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-   -   The Leafs: Discuss the current team (not a tank thread) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1333939)

Bravid Nonahan 01-26-2013 10:20 PM

The Leafs: Discuss the current team (not a tank thread)
 
The Leafs aren't just missing a #1 centre. They are missing a lot of pieces. They are missing size. They are missing stability on the backend. They are missing EFFORT from their best offensive player. They are missing focus. They are missing 4th line players who can ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE and are not a liability when they are on the ice. They are missing stability in net. They are missing a #1 defenceman. They are missing a #2 defenceman. The Leafs absolutely hung Reimer out to dry tonight, and it was embarrassing to watch.

It's been 10 years of this garbage.

10 years, folks.

What are the steps to right the ship? Finish in the bottom 5? Trade assets for prospects?

Yes people, I know its been 5 games, and that's not a lot. But wer'e seeing the SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AGAIN, that we have seen for YEARS NOW! How many times, how many flipping times have we seen the EXACT same goal as the Rangers scored for their first goal tonight. Shot from the point. A rebound - opposition players given free reign in front of the net to whack away at the puck as they please - no dmen clearing them out, no dmen even tying up their sticks, and lazy backchecking from the forwards. It's the SAME OLD SONG AND DANCE, people. It's been 5 games but it might as well be 100 games, because this team has not changed.

Dangles McGavin 01-26-2013 10:23 PM

Pretty much, yeah.

Penalty Kill Icing* 01-26-2013 10:24 PM

The title of the thread is the EXACT thought that came to my mind just before I came to Hf right now. Nailed it.

Kulemon 01-26-2013 10:24 PM

This fan base is my problem. I've never been more annoyed than I am this year.

number72 01-26-2013 10:26 PM

Yes this is frustrating. The reality is we need to reset our expectations for another 2 to 5 years before this will be a competitive team.

Woll Smoth 01-26-2013 10:26 PM

This team is dreadful down to the core.

Kessel should be the 3rd best forward on a good team. He's simply not good enough to lead a team. We have a forward ground built around an elite complimentary player.

Strip it down and start again. The Kessel trade has been the worst thing that could have possibly happened to this team.

Sonny21 01-26-2013 10:27 PM

We need to get the big pieces from the draft. Big name ufa's aren't coming here, and teams aren't going to be trading them without getting a ransom back.

I don't know what else to say really, last thing this team needs is Luongo to help us finish 9th.

Bravid Nonahan 01-26-2013 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulemon (Post 58423891)
This fan base is my problem. I've never been more annoyed than I am this year.

The fan base didn't cause the travesty of the last two games.

Erdinger 01-26-2013 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulemon (Post 58423891)
This fan base is my problem. I've never been more annoyed than I am this year.

Why is there something different this season? It's always been like this and seriously why shouldn't it be that way? Myself I couldn't care less if they lost every game if we developed some young players and got a great draft pick. But then I will get labelled a tanker. Personally I'm happy with the status quo. Win or lose with these players,no dumb trades or quick fixes.

Kessely Snipes 01-26-2013 10:29 PM

I'm usually the guy who has the mindset of one player away (either #1C or goalie) but after seeing these games, I'm thinking its time to completely bottom out if we want to get a great team.

Yobbles 01-26-2013 10:29 PM

In other news: The sky is blue.

MapleLeafs9 01-26-2013 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kulemon (Post 58423891)
This fan base is my problem. I've never been more annoyed than I am this year.

Why? Why are you annoyed? Because we're right?

How can anyone be fine with Carlyle playing a 27 year old rookie 25-32 minutes a game when it is clear he doesn't deserve it?

How can anyone expect Phaneuf to lead this team when he is so incompetent at his own position?

How can anyone be fine with our best offensive player put in the effort like he did tonight?

How can we be fine with Bozak as our 1st line centre?

This team is just not good enough, like the title says....Since 2005 we've been looking at non-playoff teams year after year.

Longshot 01-26-2013 10:30 PM

I have a serious question. I'm not being sarcastic. And I'm not being flippant.

But, again - seriously - how many years does it take to conclude that it's not working with Kessel and Phaneuf as the focal points of your team?

I like Phil Kessel and I like Dion Phaneuf. I think both are excellent NHL players that would excel on good team. Just imagine Phaneuf on the Rangers. Or Kessel with the Kings. Wow, is what I think.

However, at some point does management not have to look at this situation and conclude it's not working with them as focal points? How long does it take to come to the conclusion that they both would be better off in support roles? And what happens when management does reach that conclusion? Is that when a full rebuild begins?

Hyperglide 01-26-2013 10:32 PM

Yup Rags totally dominated the Leafs. So much size and skill. Leafs have pretty much no size and a bit of skill. Leafs need to get some guys who can win puck battles in the boards get pucks in deep, back check and not be a defensive liability.

Kessel ain't any of that and he's supposed to be a our go to premium player.

Erdinger 01-26-2013 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot (Post 58424401)
I have a serious question. I'm not being sarcastic. And I'm not being flippant.

But, again - seriously - how many years does it take to conclude that it's not working with Kessel and Phaneuf as the focal points of your team?

I like Phil Kessel and I like Dion Phaneuf. I think both are excellent NHL players that would excel on good team. Just imagine Phaneuf on the Rangers. Or Kessel with the Kings. Wow, is what I think.

However, at some point does management not have to look at this situation and conclude it's not working with them as focal points? How long does it take to come to the conclusion that they both would be better off in support roles? And what happens when management does reach that conclusion? Is that when a full rebuild begins?

Might as well stick with them. Both of them will be gone when (or if) this team ever turns the corner.

Bravid Nonahan 01-26-2013 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot (Post 58424401)
I have a serious question. I'm not being sarcastic. And I'm not being flippant.

But, again - seriously - how many years does it take to conclude that it's not working with Kessel and Phaneuf as the focal points of your team?

I like Phil Kessel and I like Dion Phaneuf. I think both are excellent NHL players that would excel on good team. Just imagine Phaneuf on the Rangers. Or Kessel with the Kings. Wow, is what I think.

However, at some point does management not have to look at this situation and conclude it's not working with them as focal points? How long does it take to come to the conclusion that they both would be better off in support roles? And what happens when management does reach that conclusion? Is that when a full rebuild begins?

Some excellent points you raise, and I'm starting to see the light personally.

Maybe the intention was never to have these guys as the FOCAL points on the team, but guess what, they are. And until that changes, I don't think we can win.

Foot 01-26-2013 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number72 (Post 58424015)
Yes this is frustrating. The reality is we need to reset our expectations for another 2 to 5 years before this will be a competitive team.

Thats what you said 5 years ago.

Longshot 01-26-2013 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erdinger (Post 58424611)
Might as well stick with them. Both of them will be gone when (or if) this team ever turns the corner.

But if management concludes that it can't work with them as focal points, should they not try and move them to other organizations to maximize their value?

When you say they will be "gone" when the team "turns the corner". Do you mean you want the Leafs to stick with them and just let them leave as free agents?

Everlong 01-26-2013 10:37 PM

They played a structured game tonight despite missing a few key guys (gardiner, lupul). Got beat by a a good team, simple as that. No need to have an aneurism after every loss.

Kulemon 01-26-2013 10:39 PM

A culture change might be what this team needs. Maybe it is changed by trading Phaneuf and Kessel and rebuilding. Who knows. But whining and crying on an Internet forum is not gonna change anything and if you are truly down to tank this season, try not to ***** this much after every loss.

Longshot 01-26-2013 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph (Post 58424747)
Some excellent points you raise, and I'm starting to see the light personally.

Maybe the intention was never to have these guys as the FOCAL points on the team, but guess what, they are. And until that changes, I don't think we can win.

I disagree with you a bit. I believe it was Burke's intention to have them the focal point of his team in Toronto. Kessel would be his number one forward. Phaneuf would be his number one defense man and he was planning to find a goalie (initially the Monster and then later Reimer after he played so well) to be the third focal point of his team.

As a strategy it wasn't really that wild. Both Kessel and Phaneuf of enormously talented hockey players. And nobody can really tell that a player is not capable of being a focal point of an organization until they're given that chance.

I'm just curious about when they conclude that it's not working and move on.

MapleLeafs9 01-26-2013 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everlong (Post 58425133)
They played a structured game tonight despite missing a few key guys (gardiner, lupul). Got beat by a a good team, simple as that. No need to have an aneurism after every loss.

No, there was nothing structured about tonight's game. You're not playing a structured game if they are in your zone 80% of the game and the shots are 42-16. The score would have so much worse if Reimer didn't play such a good game.

Crispy Crust 01-26-2013 10:40 PM

You would think a team that hasn't made the playoffs since 2004 would have a great farm system.

Cool Hand Luke 01-26-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshot (Post 58424401)
I have a serious question. I'm not being sarcastic. And I'm not being flippant.

But, again - seriously - how many years does it take to conclude that it's not working with Kessel and Phaneuf as the focal points of your team?

I like Phil Kessel and I like Dion Phaneuf. I think both are excellent NHL players that would excel on good team. Just imagine Phaneuf on the Rangers. Or Kessel with the Kings. Wow, is what I think.

However, at some point does management not have to look at this situation and conclude it's not working with them as focal points? How long does it take to come to the conclusion that they both would be better off in support roles? And what happens when management does reach that conclusion? Is that when a full rebuild begins?

Winner. Post of the decade.

Everlong 01-26-2013 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9 (Post 58425443)
No, there was nothing structured about tonight's game. You're not playing a structured game if they are in your zone 80% of the game and the shots are 42-16. The score would have so much worse if Reimer didn't play such a good game.

The score would have been much worse if 50% of the shots weren't from outside the slot from poor shooting angles. Reimer did his part tonight despite letting in as many as he did.


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