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-   -   Speculation: Is Gunnarsson on Carlyle's bad side? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1334661)

MastuhNinks 01-27-2013 06:51 PM

Is Gunnarsson on Carlyle's bad side?
 
I cannot for the life of me understand why Gunnar is being so misused by Carlyle and Kostka is playing 25+ minutes a night. Gunnarsson and Phaneuf were great together last year, the one good pairing on our otherwise atrocious defense.

Let's look at how the Toronto Maple Leafs have done thus far with Gunnarsson on the ice vs Gunnarsson off the ice. Obviously it's a small sample size, but it's the only sameple size we have to work with, it's the only sample size Carlyle really has to work with (unless he wants to go back and look at Gunnarsson as a top pairing defender and Kostka as a non-NHLer), so really it's what should be used to shuffle around the depth chart.

Gunnarsson

GA OFF/60 = 4.23
GA ON/60 = 2.30
Difference = +1.93

GF ON/60 = 4.59
GF OFF/60 = 1.27
Difference = +3.32

Basically the Leafs have been absurdly better when Gunnarsson is on the ice, and yet he's getting 6 less minutes a game than Kostka and 2 less minutes a game than he had last year. What gives?

Same with Nazem Kadri and his team leading points total or his +28.4 corsi relative, what does he have to do to get more than 14 minutes of ice time a game?

EDIT: Awww c'mon, you mods are no fun.

leugangen 01-27-2013 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 58480139)
I cannot for the life of me understand why Gunnar is being so misused by Carlyle and Kostka is playing 25+ minutes a night. Gunnarsson and Phaneuf were great together last year, the one good pairing on our otherwise atrocious defense.

Let's look at how the Toronto Maple Leafs have done thus far with Gunnarsson on the ice vs Gunnarsson off the ice. Obviously it's a small sample size, but it's the only sameple size we have to work with, it's the only sample size Carlyle really has to work with (unless he wants to go back and look at Gunnarsson as a top pairing defender and Kostka as a non-NHLer), so really it's what should be used to shuffle around the depth chart.

Gunnarsson

GA OFF/60 = 4.23
GA ON/60 = 2.30
Difference = +1.93

GF ON/60 = 4.59
GF OFF/60 = 1.27
Difference = +3.32

Basically the Leafs have been absurdly better when Gunnarsson is on the ice, and yet he's getting 6 less minutes a game than Kostka and 2 less minutes a game than he had last year. What gives?

Same with Nazem Kadri and his team leading points total or his +28.4 corsi relative, what does he have to do to get more than 14 minutes of ice time a game?

EDIT: Awww c'mon, you mods are no fun.


Agree 1000% on Gunnarsson. I wonder if the Leafs are trying to make Komisarek look like a serviceable d-man by pairing Gunnar up with him.

As for Kadri, I like how they are using him. Sheltering him and getting him acclimated. Carlyle will slowly work him up in icetime. Right now he is giving Kadri a chance to succeed.

MastuhNinks 01-27-2013 07:01 PM

I was going to make a slightly more obscene title regarding Mike Kostka's relationship with Randy Carlyle but I opted not to. I'm happy with Kostka and it does seem like he deserves to be in the NHL, but not on a shutdown pairing that plays 25+ minutes a game. That's just way too damned much.

Parkdale 01-27-2013 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 58480139)
I cannot for the life of me understand why Gunnar is being so misused by Carlyle and Kostka is playing 25+ minutes a night. Gunnarsson and Phaneuf were great together last year, the one good pairing on our otherwise atrocious defense.

Let's look at how the Toronto Maple Leafs have done thus far with Gunnarsson on the ice vs Gunnarsson off the ice. Obviously it's a small sample size, but it's the only sameple size we have to work with, it's the only sample size Carlyle really has to work with (unless he wants to go back and look at Gunnarsson as a top pairing defender and Kostka as a non-NHLer), so really it's what should be used to shuffle around the depth chart.

Gunnarsson

GA OFF/60 = 4.23
GA ON/60 = 2.30
Difference = +1.93

GF ON/60 = 4.59
GF OFF/60 = 1.27
Difference = +3.32

Basically the Leafs have been absurdly better when Gunnarsson is on the ice, and yet he's getting 6 less minutes a game than Kostka and 2 less minutes a game than he had last year. What gives?

Same with Nazem Kadri and his team leading points total or his +28.4 corsi relative, what does he have to do to get more than 14 minutes of ice time a game?

EDIT: Awww c'mon, you mods are no fun.

I think you've made the argument that Gunnarsson is being used properly....

Phaneuf has done alright this year (last game excepted)...in many ways better than last year. Perhaps Kostka should be given more credit for Phaneuf's "improved" play. Gunnarsson, if he is as good as you think should upgrade the 2nd unit.

Penalty Kill Icing* 01-27-2013 07:05 PM

In this little fantasy of his with Kostka, I hope Carlyle notices that he is even ruining Phaneuf's game in the process.

Larcos_Unal 01-27-2013 07:07 PM

Randy is handling Kadri like a boss, but he's really dropping the ball with Kostka and Gunner.

LaPlante94 01-27-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 58480139)
I cannot for the life of me understand why Gunnar is being so misused by Carlyle and Kostka is playing 25+ minutes a night. Gunnarsson and Phaneuf were great together last year, the one good pairing on our otherwise atrocious defense.

Let's look at how the Toronto Maple Leafs have done thus far with Gunnarsson on the ice vs Gunnarsson off the ice. Obviously it's a small sample size, but it's the only sameple size we have to work with, it's the only sample size Carlyle really has to work with (unless he wants to go back and look at Gunnarsson as a top pairing defender and Kostka as a non-NHLer), so really it's what should be used to shuffle around the depth chart.

Gunnarsson

GA OFF/60 = 4.23
GA ON/60 = 2.30
Difference = +1.93

GF ON/60 = 4.59
GF OFF/60 = 1.27
Difference = +3.32

Basically the Leafs have been absurdly better when Gunnarsson is on the ice, and yet he's getting 6 less minutes a game than Kostka and 2 less minutes a game than he had last year. What gives?

Same with Nazem Kadri and his team leading points total or his +28.4 corsi relative, what does he have to do to get more than 14 minutes of ice time a game?

EDIT: Awww c'mon, you mods are no fun.


The question is do you think those numbers would stay the same or get worse if he was up against the top players from each team?

Drew311 01-27-2013 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 58481071)
I was going to make a slightly more obscene title regarding Mike Kostka's relationship with Randy Carlyle but I opted not to. I'm happy with Kostka and it does seem like he deserves to be in the NHL, but not on a shutdown pairing that plays 25+ minutes a game. That's just way too damned much.

Does the current title even make sense?

Hurt 01-27-2013 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew311 (Post 58482007)
Does the current title even make sense?

I think so?

Jerkini 01-27-2013 07:14 PM

I thought he was keeping them separated to bring stability to the entire defence core, from top to bottom. Same reason Liles rarely plays with Phaneuf or Gunnarson.

Stephen 01-27-2013 07:16 PM

It's a domino effect.

The egregious error of playing Mike Kostka 30+ minutes a night is going to hurt all five other defensemen.

DougGilmour93 01-27-2013 07:17 PM

Let's get rid of Carlyle and bring up Eakins just like Nonis' wants anyways. That way Nonis doesn't have any more excuses for this team being as bad as it is.

number72 01-27-2013 07:21 PM

Carlyle is probably splitting up the two best defenders? Alternatively, maybe Gunnar wanted an easier job then cleaning up after Phaneuf's bad pinches and mental lapses.

MastuhNinks 01-27-2013 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaPlante94 (Post 58481785)
The question is do you think those numbers would stay the same or get worse if he was up against the top players from each team?

His numbers will undoubetdly get worse as the season goes on, even if he isn't up against the top players. They're unsustainbly great, like, ridiculously great. Still, the fact remains that the team has been insanely better while Gunnar is on the ice.

ponder 01-27-2013 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastuhNinks (Post 58480139)
I cannot for the life of me understand why Gunnar is being so misused by Carlyle and Kostka is playing 25+ minutes a night. Gunnarsson and Phaneuf were great together last year, the one good pairing on our otherwise atrocious defense.

Let's look at how the Toronto Maple Leafs have done thus far with Gunnarsson on the ice vs Gunnarsson off the ice. Obviously it's a small sample size, but it's the only sameple size we have to work with, it's the only sample size Carlyle really has to work with (unless he wants to go back and look at Gunnarsson as a top pairing defender and Kostka as a non-NHLer), so really it's what should be used to shuffle around the depth chart.

Gunnarsson

GA OFF/60 = 4.23
GA ON/60 = 2.30
Difference = +1.93

GF ON/60 = 4.59
GF OFF/60 = 1.27
Difference = +3.32

Basically the Leafs have been absurdly better when Gunnarsson is on the ice, and yet he's getting 6 less minutes a game than Kostka and 2 less minutes a game than he had last year. What gives?

Same with Nazem Kadri and his team leading points total or his +28.4 corsi relative, what does he have to do to get more than 14 minutes of ice time a game?

EDIT: Awww c'mon, you mods are no fun.

Team stats like +/- and corsi have very little meaning w.r.t. an individual player for small sample sizes. With that being said, I do agree that Gunnarsson should be receiving more minutes, and Kostka less. Kostka looks decent, but he shouldn't be averaging over 25 mpg, and Gunnarsson was a reliable partner for Phaenuf last year.

MastuhNinks 01-27-2013 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ponder (Post 58484239)
Team stats like +/- and corsi have very little meaning w.r.t. an individual player for small sample sizes. With that being said, I do agree that Gunnarsson should be receiving more minutes, and Kostka less. Kostka looks decent, but he shouldn't be averaging over 25 mpg, and Gunnarsson was a reliable partner for Phaenuf last year.

Well my main point was you could either look at 2013 so far (with the team playing absurdly better while Gunnar is out there), or you could look at track record (Gunnarsson being a top pairing defender vs Kostka being.... Yeah), either way, Gunnarsson wins.

12345* 01-27-2013 07:39 PM

The split is to bring stability to a 2nd pairing. Kostka is getting those minutes because he plays with Phaneuf, not because Kostka necessarily deserves them.

masyo88* 01-27-2013 07:46 PM

Is Kostka being used as trade bait? No way a 27 career AHler can be getting this many, playing average, unless this is part of something bigger.

Corleone 01-27-2013 07:46 PM

Real question is: why is Liles not on our 1st PP?

Hurt 01-27-2013 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masyo88 (Post 58487841)
Is Kostka being used as trade bait? No way a 27 career AHler can be getting this many, playing average, unless this is part of something bigger.

What type of (significant) value would Kostka have anyways?

mcleex 01-27-2013 07:52 PM

Wasn't he 3rd in ice-time behind Kostka and Phaneuf?

Drew311 01-27-2013 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corleone (Post 58487917)
Real question is: why is Liles not on our 1st PP?

That's a question i've been asking all season.

p.l.f. 01-27-2013 07:55 PM

carlyle is playing guys that work hard
kostka komarov
and using less the ones that arent
franson and co.

where gunn fits not so sure
he's working hard to me

emackulate 01-27-2013 07:55 PM

i thought it was because carlyle wanted phaneuf to play on his strong side (left side). but i guess it would make sense to split duties of their two stronger defenseman.

masyo88* 01-27-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurt (Post 58488449)
What type of (significant) value would Kostka have anyways?

Who knows maybe a sweetener in a deal? I really don't see anything special with Kostka.


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