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-   -   Garth Must Go/Thank You Mr. Wang (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1334149)

LotteryForLife 01-27-2013 01:43 AM

Garth Must Go/Thank You Mr. Wang
 
Garth Snow's time on Long Island needs to come to an end. Another of the many gaffs of Wangbucks was hiring an inexperienced GM who has some how made it to year 6 of this rebuild. Snow has repeatedly botched draft picks and failed many times to deal impending free agents at the deadline. Despite consistently having high draft positions since 2008, Snow has drafted only 1 regular NHLer in the last 3 years. Bailey and DeHaan, both picks Snow traded up or down, to draft, have not worked out. He passed on Cam Fowler, Mikael Granlund, Sean Couturier and Jacob Trouba among many others to reach for picks, and he has done a horrendous job developing young players. Time for a change

Wanderson 01-27-2013 02:15 AM

Nah. You are wrong. And he has to stay.

I thought that atleast both Tavares and Hamonic are regular NHLers. We also have one of the best and deepest prospect pools in the NHL. More regular NHLers will come.

I'm glad that we doesn't rush our prospects anymore. It seems like you want Strome, Persson, Nelson, Niño, Reinhart, Pokka, Pelech etc to play in the NHL right now... You say that he has passed on some good players. Yes, he have. He cant see into the future. Can you?

Richie Daggers Crime 01-27-2013 02:18 AM

Calling for Snow to be fired is as futile an exercise as there can be. He's Wang's boy. He's there because he does what he's told. The end.

IslesNorway 01-27-2013 02:24 AM

:facepalm:

We all agree that Snow's made some mistakes but calling for his head because he didn't draft certain players is ridiculous.

LotteryForLife 01-27-2013 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderson (Post 58439627)
Nah. You are wrong. And he has to stay.

I thought that atleast both Tavares and Hamonic are regular NHLers. We also have one of the best and deepest prospect pools in the NHL. More regular NHLers will come.

I'm glad that we doesn't rush our prospects anymore. It seems like you want Strome, Persson, Nelson, Niño, Reinhart, Pokka, Pelech etc to play in the NHL right now... You say that he has passed on some good players. Yes, he have. He cant see into the future. Can you?

If you choose to comment on my post I would appreciate it if you would read it first. The last 3 years would not include the 2008 draft, the one that Travis Hamonic was taken in. And yes, it isn't too much to ask for a few of the many prospects we've drafted since 2009 to actually play regularly for a team that hasn't been out of last place in 6 years. Especially when many of the players taken after guys like Strome, Nino and even Reinhart are already playing in the NHL

LotteryForLife 01-27-2013 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslesNorway (Post 58439773)
:facepalm:

We all agree that Snow's made some mistakes but calling for his head because he didn't draft certain players is ridiculous.

No its not. I guess Garth has his kids up late defending him because I go to every game and every KNOWLEDGEABLE FAN I speak to believes that Garth needs to go

LotteryForLife 01-27-2013 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime (Post 58439687)
Calling for Snow to be fired is as futile an exercise as there can be. He's Wang's boy. He's there because he does what he's told. The end.

I've heard this from many of my friends who work for the Islanders. He is the new Milbury

Wanderson 01-27-2013 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LotteryForLife (Post 58440759)
If you choose to comment on my post I would appreciate it if you would read it first. The last 3 years would not include the 2008 draft, the one that Travis Hamonic was taken in. And yes, it isn't too much to ask for a few of the many prospects we've drafted since 2009 to actually play regularly for a team that hasn't been out of last place in 6 years. Especially when many of the players taken after guys like Strome, Nino and even Reinhart are already playing in the NHL


Why doesn't the good draft of 2008 count? Snow drafted Hammer, Martin and Ullström in that draft. He also drafted two regular NHLers 2009, Cizikas and JT. Maybe more to come in Lee, CdH and Nilsson. It seems like you don't know that our prospect pool is very deep and talented. Read about our prospects. It will be more NHLers soon - when they're ready. No need to rush them like Bailey.

2010 Snow drafted Niño, Nelson and Kabanov.
2011 he drafted Strome, Mayfield, Sundström, Kichton, Pedan, Russo, Persson and Theoret. That draft is almost perfect. All of those players can be "regular NHLers" in the near future.

There is three players drafted after Reinhart who are playing in the NHL right now. Grigorenko, Laughton and Matteau. I guess that you blame Snow for not drafting Stefan Matteau instead of Reinhart?

206 players was drafted after Strome. Only 9 has played in the NHL. Most of those players like Rakell, Bärtschi and Zibanejad hasn't played more than 10 games. Only two of the players who got drafted after Strome has played more than 10 games in the NHL. #8 Couturier and #139 Shaw. Do you blame Snow for drafting Strome instead of Andrew Shaw? I don't.

Scott Scissons 01-27-2013 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LotteryForLife (Post 58440797)
I've heard this from many of my friends who work for the Islanders. He is the new Milbury

Wow do you actually remember the Milbury years?

You made some fair arguements and while we do not agree I will admit they are interesting. However you have lost all credibility with this last statement.

The new milbury. :headache:

LotteryForLife 01-27-2013 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderson (Post 58440955)
Why doesn't the good draft of 2008 count? Snow drafted Hammer, Martin and Ullström in that draft. He also drafted two regular NHLers 2009, Cizikas and JT. Maybe more to come in Lee, CdH and Nilsson. It seems like you don't know that our prospect pool is very deep and talented. Read about our prospects. It will be more NHLers soon - when they're ready. No need to rush them like Bailey.

2010 Snow drafted Niño, Nelson and Kabanov.
2011 he drafted Strome, Mayfield, Sundström, Kichton, Pedan, Russo, Persson and Theoret. That draft is almost perfect. All of those players can be "regular NHLers" in the near future.

There is three players drafted after Reinhart who are playing in the NHL right now. Grigorenko, Laughton and Matteau. I guess that you blame Snow for not drafting Stefan Matteau instead of Reinhart?

206 players was drafted after Strome. Only 9 has played in the NHL. Most of those players like Rakell, Bärtschi and Zibanejad hasn't played more than 10 games. Only two of the players who got drafted after Strome has played more than 10 games in the NHL. #8 Couturier and #139 Shaw. Do you blame Snow for drafting Strome instead of Andrew Shaw? I don't.

The 2008 draft doesn't count because there have been 4 drafts since then, with 6 first round picks, and tons of mid round picks and we have only John Tavares to show for it, a layup of a pick.

In 2009 he reaches for Calvin deHaan at #12
passing on current NHL regulars Kulikov, Kassian, Leddy, Kreider and Josefson to name a few

In 2010 he reaches a little once again for Nino at #5
passing on current NHL regulars Cam Fowler, Granlund, Skinner, Burmistrov and Terasenko

In 2011 he goes a little out of the box with Ryan Strome at #5 and while Strome has never played in an NHL game, Dougie Hamilton and Sean Couturier (both rated higher) follow Strome and look at them now.

Now in 2012 he reaches massively at #4 for Reinhart who was rated the 10th best NA skater in the draft and once again we watch as a bevy of better players follow.

If this doesn't spell it out enough I can go on for the truly thick skulled

LotteryForLife 01-27-2013 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderson (Post 58440955)
Why doesn't the good draft of 2008 count? Snow drafted Hammer, Martin and Ullström in that draft. He also drafted two regular NHLers 2009, Cizikas and JT. Maybe more to come in Lee, CdH and Nilsson. It seems like you don't know that our prospect pool is very deep and talented. Read about our prospects. It will be more NHLers soon - when they're ready. No need to rush them like Bailey.

2010 Snow drafted Niño, Nelson and Kabanov.
2011 he drafted Strome, Mayfield, Sundström, Kichton, Pedan, Russo, Persson and Theoret. That draft is almost perfect. All of those players can be "regular NHLers" in the near future.

There is three players drafted after Reinhart who are playing in the NHL right now. Grigorenko, Laughton and Matteau. I guess that you blame Snow for not drafting Stefan Matteau instead of Reinhart?

206 players was drafted after Strome. Only 9 has played in the NHL. Most of those players like Rakell, Bärtschi and Zibanejad hasn't played more than 10 games. Only two of the players who got drafted after Strome has played more than 10 games in the NHL. #8 Couturier and #139 Shaw. Do you blame Snow for drafting Strome instead of Andrew Shaw? I don't.

And because he traded down twice which is fine but not when you take Josh "Mother-Bleeping" Bailey. And then Hodgson, Myers and ERIK KARLSSON follow

ERIK KARLSSON

Maybe one time Garth can reach and accidentally take, ummm, Jordan Eberle? Too much to ask? Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while

LotteryForLife 01-27-2013 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottScissons (Post 58440979)
Wow do you actually remember the Milbury years?

You made some fair arguements and while we do not agree I will admit they are interesting. However you have lost all credibility with this last statement.

The new milbury. :headache:

Just merely stating that he has about 5-6 more bad drafts and he could be in the same conversation

luki here 01-27-2013 05:49 AM

your assumption that one has to draft well is a stretch. There is a finite number of successful draft picks. Its obvious that a certain measure of luck, as well as good scouting, comes into play at drafts.

steveat 01-27-2013 06:16 AM

we don't have the depth at the NHL level to properly develop these kids like other teams do. It's got nothing to do with Garth. It's a slow process to build that. To bring youth up and have them succeed, you need to give them enough icetime and also give them someone they can learn and improve from.

We had one guy that could learn to improve on himself. That is JT. Luckily his leadership has made everyone that plays with him better, but we can't put all rookies on his line. Nielsen is also great to learn from, but because his hands are full covering up for other people's mistakes there is little time to learn from. Then everything else is garbage. 3rd and 4th line you are just a body and not improving or learning. Now with Aucoin, we're set. I truly believe that Nino can learn, improve and hit his stride come next season. Look at how Ullstrom has come to life on his life. We all knew ullstrom had it, but we couldn't see it on a nightly basis.

JKP 01-27-2013 06:26 AM

Second guessing drafts in hindsight is a stupid and futile exercise unless one was really going off the board.

nyscene 01-27-2013 06:43 AM

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/22825671.jpg

Its like crazy-world over here. If Garth brings up the prospects early, he's bad & should be fired. if he lets them develop, he passed on better players, and should be fired.

Pnut 01-27-2013 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LotteryForLife (Post 58442197)
Just merely stating that he has about 5-6 more bad drafts and he could be in the same conversation

No you are saying that our GM has to get the best player no matter what in every draft. Because you think that he and his staff should have seen how great the other players were that they didn't draft. That somehow he would be the greatest GM ever and it is so easy. Like there has EVER been a GM that picked the best player(s) in everydraft they were running.

You have no logic on this and therefore the basis of your opinion is flawed. If the basis of your opinion is wrong, then it doesn't matter what direction you go in, you are still going the wrong way. You have nothing.

lazycop 01-27-2013 06:53 AM

Agreed. This thread is just dumb. You could selectively pick apart almost any team's draft history, in any of the 4 major sports. Every team passed on someone who ended up being good. Whats the point?

88th Precinct 01-27-2013 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyscene (Post 58442795)
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...x/22825671.jpg

Its like crazy-world over here. If Garth brings up the prospects early, he's bad & should be fired. if he lets them develop, he passed on better players, and should be fired.

^ This, a 1000 times.

Snow is the OPPOSITE of Milbury, and frankly, that's why I'm alright with him despite certain factors.

Rather than re-hash everything I've said before in any thread calling for Snow's head, I'll just say I'd support giving him one or two steps into Barclays Center before kicking him overboard. While things are moving slow, they're going in the right direction.

Isles Junkie 01-27-2013 07:24 AM

not everyone is John Tavares or Sean Coutirer. some players take longer to develop.

I'm not a Snow fan at all, but I've been pretty happy with his drafts. I'm not going to get on him because Casey Czikas took a few years to make it to the NHL. Nor am I going to get on him because de Haan has been injured much of his career, otherwise he very likely would have been up by now. I'm thankful neither of our goalies are up yet. Strome & Reinhart aren't ready. Nino is benefitting from more time in the AHL.

I think that every prospect drafted that deserves to be up, is up here. You want to get on him for the development and rushing of certain prospects. That's fair game. but don't get on him for choosing Ryan Strome over Dougie Hamilton or something. Strome was and is an excellent pick for this franchise. Just because Hamilton got to the NHL faster doesn't mean Snow messed up.

I also like how you just stick to 3 years ago. Because if you were talking about 4 years ago, then that's 5 NHL regulars the Islanders drafted, although Spurgeon is no longer here.

SaintTavares 01-27-2013 07:25 AM

So your argument is that we should only judge him on the most recent of drafts, without giving any of those picks time to develop? Because a few players from other teams have already made the league, you assume our picks are wasted? And lets totally forget picking up guys like Moulson and Grabner, and having the guts to pick up Nabokov when he didn't want to play here and not flinching over it. Since the general consensus is that most people are ok with the job he's done, don't you think maybe you're overreacting a bit?

leaponover 01-27-2013 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LotteryForLife (Post 58440759)
If you choose to comment on my post I would appreciate it if you would read it first. The last 3 years would not include the 2008 draft, the one that Travis Hamonic was taken in. And yes, it isn't too much to ask for a few of the many prospects we've drafted since 2009 to actually play regularly for a team that hasn't been out of last place in 6 years. Especially when many of the players taken after guys like Strome, Nino and even Reinhart are already playing in the NHL

So basically you are picking and choosing what part of his tenure to blame him for...

Children, sounds quite childish to leave out facts that dampen your argument rather than look at the whole picture...

InformTheMasses 01-27-2013 07:29 AM

Look, it's simple. We should draft the best NHL Players in every round of every draft, and they should all reach the NHL FIRST, before any other team has their draft picks playing for them.

Is that too much to ask?

OrangeZebra 01-27-2013 07:39 AM

We can't fire Snow, DP isn't ready to be GM yet.

Hip Of Rick 01-27-2013 07:54 AM

1. Its SNOW MUST GO! not Garth Must Go
2. The draft argument will never go over well on HF when prospects and draft picks are more valuable than having a winning team.
3. Snow has 1 good quality and that is getting his RFAs signed to good contracts. Nearly every other aspect of Snows tenure is pathetic

Snow is the worst GM in the 4 major sports. I do not care what restrictions he has from Wang, being a bottom 5 team for 5 straight years is an embarrassment. Snow should not have any excuses made for him. Finding, PAP, Moulson Grabner etc... for free was good work but the team was still in last with those players.

Remember, any idiot can lose and collect draft picks and prospects for 5 years. I am confident any poster from this board could have accomplished as little as Snow has in his tenure here. Losing is easy and should not be rewarded.

SNOW MUST GO!


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