelling?) wanted to move team to New Orleans before MLB blocked his purchace of White Sox

Also had the near swap in 70's with A's

A's would have moved to Chicago , White Sox move to Seattle

blueandgoldguy 01-26-2013 02:53 PM

Sounds like Selig's and Sternberg's threats are rather idle as there doesn't appear to any other cities in North America willing to foot the bill for a 35,000 seat stadium. At least not for the forseeable future.

Tampa should be safe for the next 5 years minimum.

robert terwilliger 01-26-2013 02:59 PM

any stadium needs to be privately funded.

http://deadspin.com/5978964/the-real...n-the-billions

guinness 01-27-2013 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert terwilliger (Post 58387701)
any stadium needs to be privately funded.

http://deadspin.com/5978964/the-real...n-the-billions

In a perfect world, sure.

However, owners have money because they aren't stupid. If they can sucker the local government and taxpayers to do it for them, all the better.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Rays in Nashville or Raliegh, the latter seeing that the AAA team is already in Durham, but I doubt either area has the immediate facilities to do it.

Big McLargehuge 01-27-2013 02:04 PM

No city has the immediate facilities to do it right now. Outside of a potential temporary home while a new stadium gets built there are no ready-made options out there.

What is generally considered to be the best stadium in AAA holds about 14,220 in Indianapolis (with standing room) and is the 2nd largest stadium in the International League. Durham holds 10,000. Charlotte is opening a new stadium in 2014 that will hold 10,000. There's only two minor league stadiums that hold over 15,000 - Buffalo's stadium from 1986 that holds about 18,000 and Salt Lake City's from 1994 that holds a bit over 15,000. For what it's worth Portland's stadium held about 17,000 for baseball...but was built in the 20s and was in desperate need of being replaced.

None of these are options to be build over or expanded. Charlotte's isn't even done being built yet. An entirely new stadium would have to be built anywhere. When Portland re-configured to be a MLS stadium they were only able to get the capacity up to about 20,500 seats in the limited area they had to work with.


It is extremely hard to see a city publicly financing a stadium right now - especially without the guarantee of having a team (and the team isn't going to move anywhere without the promise of a stadium). Between the economic conditions and the bitter taste left in everyone's mouth over the Miami disgrace...any stadium would have to be built mostly by private funding...and there just aren't too many owners willing to do that.

Now maybe that will change since baseball stadiums can be built for far less than what Miami paid if they don't have a roof and even C-list franchises are shooting through the roof in value ($800 million for the Padres still blows my mind), but I still can't see it happening within a 5 year window.

blueandgoldguy 01-27-2013 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge (Post 58454863)
No city has the immediate facilities to do it right now. Outside of a potential temporary home while a new stadium gets built there are no ready-made options out there.

What is generally considered to be the best stadium in AAA holds about 14,220 in Indianapolis (with standing room) and is the 2nd largest stadium in the International League. Durham holds 10,000. Charlotte is opening a new stadium in 2014 that will hold 10,000. There's only two minor league stadiums that hold over 15,000 - Buffalo's stadium from 1986 that holds about 18,000 and Salt Lake City's from 1994 that holds a bit over 15,000. For what it's worth Portland's stadium held about 17,000 for baseball...but was built in the 20s and was in desperate need of being replaced.

None of these are options to be build over or expanded. Charlotte's isn't even done being built yet. An entirely new stadium would have to be built anywhere. When Portland re-configured to be a MLS stadium they were only able to get the capacity up to about 20,500 seats in the limited area they had to work with.


It is extremely hard to see a city publicly financing a stadium right now - especially without the guarantee of having a team (and the team isn't going to move anywhere without the promise of a stadium). Between the economic conditions and the bitter taste left in everyone's mouth over the Miami disgrace...any stadium would have to be built mostly by private funding...and there just aren't too many owners willing to do that.

Now maybe that will change since baseball stadiums can be built for far less than what Miami paid if they don't have a roof and even C-list franchises are shooting through the roof in value ($800 million for the Padres still blows my mind), but I still can't see it happening within a 5 year window.

Agreed. Selig and Sternberg have little, if any, leverage at this point.

DaveG 01-27-2013 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta (Post 58327485)
What about Charlotte or Raleigh?

There was rumor years back about the Winston-Salem/Greensboro area getting the Twins when relocation was a threat there. Wouldn't shock me if MLB started barking up that tree again.

Durham's not going to expand the Bulls park. And where the Carolina Mudcats play out in the sticks probably isn't going to be an option, though they at least have room to expand by a good bit. Finding the funding for a downtown stadium in Raleigh (expensive) or Durham (expensive or total ****hole area) is going to be hard to pull off unless a high percentage of it is private. The only way the Canes were able to swing what they were is that NC State also uses PNC Arena and it's out somewhat in the middle of nowhere (relatively speaking) by Carter-Finley stadium.

Neither of Winston-Salem or Greensboro is as affluent as Raleigh, but the room is there for a stadium that won't cost a ridiculous amount, and it's the somewhat centrally located of the 3 decent sized metro areas of NC.


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