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-   -   Should the Blues try to rebuild Peoria's roster? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1334145)

Lifetimebluesfan 01-27-2013 01:38 AM

Should the Blues try to rebuild Peoria's roster?
 
Is it possible? I know a lot of guys are in there RFA years like Nigro and Shattock. Also There are a lot of UFAs like Hensick and Ford. Is there a possibility we bring in a few veteran AHLers and rookie free agents? Plus we have a lot of signed draft picks that don't have an ELC and unsigned draft picks as well.
The reason why I ask is because Peoria hasn't done the best job of developing prospects, at least IMO.
If this were to happen, this is what I'd like to see happen. (I don't pay very close attention to Peoria and have only watched one full game, so forgive me if this idea sounds completely stupid).

Keep (FA's): McCrae, Grachev, Murray, Cracknell, Chorney, Allen, SDR, Cundari, Fairchild, and maybe Hensick.

Additions: Rattie, Jaskin, Veilleiux, Rylen Schwartz (undrafted FA), Hakanpaa, Eronen, Lindbohm, Edmundson, Tesink, Lundstrom, Binnington, and the rest veteran FAs.

Forwards:
Rattie, Jaskin, R. Schwartz, Veilluex, Cracknell, Beach, Wannstrom, Andronov, SDR, Sonne, Nesbitt, Tesink, Max Gardiner, the rest would be veteran FAs (Assuming McCrae and Grachev are on the NHL roster next year).

Defense:
Fairchild, Chorney, Cundari, Edmundson, Ponich, Hakanpaa, Lindbohm, Eronen, shields, vet FAs.

Goalies:
Allen, Lundstrom, Binnington.

You write out what the lines look like. I have no clue what they'd look like. Like I said, I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, I just want to know what everyone's thoughts are.

Alklha 01-27-2013 03:10 AM

I think the situation in Peoria needs looked at pretty urgently. We are likely going to have 3 very promising prospects joining the fold next season (Rattie, Jaškin & Edmundson) and Peoria has been a bit of a wasteland for prospects in recent years.

I'd agree with some of your list, but not all. Our prospects need as much playing time as possible in tough situations, and loading it up in such a way isn't ideal for their development. Someone like Lundström is better off staying in Sweden where he is already splitting time in the SEL and will likely be #1 next season.

I would certainly like to see both Hakanpää and Eronen over next year though. I would hope we wouldn't need to convince them too much.

Robb_K 01-27-2013 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alklha (Post 58440569)
I think the situation in Peoria needs looked at pretty urgently. We are likely going to have 3 very promising prospects joining the fold next season (Rattie, Jaškin & Edmundson) and Peoria has been a bit of a wasteland for prospects in recent years.

I'd agree with some of your list, but not all. Our prospects need as much playing time as possible in tough situations, and loading it up in such a way isn't ideal for their development. Someone like Lundström is better off staying in Sweden where he is already splitting time in the SEL and will likely be #1 next season.

I would certainly like to see both Hakanpää and Eronen over next year though. I would hope we wouldn't need to convince them too much.

The Blues success at The NHL level is a nice drawing card. Their shot at winning The Stanley Cup might even make Barulin think twice about leaving his high KHL salary and comforts of home! I would guess tha most Euros now would consider trying to make The NHL with The Blues, unless they see their way blocked by a current glut of prospects and/or very young and very talented NHL players with The Blues at their position.

JustOneB4IDie 01-27-2013 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb_K (Post 58441563)
The Blues success at The NHL level is a nice drawing card. Their shot at winning The Stanley Cup might even make Barulin think twice about leaving his high KHL salary and comforts of home! I would guess tha most Euros now would consider trying to make The NHL with The Blues, unless they see their way blocked by a current glut of prospects and/or very young and very talented NHL players with The Blues at their position.


I am 100 percent agreement with you Robb_K on the euros being skeptical coming over to play in Perioa instead of the Blues, but I do not see the 2003 draft pick Russian Goalie Barulin leaving the conforts of home.

Alklha 01-27-2013 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb_K (Post 58441563)
The Blues success at The NHL level is a nice drawing card. Their shot at winning The Stanley Cup might even make Barulin think twice about leaving his high KHL salary and comforts of home! I would guess tha most Euros now would consider trying to make The NHL with The Blues, unless they see their way blocked by a current glut of prospects and/or very young and very talented NHL players with The Blues at their position.

Breaking it down though, we probably have 4 players playing in Europe that are the quality we would like to see playing in North America.

Niklas Lundström - Goalie that is probably better off remaining in Sweden, where he'll be #1 for AIK next season.

Jani Hakanpää, Petteri Lindbohm & Teemu Eronen - All LHD, so tough to accomodate all in the AHL. How realistic is their path to the NHL? Jackman is signed for another 2 seasons and Kris Russell fits the system, will be signed to a modest contract and is going to be worth significantly more to us than trade value.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Hakanpää come over this offseason, but I can't say the same for Lindbohm and Eronen.

Edit: Also on Lundström, I expect he'll be in the US for the 2014/15 season. I I'm honest, I think there is a better chance of him being on the Blues roster than not at that point.

CarvinSigX 01-27-2013 09:41 AM

Hakanpaa is a big righty...Isn't he?

stlweir 01-27-2013 10:02 AM

Yes, AHL teams can always use some Hensick types for veteran soring. Hakanpaa, Edmundson and Ponich would be three huge young D men. I'm hopefull that Tesink and Vielleux can step up to the next level and produce. Doesn't the Ohl goalie have another year of junior eligibility?

Daley Tarasenkshow 01-27-2013 10:26 AM

I don't see a world where Mcrae makes the roster next year.

ChicagoBlues 01-27-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlweir (Post 58446623)
Yes, AHL teams can always use some Hensick types for veteran soring. Hakanpaa, Edmundson and Ponich would be three huge young D men. I'm hopefull that Tesink and Vielleux can step up to the next level and produce. Doesn't the Ohl goalie have another year of junior eligibility?

I'd be happy if at least one of them made it to the NHL.

Lifetimebluesfan 01-27-2013 10:48 AM

I'd love to see Veilluex be a decent 3rd/2nd Line Left winger for us in the near future.

Prussian_Blue 01-27-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarvinSigX (Post 58446099)
Hakanpaa is a big righty...Isn't he?

Yes, he is.

Prussian_Blue 01-27-2013 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stlweir (Post 58446623)
Doesn't the Ohl goalie have another year of junior eligibility?

Technically, yes, I think he does... but he's already signed to his ELC, and I don't see any way that Binnington is NOT on the Peoria roster next year.

Paul Karpowich has been stepping it up in Evansville lately, too, and still needs to be considered as being in the mix.

As for Lundstrom,. his contract with AIK expires after this season, while the current #1, Daniel Larsson, is still under contract to them until 2013-14. I'm having a hard time believing that Lundstrom is going to somehow supplant Larsson as the #1 there next year, so the way may be smoothed for Lundstrom to cross the pond; there are options for him and the Blues if the Blues don't have room for him in Peoria, or if he balks at being sent to Evansville.

I'm going to be doing a story for "Game Time" on this very subject here in the next week or so. If you don't get the paper at the game, I'll be posting it on the website after it appears in the paper.

One question I'll ask here, and I may use some of your feedback in the article if you all don't mind: Would the Blues, as an organization, be better off moving their AHL affiliate to a larger and more "cosmopolitan" city with a larger and more modern facility, like Kansas City or Tulsa, as opposed to keeping the AHL affiliate in a city that has been -- unfairly or not -- perceived as a Podunk, minor-league burg?

MattyMo35 01-27-2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifetimebluesfan (Post 58438711)
Is it possible? I know a lot of guys are in there RFA years like Nigro and Shattock. Also There are a lot of UFAs like Hensick and Ford. Is there a possibility we bring in a few veteran AHLers and rookie free agents? Plus we have a lot of signed draft picks that don't have an ELC and unsigned draft picks as well.
The reason why I ask is because Peoria hasn't done the best job of developing prospects, at least IMO.
If this were to happen, this is what I'd like to see happen. (I don't pay very close attention to Peoria and have only watched one full game, so forgive me if this idea sounds completely stupid).

Keep (FA's): McCrae, Grachev, Murray, Cracknell, Chorney, Allen, SDR, Cundari, Fairchild, and maybe Hensick.

Additions: Rattie, Jaskin, Veilleiux, Rylen Schwartz (undrafted FA), Hakanpaa, Eronen, Lindbohm, Edmundson, Tesink, Lundstrom, Binnington, and the rest veteran FAs.

Forwards:
Rattie, Jaskin, R. Schwartz, Veilluex, Cracknell, Beach, Wannstrom, Andronov, SDR, Sonne, Nesbitt, Tesink, Max Gardiner, the rest would be veteran FAs (Assuming McCrae and Grachev are on the NHL roster next year).

Defense:
Fairchild, Chorney, Cundari, Edmundson, Ponich, Hakanpaa, Lindbohm, Eronen, shields, vet FAs.

Goalies:
Allen, Lundstrom, Binnington.

You write out what the lines look like. I have no clue what they'd look like. Like I said, I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, I just want to know what everyone's thoughts are.

Why are we assuming either of them will be on the NHL roster next year? What have they done to earn a spot? I certainly haven't seen it.

sh724 01-27-2013 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue (Post 58450613)
Technically, yes, I think he does... but he's already signed to his ELC, and I don't see any way that Binnington is NOT on the Peoria roster next year.

Paul Karpowich has been stepping it up in Evansville lately, too, and still needs to be considered as being in the mix.

As for Lundstrom,. his contract with AIK expires after this season, while the current #1, Daniel Larsson, is still under contract to them until 2013-14. I'm having a hard time believing that Lundstrom is going to somehow supplant Larsson as the #1 there next year, so the way may be smoothed for Lundstrom to cross the pond; there are options for him and the Blues if the Blues don't have room for him in Peoria, or if he balks at being sent to Evansville.

I'm going to be doing a story for "Game Time" on this very subject here in the next week or so. If you don't get the paper at the game, I'll be posting it on the website after it appears in the paper.

One question I'll ask here, and I may use some of your feedback in the article if you all don't mind: Would the Blues, as an organization, be better off moving their AHL affiliate to a larger and more "cosmopolitan" city with a larger and more modern facility, like Kansas City or Tulsa, as opposed to keeping the AHL affiliate in a city that has been -- unfairly or not -- perceived as a Podunk, minor-league burg?

The problem with potentially moving Peoria is the Blues own the arena where they play or at least own the contract to run the building. If they moved they would most likely not have that luxury and would have to pay rent the bigger the city/arena they move to the more it will cost them to play there. Also there are a lot of AHL teams in Illinois making travel pretty easy if the team is moved travel cost go up. So unless there are financial incentives for the team to move I do not see the Blues considering it. Finally, one of the best parts about Peoria is the distance from STL the closer the minor league affiliate the easier it is to move players back and forth anytime you send a player down they have to report to the minor league affiliate flying to Peoria and back is pretty simple if the team was moved it would have to be moved to some where close to STL probably within a couple hour flight.

Lifetimebluesfan 01-27-2013 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyMo35 (Post 58451319)
Why are we assuming either of them will be on the NHL roster next year? What have they done to earn a spot? I certainly haven't seen it.

To be honest, I'm not sure. I feel there's a chance if Nichol retires McCrae would take his spot and Grachev could fight for a spot as well.. Who knows

STL fan in IA 01-27-2013 12:11 PM

I think we'll see quite a bit of turnover in Peoria next season.

Binnington could technically play an overage 5th year in the OHL next season but this season fulfills his 4 year jr eligibility and he's already signed to an ELC so I think it's a very safe bet to say he'll be in Peoria next season. The question is what do the Blues do with one of Allen & McKenna?

Hakanpaa is also signed to an ELC and while the Blues allowed him to be loaned back to his Finnish team for this season, I think he'll be in Peoria next season as well.

Jaskin, Tesink, Veillieux and Edmundson are also in their last year's of jrs so I see no reason not to sign them and put them in Peoria. If the Blues don't sign them by 6/30/13, they lose their rights.

Rattie is also signed to an ELC and in his 4th yr of Jrs so he'll be in Peoria next season as well.

I'd like to see Eronin come over for next season as well but I haven't heard anything either way on his future plans.

I really like Lundstrom's potential as well but I don't think we see him in N.A. for another year or two.

Lindbohm has good potential but I'd like to see him stay in Finland another year or two and continue developing over there a bit more before coming over to N.A.

That's basically Rattie, Jaskin, Veillieux and Tesink up front, Hakanpaa and Edmundson on D and Binnington in goal which I expect to be added to Peoria next season. I think guys like McRae, Grachev, Shattock, Sonne, Nigro, Della Rovere, Allen, etc. need to step it up or risk not getting signed to another contract as these younger guys are coming to take their jobs.

sh724 01-27-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifetimebluesfan (Post 58451957)
To be honest, I'm not sure. I feel there's a chance if Nichol retires McCrae would take his spot and Grachev could fight for a spot as well.. Who knows

If Nichol is no longer with the team Sobotka moves back to center and a wing moves up.

Prussian_Blue 01-27-2013 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorton724 (Post 58451435)
The problem with potentially moving Peoria is the Blues own the arena where they play or at least own the contract to run the building. If they moved they would most likely not have that luxury and would have to pay rent the bigger the city/arena they move to the more it will cost them to play there.

Fair point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorton724 (Post 58451435)
Also there are a lot of AHL teams in Illinois making travel pretty easy if the team is moved travel cost go up. So unless there are financial incentives for the team to move I do not see the Blues considering it. Finally, one of the best parts about Peoria is the distance from STL the closer the minor league affiliate the easier it is to move players back and forth anytime you send a player down they have to report to the minor league affiliate flying to Peoria and back is pretty simple if the team was moved it would have to be moved to some where close to STL probably within a couple hour flight.

Hence the suggestions of Kansas City or Tulsa.

Robb_K 01-27-2013 01:07 PM

Honestly, I don't see the fact that Peoria is a small town being much of a problem for young hockey players from other countries. Peoria is very close to Chicago. The things Chicago has that Peoria doesn't aren't wanted by 20 year olds every day. The few things they'd miss they can get in their afternoons off by commuting for one extra half hour each way. That doesn't sound to me like a big problem.

If I were moving to Russia to further my hockey career, my decision to go there or not, or my happiness once there wouldn't be shattered by being 30 or 45 minutes from the centre of St. Petersburg rather than dwelling in its midst. I think we are blowing this idea out of proportion. If I were a young undrafted hockey player (which I once was), I wouldn't base my decision on which NHL team with which to sign, on how large and cosmopolitan their AHL affiliate city is. I'd base it on how much money and contract incentives they offer, and what chances I had in their system, to move up to The NHL level (based on their current rosters at all levels). Chances are that all 30 NHL teams wouldn't offer EXACTLY the same money, perks and chances to fill an NHL spot within 2-4 years, to make the differences in size of their AHL affiliates worth anything in such a decision.

Bluesnatic27 01-27-2013 01:20 PM

I'm all in favor of signing Rylen Schwartz. Of the few times I've seen him, he seems like a pretty solid guy. Not as skilled as Jaden but is much more physical while having a similar body type. I don't see what harm it would do to sign him.

Prussian_Blue 01-27-2013 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb_K (Post 58455007)
Honestly, I don't see the fact that Peoria is a small town being much of a problem for young hockey players from other countries. Peoria is very close to Chicago. The things Chicago has that Peoria doesn't aren't wanted by 20 year olds every day. The few things they'd miss they can get in their afternoons off by commuting for one extra half hour each way. That doesn't sound to me like a big problem.

If I were moving to Russia to further my hockey career, my decision to go there or not, or my happiness once there wouldn't be shattered by being 30 or 45 minutes from the centre of St. Petersburg rather than dwelling in its midst. I think we are blowing this idea out of proportion. If I were a young undrafted hockey player (which I once was), I wouldn't base my decision on which NHL team with which to sign, on how large and cosmopolitan their AHL affiliate city is. I'd base it on how much money and contract incentives they offer, and what chances I had in their system, to move up to The NHL level (based on their current rosters at all levels). Chances are that all 30 NHL teams wouldn't offer EXACTLY the same money, perks and chances to fill an NHL spot within 2-4 years, to make the differences in size of their AHL affiliates worth anything in such a decision.

I hear what you're saying, and I do not disagree... although Peoria is more like 90 minutes from Chicago, rather than 30.

I'm only asking the question because:

1. Other posters here have commented on Peoria being a "wasteland" for prospect development.

2. Several Blues' prospects, in the past, have flat refused to come over and play in the AHL. Other clubs don't seem to have an issue getting Europeans to play in the AHL when they're being sent to large and cosmopolitan cities like Toronto or OKC or Austin or Cleveland or Norfolk... but tell a guy he's going to Peoria, and all of a sudden it's "well, I'll just stay home in Europe, then."

Robb_K 01-27-2013 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue (Post 58462425)
I hear what you're saying, and I do not disagree... although Peoria is more like 90 minutes from Chicago, rather than 30.

I'm only asking the question because:

1. Other posters here have commented on Peoria being a "wasteland" for prospect development.

2. Several Blues' prospects, in the past, have flat refused to come over and play in the AHL. Other clubs don't seem to have an issue getting Europeans to play in the AHL when they're being sent to large and cosmopolitan cities like Toronto or OKC or Austin or Cleveland or Norfolk... but tell a guy he's going to Peoria, and all of a sudden it's "well, I'll just stay home in Europe, then."

I still wonder if the reason for their refusing to come is that Peoria is a "Podunk" town. Did more Europeans come to The Blues' AHL affiliate when it was Worcester, Mass. (a large city)? I think they've avoided Peoria because The Blues were a losing team in The NHL for most of their affiliation period with Peoria. Now that The Blues are a very good team in The NHL, they suddenly also have a LOT of very talented young depth, making it appear difficult to make their NHL lineup during the next few years. We may have TWO DIFFERENT FACTORS working here, NEITHER of which may be Peoria's size.

Would you avoid playing in Peoria because it was 90 minutes away from what you want in Chicago, rather than 30 minutes?

I lived in ChicagoLand for 9 years (South Suburban). Would you need to travel the full 90 minutes to The Loop to get "City entertainment"?
Or might you be able to get those things after a 45 minute trip to a southern suburb, such as Park Forest? Again, I doubt that a foreign hockey player is more worried about what things he can do in Chicago that he can't in Peoria, than his chances to make The NHL.

It's more likely to be "how many foreign players off the Peoria roster make The St. Louis roster vs, development teams of other NHL franchises", than Peoria's lack of amenities.

I worked for The UN for 20 years, and work for Walt Disney Publications in 4 different countries (and hold residences in each every year). I know what it is to decide whether or not to move to a city in a "foreign" country for work, and what factors influence such a decision. I was a hockey player fairly high up in the junior levels. I know what factors would affect such decisions. if I were serious about my career (and I always have been), the amenities of the particular city would pale in comparison to the opportunities which would open up chances to improve my standing in my career field. I amDutch and Canadian. If I saw The Blues as a currently well-run organisation, and with a promising near future in relation to the playoffs and chances to win The Stanley Cup, AND, most importantly, I would see a chance for me to move up onto The Blues' NHL roster within the next few years, I'd move to Peoria to play for their AHL team, without hesitation. If, on the other hand, I saw a glut of players at my level or better at my position in their organisational roster, and I had a girlfriend at home, I might stay in my own country until my chances would look better. The amenities of Peoria would be a very last tie-breaker, if I were on the tip of the decision (I doubt that such a situation would occur-that I'd need to look to that miniscule factor to make that final decision.

Terror91 01-27-2013 05:33 PM

I think we are all forgetting Sergei Andronov. I think he had earned a contract for next year.

Robb_K 01-27-2013 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randall Ritchey (Post 58472425)
I think we are all forgetting Sergei Andronov. I think he had earned a contract for next year.

I hope he is willing to play at Peoria next season.

fst6 01-28-2013 01:52 PM

Such a nice trio of goaltenders...


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