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echlfreak 01-26-2013 12:28 PM

PK Subban
 
PK Subban is being offered 2 yrs $5.1M by MTL. A $4.5M offer sheet would cost merely a 1st and a 3rd round pick. Why wouldn't the Canes try?

Faulk and PK for the next 5 years?

Gr8Dan 01-26-2013 12:29 PM

Montreal would easily match

Anton Dubinchuk 01-26-2013 12:36 PM

I'm not sure about that. Montreal doesn't necessarily have a huge amount of cap room. A $5 mil offer sheet would still be a 1st and 3rd, I believe, and I think that's a hit we could swallow for a player like Subban (trading away Corvo for future considerations to whoever would take him to lessen the monetary blow).

I mean let's be honest, it's not gonna happen, but that's not to say it COULDN'T happen. I'm not completely sure Montreal wouldn't match, and even if they did all we'd be doing is screwing over their cap and making them sign a kid for $2.5 mil more than they want to.

No reason not to try in my opinion. Not the most mature kid, and he's going to a team where the oldest guy is also the least mature, so maybe some issues might arise from there. But I doubt it'd be a problem.

DO IT JR!!!

Lazyking 01-26-2013 12:42 PM

If we make the playoffs, that first has considerable less value considering how well we've drafted lately. I'd take a shot on Subban.

bleedgreen 01-26-2013 12:43 PM

Am I the only one that finds pk to be overrated and with an excess amount of drama?

I just don't get the fuss with that guy.

We would likely new to move out similar salary as well.

Lazyking 01-26-2013 12:46 PM

I think he's a diva but he would definitely help our D core. That's five good to decent defensemen out of our six.

DaveG 01-26-2013 12:47 PM

Right, that's the big thing that makes it worth taking a shot. Before the buyout of Gomez was allowed early I was honestly surprised someone hadn't taken a run at him.

As for the value of firsts, here's some info a Jets fan (Grind) came up with earlier this summer that I added a bit to:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1298875

In essence giving up a first and a third for Subban is adding a top 4 (arguably top pairing) dman and giving up not just a likely bust in a 3rd, but a likely bust of a 1st based on where the team would most likely finish the season if we were to add PK.

tarheelhockey 01-26-2013 12:48 PM

As noted in a similar discussion in another thread PK would be another puck-moving RHD. So we'd not only be shutting out Corvo, but also relegating McBain to the third pairing forever and cutting off Murphy.

Not to say I wouldn't still do it, but similar to acquiring Jordan we would basically be making an organizational commitment to the guy.

jhjhjhjhjhjh* 01-26-2013 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk (Post 58383407)
I'm not sure about that. Montreal doesn't necessarily have a huge amount of cap room. A $5 mil offer sheet would still be a 1st and 3rd, I believe, and I think that's a hit we could swallow for a player like Subban (trading away Corvo for future considerations to whoever would take him to lessen the monetary blow).

I mean let's be honest, it's not gonna happen, but that's not to say it COULDN'T happen. I'm not completely sure Montreal wouldn't match, and even if they did all we'd be doing is screwing over their cap and making them sign a kid for $2.5 mil more than they want to.

No reason not to try in my opinion. Not the most mature kid, and he's going to a team where the oldest guy is also the least mature, so maybe some issues might arise from there. But I doubt it'd be a problem.

DO IT JR!!!

That wouldn't at all screw us up financially, if you don't know anything about Montreal don't bother to talk about them.

Lazyking 01-26-2013 12:55 PM

Mcbain doesn't have top pairing talent anyway and with Murphy, the Canes could possibly move Pitts when Murphy is ready.

Honestly, I would rather get another stay at home defensemen but Subban here, opens other moves that can be made.

bleedgreen 01-26-2013 01:12 PM

I think long term muller would change the look of the d overall. One good thing about such a move is that te wheels would start moving quicker because of this. I would think if we started from scratch muller would want more actual defenseman in our group. Pk is a definite improvement for the right side. I don't think Murphy is close so I don't think it matters. Likely mcbain or murph would go back the other way in whatever package we gave them. Pitts and Gleason on the left, Faulk and pk on the right. I get it. Pk just seems to have such a fuss about him all the time. I'm sure he'd grow on me.

tarheelhockey 01-26-2013 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazyking (Post 58384397)
Mcbain doesn't have top pairing talent anyway and with Murphy, the Canes could possibly move Pitts when Murphy is ready.

McBain does have second-pairing talent, though. Putting a guy like him on the 3rd pair forever, with no realistic hope of surpassing Subban and Faulk, is a good way to turn him sour.

Pitkanen is our best (and only) LHD with offensive talent. Murphy would not replace him even under ideal circumstances; if anything they would be paired in a firewagon-offense pairing. Besides, Murphy won't even be overtaking McBain unless he turns it around. Murphy actually is a third-pairing possibility, a Corvo type who could play sheltered minutes and specialize on the PP.

Quote:

Honestly, I would rather get another stay at home defensemen but Subban here, opens other moves that can be made.
For sure. Even if he's not a stay at home guy, Subban is a big enough talent to change our game and relieve some pressure from the defensive zone.

If JR really thought he could land PK with an offer sheet, I could see him attempting to avoid that route by offering McBain+2nd (which under those circumstances is a better deal for both teams than 1st+3rd) and then proceeding to rebuild the third pair around Harrison and another decent defender.

Novacane 01-26-2013 01:22 PM

I say we kick the tires on PK but if it starts to become a bidding war, like what happened to Jordan, pull out.

geehaad 01-26-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarheelhockey (Post 58384083)
As noted in a similar discussion in another thread PK would be another puck-moving RHD. So we'd not only be shutting out Corvo, but also relegating McBain to the third pairing forever and cutting off Murphy.

Not to say I wouldn't still do it, but similar to acquiring Jordan we would basically be making an organizational commitment to the guy.

I know very little about Subban, but have been decently impressed when he has played against the Canes. He seems to be more of a *defense*man than any of Corvo, McBain, and Murphy, and for my money, that's what I want in my top 4. So, if we lost McBain and Murphy and got Subban, I might be favorable on that. But I'm pretty averse to prima donnas, and that's what holdout says to me. So, tough call for me on him.

As for the sentiment that Murphy can replace Pitkanen: "Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one."

Anton Dubinchuk 01-26-2013 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh (Post 58384267)
That wouldn't at all screw us up financially, if you don't know anything about Montreal don't bother to talk about them.

If it wouldn't screw you up then why not just give him what he wants??? That's all I'm saying. We force a conference rival to give a guy WAY more than they want to, that's a good thing. No one in the Western Conference DIDN'T love Philly when they offer sheeted Weber. Either it takes him out of conference or it puts a LOT more strain on the Preds' cap than they wanted to have.

Habs offer $2.5 mil to Subban, and we force them to pay twice that? Tell me that's not unfortunate for Montreal.

But, I certainly appreciate the condescension, thanks for that! :laugh:

Cardiac_Canes 01-26-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by echlfreak (Post 58383011)
PK Subban is being offered 2 yrs $5.1M by MTL. A $4.5M offer sheet would cost merely a 1st and a 3rd round pick. Why wouldn't the Canes try?

Faulk and PK for the next 5 years?

So let me get this straight. You're saying Montreal is offering Subban $5.1 a year and you're suggesting we offer sheet him at a lower figure and you're asking why it wouldn't work? Hmm, well for starters why would he sign an offersheet for even less than the offer on the table? And secondly, if Montreal can afford that, they would certainly match any offer we mad below that. Not sure why this is even a serious question.

Anton Dubinchuk 01-26-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes (Post 58386277)
So let me get this straight. You're saying Montreal is offering Subban $5.1 a year and you're suggesting we offer sheet him at a lower figure and you're asking why it wouldn't work? Hmm, well for starters why would he sign an offersheet for even less than the offer on the table? And secondly, if Montreal can afford that, they would certainly match any offer we mad below that. Not sure why this is even a serious question.

http://ferringtonpost.com/wp-content...oto-by-2bp.jpg

He got offered a 2 year, $5.1 mil contract, not a 2 year, $5.1 mil A YEAR contract.

Cap hit for the contract they offered would be for $2.55 mil a year.

Aren't you in Canada? Isn't this on every radio station and TV channel like 25/7? :laugh:

Finlandia WOAT 01-26-2013 01:34 PM

I don't see him as a primma donna.

The holdout is because Subban wants a second contract along the line Seguin, Skinner (who singlehandedly ruined these contracts), Benn, Hall and Eberle all received.

Whereas the Montreal GM wants to give him a "bridge" contract, where Subban plays for 2 years on a cheap contract to prove his worth before getting a payday. Pacioretty and Price both received similar deals from Montreal.

Montreal has offered a 2 year 5 million (2.5 per year!) deal to Subban. From Subban's point of view, Montreal is asking him to surrender two years of his big payday for the sake of the team. From Montreal's point of view, Subban has not earned a big contract yet.

Subban isn't being a primma donna. He isn't where Pacioretty and Price where at his stage. They were players who had shown flashes of the hockey elite while at the same time shown inconsistency in their play. They weren't elite yet.


Subban, while not "elite", is certainly more established then they were and more worthy of a contract closer to the longer term second contracts we are seeing. He has been Montreal's consummate defender in all situations for the past 2 years. He's out there for the important PK and for the 6th man rush at the 30 second mark. He is much more valuable.

Montreal is just being stubborn for the sake of semantics, and they may lose the best defenseman they have had in forever (who isn't hurt 98% of the time) because of it.

From what I have read, Montreal will match any offersheet save for the ludicrous. They don't care as long as they didn't sign it. Montreal will match that offer sheet in a second.

geehaad 01-26-2013 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes (Post 58386277)
So let me get this straight. You're saying Montreal is offering Subban $5.1 a year and you're suggesting we offer sheet him at a lower figure and you're asking why it wouldn't work? Hmm, well for starters why would he sign an offersheet for even less than the offer on the table? And secondly, if Montreal can afford that, they would certainly match any offer we mad below that. Not sure why this is even a serious question.

I sense an impending Emily Litella moment.

Boom Boom Anton 01-26-2013 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk (Post 58383407)
I'm not sure about that. Montreal doesn't necessarily have a huge amount of cap room. A $5 mil offer sheet would still be a 1st and 3rd, I believe, and I think that's a hit we could swallow for a player like Subban (trading away Corvo for future considerations to whoever would take him to lessen the monetary blow).

Now that they've bought out Gomez, is the Cap really an issue for them. If I read Capgeek correctly, this year, they have $6M in cap space and that's counting the $6.5M hit from Gomez which is gone for next season. Next year, if the cap goes to $64M, they have $11M in space with only a few lower end guys to still sign.

Anton Dubinchuk 01-26-2013 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton (Post 58388005)
Now that they've bought out Gomez, is the Cap really an issue for them. If I read Capgeek correctly, this year, they have $6M in cap space and that's counting the $6.5M hit from Gomez which is gone for next season. Next year, if the cap goes to $64M, they have $11M in space with only a few lower end guys to still sign.

Hmm, I didn't realize the Gomez thing was gone next year, I thought it was spread out more, never mind, cap isn't a huge issue. Forcing them to not give him a bridge contract, on the other hand, is.

impeach estaalo 01-26-2013 02:39 PM

Murphy will never replace Joni Jokel ****ing amaxing dman

normalpsychology 01-26-2013 03:13 PM

I'd like to see him as an addition. Bring him here!

Anton H Christ 01-26-2013 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazyking (Post 58384397)
Mcbain doesn't have top pairing talent anyway and with Murphy, the Canes could possibly move Pitts when Murphy is ready.

blasphemy

Cardiac_Canes 01-26-2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Dubinchuk (Post 58386431)
http://ferringtonpost.com/wp-content...oto-by-2bp.jpg

He got offered a 2 year, $5.1 mil contract, not a 2 year, $5.1 mil A YEAR contract.

Cap hit for the contract they offered would be for $2.55 mil a year.

Aren't you in Canada? Isn't this on every radio station and TV channel like 25/7? :laugh:

Whaaaa? Ya I'm in Canada but I hate the amount of crap that gets said about the leafs and the habs. I do a nice job of blocking it out. If they're offering him that over 2 years then no wonder he's pissed and holding out. Geeze.


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