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-   -   Proposal: Stl - phi (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1333253)

Schenn Bros Pizza* 01-26-2013 01:07 AM

Stl - phi
 
What would it take to pry Stewart and Shattenkirk from the Blues?


Would Schenn + Schenn + 2013 1st be close?

Flame all you want, just curious if it could be done.

CoachBadkitten 01-26-2013 01:12 AM

Johnson, Mcclement, and a 1st :sarcasm:

I doubt they move Shattenkirk though. He is a stud on their blue line and plays great behind Piet.

bleedblue1223 01-26-2013 01:13 AM

No means no.

7even 01-26-2013 01:16 AM

St. Louis is about one top 4 defenseman away from having arguably the best team in the league, and I'm not sure they want to be subtracting from that core.

It's a cool idea though -- I think both Schenns (Luke in particular) would shine in St. Louis' system.

Vankiller Whale 01-26-2013 01:20 AM

It could make sense, but I think swapping Shattenkirk for Luke Schenn would be too great a risk to shake up their D corps.

rumrokh 01-26-2013 01:55 AM

The Blues are in a win-now mode, so picks and future value don't mean much. They also highly value speed and puck movement on the back end. Luke Schenn is good, but in general and especially for the Blues' purposes, Shattenkirk is way more valuable.

I like Brayden Schenn, but he wouldn't slot ahead of Backes or Berglund right now, and they aren't splitting up McDonald-Steen-Tarasenko, so he wouldn't crack their top 9. In a year or two, he could be exactly what the Blues need, but not at the cost of Shattenkirk.

A deal around Brayden Schenn and Chris Stewart is something worth exploring. I bet the Blues want to see what Stewart is made of this season, though, before they trade him.

STLBLUES44 01-26-2013 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrokh (Post 58370125)
The Blues are in a win-now mode, so picks and future value don't mean much. They also highly value speed and puck movement on the back end. Luke Schenn is good, but in general and especially for the Blues' purposes, Shattenkirk is way more valuable.

I like Brayden Schenn, but he wouldn't slot ahead of Backes or Berglund right now, and they aren't splitting up McDonald-Steen-Tarasenko, so he wouldn't crack their top 9. In a year or two, he could be exactly what the Blues need, but not at the cost of Shattenkirk.

A deal around Brayden Schenn and Chris Stewart is something worth exploring. I bet the Blues want to see what Stewart is made of this season, though, before they trade him.

yeah no chance we would replace shatty with Luke Schenn lmao. But I sure as hell wouldn't mind a stewart and brayden schenn deal. not that the flyers would do that tho. I'm sure the OP had Shatty as the "main piece" from the blues.

Schenn Bros Pizza* 01-26-2013 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STLBLUES44 (Post 58370917)
yeah no chance we would replace shatty with Luke Schenn lmao. But I sure as hell wouldn't mind a stewart and brayden schenn deal. not that the flyers would do that tho. I'm sure the OP had Shatty as the "main piece" from the blues.

Yeah Shatty definitely the main piece. He is what the Flyguys need. Stewart is what I imagine as a Flyers player. I would kill to have those two on my team.

rumrokh 01-26-2013 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kangiroux (Post 58371275)
Yeah Shatty definitely the main piece. He is what the Flyguys need.

Should have drafted Hamilton over Couturier, then. ;)

Oshie97 01-26-2013 03:27 AM

Shatty is going nowhere, playing great and seems to fit Hitch's system perfect. Downgrading from Shattenkirk to Schenn is not going to happen when we are a cup contender.

TheBleedingEdge 01-26-2013 03:35 AM

When I look back Im still stunned at that trade. I dont believe Colorado knew what they had in Shattenkirk fully.

2 Minute Minor 01-26-2013 03:53 AM

If you start with the assumption that the Blues are a legit Cup contender this season (and 2 points off the Presidents Cup pace last season) then you'll see that they aren't going to do any trade that detracts from the team on the ice this season even if the overall value is favorable. I think that will get you to where you're going to go in this discussion.

Trades the Blues would do:
quantity for an upgrade at center
quantity for an upgrade at LHD (Pietro's partner)
they can probably take on SOME salary, but not a heck of a lot

I see no trade from Philly that is going to look anything close to that. Frankly, the Blues are in a pretty tough position to manage with a trade partner. Maybe later in the season when a couple teams have thrown in the towel and decided to embrace the rebuild, there could be a possible trade partner.

Schenn Bros Pizza* 01-26-2013 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor (Post 58371577)
If you start with the assumption that the Blues are a legit Cup contender this season (and 2 points off the Presidents Cup pace last season) then you'll see that they aren't going to do any trade that detracts from the team on the ice this season even if the overall value is favorable. I think that will get you to where you're going to go in this discussion.

Trades the Blues would do:
quantity for an upgrade at center
quantity for an upgrade at LHD (Pietro's partner)
they can probably take on SOME salary, but not a heck of a lot

I see no trade from Philly that is going to look anything close to that. Frankly, the Blues are in a pretty tough position to manage with a trade partner. Maybe later in the season when a couple teams have thrown in the towel and decided to embrace the rebuild, there could be a possible trade partner.

Yah, I hear that. I picked the Blues to make it to the finals from the West. I'm just trying to see what it would take.

JustOneB4IDie 01-26-2013 05:49 AM

Uh, no... Shatty isn't going anywhere. Stewart for Brayden Schenn? Perhaps.

rumrokh 01-26-2013 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBleedingEdge (Post 58371441)
When I look back Im still stunned at that trade. I dont believe Colorado knew what they had in Shattenkirk fully.

I don't remember it word for word, but in a radio interview just following the trade, Armstrong talked about how the trade developed. He and Sherman are friends and at various times since the beginning of the season, over dinner or whatever, they had talked about a trade between the Blues and Avalanche. Apparently Sherman eventually expressed admiration of/interest in EJ and was shocked that Armstrong was open to it. He was also apparently surprised that Shattenkirk was the dealbreaker. Armstrong said absolutely no deal if they weren't getting Shatty. As complimentary of Stewart as Armstrong was in that interview, he didn't indicate the same about Stewart.

It makes me think that each side saw a different player as the key component; and even though Stewart had absolutely torn up the Blues to that point, it's possible Sherman offered more than Armstrong needed to agree.

Plus, there are other indications that Armstrong came very prepared into that deal: 1. He saw Shatty a lot as Cole's US National Development partner, and 2. based on the conditions of the pick swap, look at the top 10 draft choices in 2011, and then who was chosen from 11th overall to when the Blues got Rattie and Jaskin in the 2nd. Some great players in the top 10, only a couple standouts after that, otherwise a ridiculously even field.
EJ is still a good player and Stewart has been the definition of up and down, but there are a lot of signs that you're right about what Armstrong knew and Sherman possibly did not.

Mike Liut 01-26-2013 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBleedingEdge (Post 58371441)
When I look back Im still stunned at that trade. I dont believe Colorado knew what they had in Shattenkirk fully.


If the Av's offered EJ back to the Blues for Shattenkirk, the Blues would politely decline. Shattenkirk is a hell of a player

BinCookin 01-26-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumrokh (Post 58372767)
I don't remember it word for word, but in a radio interview just following the trade, Armstrong talked about how the trade developed. He and Sherman are friends and at various times since the beginning of the season, over dinner or whatever, they had talked about a trade between the Blues and Avalanche. Apparently Sherman eventually expressed admiration of/interest in EJ and was shocked that Armstrong was open to it. He was also apparently surprised that Shattenkirk was the dealbreaker. Armstrong said absolutely no deal if they weren't getting Shatty. As complimentary of Stewart as Armstrong was in that interview, he didn't indicate the same about Stewart.

It makes me think that each side saw a different player as the key component; and even though Stewart had absolutely torn up the Blues to that point, it's possible Sherman offered more than Armstrong needed to agree.

Plus, there are other indications that Armstrong came very prepared into that deal: 1. He saw Shatty a lot as Cole's US National Development partner, and 2. based on the conditions of the pick swap, look at the top 10 draft choices in 2011, and then who was chosen from 11th overall to when the Blues got Rattie and Jaskin in the 2nd. Some great players in the top 10, only a couple standouts after that, otherwise a ridiculously even field.
EJ is still a good player and Stewart has been the definition of up and down, but there are a lot of signs that you're right about what Armstrong knew and Sherman possibly did not.

I was just a fan at the time. Hockey fan (DRW fan to be precise)

EJ was a former 1st under performing in St.L. (I could see why he could be traded)

Stewart had alot of goals that year (or previous year) for Colorado but also broke his hand a few times in fights.
Shattenkirk was emerging as a pretty good point producing defenseman.

When i heard the deal, I couldn't believe it. I thought Colorado was going to regret it.
So far I would say both stewart and shattenkirk have continued to improve since colorado, and EJ continues to be an underperforming first rounder. Colorado losses the trade HUGE!


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