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-   -   Post Game Talk: Plus/Minus Thread | Penguins 2, Senators 1 (SO) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1334693)

shureshot66 01-27-2013 07:17 PM

Plus/Minus Thread | Penguins 2, Senators 1 (SO)
 
Certainly wasn't pretty. And as many noted in the GDT, there's still a lot of work to be done. Thankfully it's still January and there are about 20-some other teams still looking sloppy as well.

+ Credit to the defensive corps as a whole. Playing 45 minutes without a solid top-four guy like Niskanen has been so far is very alarming. Martin and Orpik continue to impress. Letang was less than stellar. As a whole, I can't complain too much, given the situation.

+ Fleury played as well as could be expected. Outside of a couple fluky bounces and the inevitable puckhandling adventures, he was the biggest reason for this win.

+ The breakouts were much more disciplined. But that's not saying a ton after the Winnipeg game. Bylsma's biggest deficiency remains in-game adjustments rather than the day-to-day stuff, in my opinion. A few bad turnovers, including Malkin's that led to the goal, but the point seemed to get drilled home well enough to the roster.

- Kunitz continues to struggle badly. Bad turnovers, missing the net on shots, and a forecheck that isn't up to speed yet. One hopes that it's still partially a case of conditioning problems from the lockout, but it's concerning all the same. Ideally the Pens are able to bring in a bona fide scorer for Sid's line and see if Kunitz can round back into form with Malkin and Neal.

- Very rough night for the power play. Tying into the previous point, I don't think Kunitz deserves to be out there with the first unit right now. But obviously the problems tonight went well beyond the guy in front of the net. Choppy play, poor job gaining the blue line and general indecision. The man-advantage should be what makes the difference in a game like this, and it failed tonight.

Malkin probably deserves his own category. Gorgeous effort and vision to create a goal and then just a lack of awareness of the situation to give one right back. The good *probably* outweighed the bad tonight, but man -- some of those lazy drop passes just make you tear your hair out.

eXile59 01-27-2013 07:20 PM

+The break out
++ Paul Martin

-Ben Lovejoy still has incriminating photos of Bylsma

SirBrad 01-27-2013 07:20 PM

Was Anderson the games 1st star after allowing 3 of 3 SO goals or am I seeing things?

Zatch88 01-27-2013 07:21 PM

+Fleury and D

-Powerplay. What the hells goin on out there?

shureshot66 01-27-2013 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirBrad (Post 58483767)
Was Anderson the games 1st star after allowing 3 of 3 SO goals or am I seeing things?

It varies from arena to arena, but in most places those votes are tallied up before the shootout.

TheGoldenJet 01-27-2013 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shureshot66 (Post 58483351)
Kunitz continues to struggle badly. Bad turnovers, missing the net on shots, and a forecheck that isn't up to speed yet. One hopes that it's still partially a case of conditioning problems from the lockout, but it's concerning all the same. Ideally the Pens are able to bring in a bona fide scorer for Sid's line and see if Kunitz can round back into form with Malkin and Neal.

This is what is stopping Pitt from being a legitimate Cup contender atm. Shero just needs to acquire a solid top 6 winger, thats it.

Ugene Malkin 01-27-2013 07:22 PM

The Shift - ++ one for the shift and the the other for making himself noticed after it.

Martin +
Niskanen +
Defensive play +
Shootout +

- Niskanen getting hurt
Kunitz -
Geno - or =
Sundays -
PP -

Zen Arcade 01-27-2013 07:23 PM

+Huge plays by Engelland and Martin in OT.

mpp9 01-27-2013 07:23 PM

Kunitz is hot garbage. He isn't enough for Sid as a 2nd wheel anymore.

Martin played very well of course. But what surprised me was how well he was playing in the offensive zone. Very calm. Made some nice plays to spin away from a defender at the blue line.

I'd definitely go with Martin/Niskanen and Sid/Neal/Geno up front on the PP. Kunitz isn't providing any screens and is more often nowhere near the net. He serves no purpose. Get it done with different plays where one of the forwards goes to the net after a give and go.

Hopefully Niskanen is all right. Need that guy in the lineup. He is looking like a guy who isn't done developing. Keep him here as long as possible.

Sutter was meh tonight. I think everything will fall into place when we bring in a top 6 forward. Less pressure on the bottom six to score.

Engelland had his strongest game of the season. Maybe he plays better with more minutes.

Uemoda 01-27-2013 07:24 PM

++ Lack of stretch passes
+++ Forwards backchecking
++++ Overall effort level

--- Powerplay
-------Lovejoy
--Kunitz

Darth Vitale 01-27-2013 07:25 PM

+ In-zone D and Fleury

- Transition Game absolutely sucked again, just not as many giveaways. Slow / Zero Flow, 100% predictable, more ridiculous air-flip crapola and trying to change up the zone entry by giving it to guys with no business carrying the puck, etc. The only they did better was reset when things weren't open, and supporting with more short passes than last game.

- Kunitz is really starting to piss me off with the sloppy passes and giveaways. Geno's end of game behind-the-backer was a really stupid move also.

Sutter16 01-27-2013 07:26 PM

Really hope Niskanen is OK. Huge part of our blueline. Malkin had good shifts and bad shifts tonight. Bad turnovers again. Engelland and Martin played excellent.

SirBrad 01-27-2013 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shureshot66 (Post 58484129)
It varies from arena to arena, but in most places those votes are tallied up before the shootout.

Good point didn't consider that.

Le Magnifique 66 01-27-2013 07:27 PM

Actually very glad we hanged on to Martin. Glad we came away with the 2 points, big win excellent shoot out by our big 3

NastyNick 01-27-2013 07:27 PM

- On the powerplay i think Letang has been the big issue. His puckhandling has been tenative. I noticed a huge upgrade when Niskanen and Martin are out there instead. Kunitz i honestly don't know where he is or what hes doing most of the time. I feel like the other team is just ignoring him and playing man to man on us.

JTG 01-27-2013 07:28 PM

I thought the defense as a whole played very well. It's encouraging to see. I think Paul Martin has been outstanding, as has Matt Niskanen.

This offense is just out of sorts. There looks to be no sort of chemistry at all.

I definitely think we're going to see some moves here very shortly.

Le Magnifique 66 01-27-2013 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyNick (Post 58485159)
- On the powerplay i think Letang has been the big issue. His puckhandling has been tenative. I noticed a huge upgrade when Niskanen and Martin are out there instead. Kunitz i honestly don't know where he is or what hes doing most of the time. I feel like the other team is just ignoring him and playing man to man on us.

He is really shaky, every pass every play Letang makes seems so complicated

KIRK 01-27-2013 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGoldenJet (Post 58484179)
This is what is stopping Pitt from being a legitimate Cup contender atm. Shero just needs to acquire a solid top 6 winger, thats it.

From a personnel perspective, yes.

Same as last year.

KIRK 01-27-2013 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 (Post 58485291)
He is really shaky, every pass every play Letang makes seems so complicated

I think at this point I'd like to see Tangradi in Kunitz's place. I don't subscribe to the theory that Tangradi is anything special, but at least he'll go park his *** in front of the net. Pretty hard to move the puck around looking for a perfect shot only to have nobody screening the goalie.

IcedCapp 01-27-2013 07:31 PM

+ Martin: Takes mental toughness to come back from last year's performance plus all of the negative things written and said about him. He's been very good in his own end and has been pretty good handling the puck in the O-zone. Still can't shoot to save his life, but he's earned his salary through the first 4 games.

+ Niskanen: Obviously a minus that he got hurt, but he's their best dman right now, right?

+ Fleury: Reason they were able to win it, I guess. Something still seems "off" with him, he seems to be fighting a lot of pucks, but he made all the big stops and did just enough in the shootout to get the 2 points. Wish he'd stop handling the puck behind the net.

+ Sid: I thought he was flying, thought he was creating, thought he was active in all 3 zones. Sometimes he can overcome the guys flanking him, sometimes he can't.

+ Engo: Rough games against the Leafs and Jets, but he was great tonight, especially in the 3rd period and OT. Given his toughness, physicality, and contract, he's a vital little piece to the overall puzzle. Great bounce-back effort tonight, and he did it with multiple partners.

I would like to give a plus to Eric Tangradi, but I don't want to have to defend it, so, whatever, let's just shoot him and get it over with.


= Bylsma: Like that they were able to fix the breakouts and some Dzone stuff, but his management of the roster (vis-a-vis Despres/Lovejoy) and the lines (allow people to develop a rhythm) are as aggravating as ever.

= Neal: Great shot, awesome goal, but an overall inconsistent game.

= Malkin: Same as #18. Lots of positives, lots of negatives. Was his penalty actually warranted? Never got a good look at is as Potvin was too busy giving a speech about how Malkin needed to be tried for attempted murder.

= Kennedy: I like what he brings when he brings it on the 3rd line. Hopefully the 3rd period is an indication that Byslma agrees and he'll look elsewhere for 2nd-line replacements.

- Chris Kunitz: Can't skate with the puck, can't pass, can't receive passes, can't shoot, can't score, can't play D. Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? It sucked.

- Ben Lovejoy: He's not an NHLer... not strong enough to win battles and he consistently has mental breakdowns around his own net allowing his guy to get free. I need to know what Simon Despres did to warrant this. :)

- Kris Letang: Yuck. *but* Letang is the player I'm least concerned with. His issues all seem to be timing and rhythm and I think he'll work through them as the season goes along. The speed and effort are there, it's just everything else that needs to fall into place.

- PP: See Letang, Kunitz, Neal, and Malkin

Le Magnifique 66 01-27-2013 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIRK (Post 58485317)
From a personnel perspective, yes.

Same as last year.

But last year scoring wasn't a problem in the playoffs, but we still need that extra top 6

KIRK 01-27-2013 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale (Post 58484699)
+ In-zone D and Fleury

- Transition Game absolutely sucked again, just not as many giveaways. Slow / Zero Flow, 100% predictable, more ridiculous air-flip crapola and trying to change up the zone entry by giving it to guys with no business carrying the puck, etc. The only they did better was reset when things weren't open, and supporting with more short passes than last game.

- Kunitz is really starting to piss me off with the sloppy passes and giveaways. Geno's end of game behind-the-backer was a really stupid move also.

But, hey, we won . . . ;)

Le Magnifique 66 01-27-2013 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIRK (Post 58485599)
I think at this point I'd like to see Tangradi in Kunitz's place. I don't subscribe to the theory that Tangradi is anything special, but at least he'll go park his *** in front of the net. Pretty hard to move the puck around looking for a perfect shot only to have nobody screening the goalie.

Wouldn't be against it and could give us a mini decent 2nd waive on the pp

Al Smith 01-27-2013 07:33 PM

+ Team for grinding out a tough, ugly win on the road against a good team
+ All defensemen (including Lovejoy) - one goal and not a lot of scoring chances for the first 45 or 50 minutes. And the goal was really the result of two Geno brain farts on the same sequence.
+ Fleury - tough when he needed to be (But that one that landed on the goal line might have changed things.
+ Flyers losing ugly in TB

= Geno

- Sutter
- Kunitz - he needs to realize at 33 you need to be Gary Roberts-eque in your conditioning, and he clearly ain't there. I thought he was going to collapse after his blue line giveaway. Thankfully Engo had his back.

GrouperTrooper 01-27-2013 07:33 PM

- The phrase "Kunitz can't handle the pass"


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