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-   -   Top 25 Slovakian Players Of All-Time #2 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1334287)

the edler 01-27-2013 09:44 AM

Top 25 Slovakian Players Of All-Time #2
 
1. Peter Stastny

vadim sharifijanov 01-27-2013 10:30 AM

2 votes for hossa so far. i would love to hear arguments for hossa over chara. i just can't see how this is thinkable.

intylerwetrust 01-27-2013 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov (Post 58447661)
2 votes for hossa so far. i would love to hear arguments for hossa over chara. i just can't see how this is thinkable.

soon to be 500 goal, 1000 point player
1 Cup, 3 Cup finals with 3 different teams
great 2 way player

I voted Chara, but Hossa isnt THAT far behind

Ohashi_Jouzu 01-27-2013 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov (Post 58447661)
2 votes for hossa so far. i would love to hear arguments for hossa over chara. i just can't see how this is thinkable.

Well, with over 400 goals, three 40 goal seasons, lots of post season production, a "complete" game, and tonnes of international filler, the argument starts rounding out. And if we're counting "Slovakian Player of the Year" awards (given out since '98), it's actually 4-3 in favour of Hossa (Bondra and Satan with 3 each as well). It boils down to "accumulation" above "excellence", imo, but I could see how someone could vote for Hossa before Chara. I don't personally agree, but there's some weight in there.

begbeee 01-27-2013 11:55 AM

To me it's Chara. Satan would be pretty interesting given his international resume.

Disengage 01-27-2013 12:07 PM

Hard to go against Chara. #3-5 will be interesting

nik jr 01-27-2013 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov (Post 58447661)
2 votes for hossa so far. i would love to hear arguments for hossa over chara. i just can't see how this is thinkable.

i would pick chara, but i think it can be argued that hossa is more valuable in a non-structured environment.

vadim sharifijanov 01-27-2013 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik jr (Post 58452353)
i would pick chara, but i think it can be argued that hossa is more valuable in a non-structured environment.

that's the only real argument for hossa 've seen so far. everything else is "here's why it's close." and i agree it is close, but i think the distance btw the two is irrefutable.

that said, i just looked at hossa's career stats. did not realize he was so close to 500/1000.

seventieslord 01-27-2013 12:45 PM

if it wasn't easily Chara before, it is now.

vadim sharifijanov 01-27-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seventieslord (Post 58453871)
if it wasn't easily Chara before, it is now.

haha. when i posted, it was 4-2 in favor of chara. now it's 19-3.

kmad 01-27-2013 01:08 PM

Chara, add Michal Handzus

Rob Scuderi 01-27-2013 01:25 PM

Add Vincent Lukac or Igor Liba.

TheDevilMadeMe 01-27-2013 06:07 PM

I guess we're considering Nedomansky Czech for the purposes of these polls?

Ohashi_Jouzu 01-27-2013 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 58475927)
I guess we're considering Nedomansky Czech for the purposes of these polls?

Has to be the only way to go, regardless of whether he feels like a Slovak trapped in a Czech's body, or whatever. :)

Czech born, over a decade in the Czech Extraliga, represented the Czechs in two Olympics and however many more IIHF tournaments... pretty clear-cut case afaic.

Rob Scuderi 01-27-2013 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 58475927)
I guess we're considering Nedomansky Czech for the purposes of these polls?

Good question. I was sort of just deferring to the European posters, but at worst he'd have to be the 4th best Slovak, right?

TheDevilMadeMe 01-27-2013 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu (Post 58491887)
Has to be the only way to go, regardless of whether he feels like a Slovak trapped in a Czech's body, or whatever. :)

Czech born, over a decade in the Czech Extraliga, represented the Czechs in two Olympics and however many more IIHF tournaments... pretty clear-cut case afaic.

The Czechslovak Extraliga, represented Czechoslovakia in two Olympics and many more IIHF tournaments.

His village was given to the Czech Republic when Czechslovakia broke apart though.

TheDevilMadeMe 01-27-2013 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi (Post 58492191)
Good question. I was sort of just deferring to the European posters, but at worst he'd have to be the 4th best Slovak, right?

I think 3rd would be a tossup between Hossa and Nedomansky, with Palffy possibly having an argument if you really value peak.

Rob Scuderi 01-27-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 58494543)
I think 3rd would be a tossup between Hossa and Nedomansky, with Palffy possibly having an argument if you really value peak.

I could definitely buy third (in fact, I'd vote that way), I was just being conservative I suppose.

TheDevilMadeMe 01-27-2013 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi (Post 58494811)
I could definitely buy third (in fact, I'd vote that way), I was just being conservative I suppose.

As for "defering to the Europeans," I'm pretty sure one Slovak said Nedomansky was Slovak and one said he was Czech last time. :laugh::help:

Ohashi_Jouzu 01-27-2013 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 58494247)
The Czechslovak Extraliga, represented Czechoslovakia in two Olympics and many more IIHF tournaments.

His village was given to the Czech Republic when Czechslovakia broke apart though.

Fair enough. Honestly, I forgot that he played for Bratislava starting all the way back in developmental leagues (don't ask me... long day dealing with a 30 kid birthday party for a 3 year old...), which makes a huge difference. If it's even a consideration to toss out the birthplace, and go with where his developmental hockey was and where his "feelings" place him (a la Mikita), then I change my mind... guess he should be Slovak.

the edler 01-28-2013 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 58475927)
I guess we're considering Nedomansky Czech for the purposes of these polls?

Yes, unless someone presents irrefutable evidence he's not

Hardyvan123 01-28-2013 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by intylerwetrust (Post 58448831)
soon to be 500 goal, 1000 point player
1 Cup, 3 Cup finals with 3 different teams
great 2 way player

I voted Chara, but Hossa isnt THAT far behind

I was thinking the same thing and Chara just could dominate and influence a game like Hossa (or almost any forward) couldn't do.

begbeee 01-28-2013 01:18 AM

What kind of proof do you want?
When Bondra was born in Ukraine, does it mean he is considered Ukrainian, until someone brings irrefutable proof?

Let's sum up the facts:
1. born in nowadays Czech town Hodonin which is like 100m from nowadays Czecho-Slovakian borderline - don't forget at the time there was no border
2. born to Slovak parents (both are Slovak parents) - i.e. Chara's father is Czech, do we need another irrefutable proof for him? http://czechhockeyreport.blogspot.sk...al-man-of.html
3. he speaks czech language
4. he has chosen to play in Slovakia in Bratislava, at the time most Slovaks play in Slovak teams, most Czechs play in Czech (..and I mean very most of them) unless it was an army club, which Slovan Bratislav was not.
5. he has worked as a consultant and Norh-America manager for Slovak national team not Czech NT
6. finally considers himself Slovak

Article which says there was three Slovaks inducted into Czech Hockey Hall of Fame:
http://hokej.pravda.sk/ostatne/clano...i-aj-slovakov/

Why is he so easily considered czech, I've posted a lot of facts why he may be and is considered slovak? I think it's harder to prove he is czech, than he's slovak.

Darth Yoda 01-28-2013 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by begbeee (Post 58512799)
What kind of proof do you want?
When Bondra was born in Ukraine, does it mean he is considered Ukrainian, until someone brings irrefutable proof?

Let's sum up the facts:
1. born in nowadays Czech town Hodonin which is like 100m from nowadays Czecho-Slovakian borderline - don't forget at the time there was no border
2. born to Slovak parents (both are Slovak parents) - i.e. Chara's father is Czech, do we need another irrefutable proof for him? http://czechhockeyreport.blogspot.sk...al-man-of.html
3. he speaks czech language
4. he has chosen to play in Slovakia in Bratislava, at the time most Slovaks play in Slovak teams, most Czechs play in Czech (..and I mean very most of them) unless it was an army club, which Slovan Bratislav was not.
5. he has worked as a consultant and Norh-America manager for Slovak national team not Czech NT
6. finally considers himself Slovak

Article which says there was three Slovaks inducted into Czech Hockey Hall of Fame:
http://hokej.pravda.sk/ostatne/clano...i-aj-slovakov/

Why is he so easily considered czech, I've posted a lot of facts why he may be and is considered slovak? I think it's harder to prove he is czech, than he's slovak.

That he feels slovak, is that a fact? As i see it, becouse there was no slovak and czech citizenships when he played, it's how he feels that is of utmost importance. The czech language could just be becouse he adapted to where he was grown up, and as i understand it the two populations understand eachother rather well so it should not be a dealbreaker.

RECsGuy* 01-28-2013 02:13 AM

The lack of Palffy mentions in this thread disturbs. If he comes in lower than 4th on this list, I will be surprised.


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