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-   -   Speculation: Ideal System for the Flyers: Now and the Future (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1335361)

sobrien 01-28-2013 03:07 PM

Ideal System for the Flyers: Now and the Future
 
I love the way Peter Laviolette coaches, and I'd like him here long term. But his stubbornness and unwillingness to adjust his system to cater to his big, slow/old defense, young forwards, and inconsistent goaltender (yes I know he's been tremendously better) continues to drive me nuts.

I refuse to believe that this defensive personnel is THAT bad. No we don't have a true #1 anymore, but our top 5 defensemen, when healthy, should be among the best in the league. And we're not throwing Lukas Krajicek out there anymore, we have about 5 serviceable 5/6 d-men in the organizaiton. The forwards...we brag about having all these guys with defensive upsides and good two way awareness (Couturier, Schenn, Fedotenko, Talbot), or just the effort (Simmonds, Voracek, Read, Giroux)...yet they're AWFUL backchecking 5v5.

We've got some good players we could see in the next few seasons like Laughton, Cousins, Noebels, Gostisbehere, and Stolarz...not to mention Bryz for 8 more years (likely starting for 4-6 of them). If we could change it up today, what would be the ideal system going forward for this team to succeed?

Beef Invictus 01-28-2013 03:20 PM

Well...we have Terry Murray on the Phantoms. I imagine if Lavi goes, he comes up.

sa cyred 01-28-2013 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beef Invictus (Post 58535327)
Well...we have Terry Murray on the Phantoms. I imagine if Lavi goes, he comes up.

Well murray isnt doing the best job down there. I know he doesnt have the best players but i haven been impressed with what he has done. Still disappointed they got rid of Patterson. I personally think he did a better job.

dawkins121 01-28-2013 03:39 PM

I hate how exposed our system leaves the D and goalie but it's a lot more fun to watch than most other teams. I just wish our forwards would learn to backcheck a little more diligantly.

FreshPerspective 01-28-2013 03:51 PM

I had started a similar thread about the merits of Lavi's system especially given the personnel. It was a piggyback off of a Meltzer blog post that discussed Lavi being pushed by the GM and owner to change the system a bit and tighten up the D to benefit Bryz. Started off good then devolved into a Bryz bash fest. Luckily Bryz is doing good so I think this thread will have more staying power and not get hijacked..

Anyway..point it that I think Lavi has adjusted somewhat and at least I saw a bit of it against the Rangers but the Rangers weren't on their game and so far against the other two maddening defensive teams that befuddle the Flyers (Devils and TB) the Flyers have looked pretty much lost in the woods...

It's hard to judge how much Lavi has adapted or can adapt with the help of people like Paddock as an eye in the sky given the few games played thus far but doesn't look too great so far...but yeah the players ultimately have to take responsibility for working and executing the system....if they don't questions have to be asked as to why?

LuigiStone* 01-28-2013 03:54 PM

I hate him. I want someone like Randy Carlyle, Ted Nolan or Claude Julien.

RoDu 01-28-2013 03:59 PM

There isn't anyone out there who would be a decent replacement

FreshPerspective 01-28-2013 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuigiStone (Post 58537267)
I hate him. I want someone like Randy Carlyle, Ted Nolan or Claude Julien.

yeah yeah nice sarcasm....

Doesn't matter whether we like him...we have no bearing on the outcome of whether he stays or not. However, it does matter what the players think of him and his system. They have to believe in it and if they don't then unfortunately you can't fire the whole team so Lavi gets ousted as a lot of coaches do. It's a short shelf life as coach in the NHL and there is a reason for it and coaches like Lavi and Torts and even Hitch are especially known to be short shelf lifers especially since they are task master types and don't typically like to change things up...heck even Sutter in LA is know to be this type...

FreshPerspective 01-28-2013 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoDu (Post 58537577)
There isn't anyone out there who would be a decent replacement

True but again when a coach loses his team there isn't much choice but to get a replacement. Not saying Lavi has lost his team but if they continue to look lost against defensive teams like NJ, Tampa and a fresh Ranger team and other teams that are D oriented then they might lose trust in his message...just sayin.

Lavi is not a bad coach at all but his reputation precedes him that his task master ways can tire a team and even he knows it. I mean in Carolina the locker room particularly Brindamour ran him out of town after winning a cup no less...

dbr2 01-28-2013 04:15 PM

Not too sure who everyone wants. I don't want Murray again, guy is a black hole with offense.

Drouin2Stamkos 01-28-2013 04:18 PM

I saw you guys played some 1-3-1 yesterday. Maybe you guys are thinking it wasnt such a bad system or that was only VS/NBC sports that didnt like it. I forget. :laugh:

dbr2 01-28-2013 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvanOberg (Post 58538665)
I saw you guys played some 1-3-1 yesterday. Maybe you guys are thinking it wasnt such a bad system or that was only VS/NBC sports that didnt like it. I forget. :laugh:

I didn't see us playing any 1-3-1 or zone defenses for that matter.

FreshPerspective 01-28-2013 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbr2 (Post 58539113)
I didn't see us playing any 1-3-1 or zone defenses for that matter.

Against the Rangers I noticed it if I recall..or at least at times in the game. Easy to notice from the stands..on TV not so obvious sometimes.

The Devils and TB games I watched with one eye open ..gripping my pillow tight...

GKJ 01-28-2013 04:45 PM

Not sure what you want him to change. Coaches want players to play to their system. Not the other way around.

And he runs his system because that is an attractive style of play. The Flyers as an organizational philosophy are against the trap. We'll never have a system where 3 guys line up at the red line and a defenseman hangs back.

Go For It 01-28-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKJ (Post 58540249)
Not sure what you want him to change. Coaches want players to play to their system. Not the other way around.

And he runs his system because that is an attractive style of play. The Flyers as an organizational philosophy are against the trap. We'll never have a system where 3 guys line up at the red line and a defenseman hangs back.

Except we definitely have this year. I noticed it when I was at the Rangers game and thought I saw it during the Panthers game.

Sonny21 01-28-2013 07:17 PM

As an outside fan I hope you guys don't change.

However I do get 100% what op means, as Leafs with Wilson was the same. I just don't want to lose one of the few remaining exciting teams left in hockey, so selfishly I hope noting changes.

MsWoof 01-28-2013 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKJ (Post 58540249)
Not sure what you want him to change. Coaches want players to play to their system. Not the other way around.

And he runs his system because that is an attractive style of play. The Flyers as an organizational philosophy are against the trap. We'll never have a system where 3 guys line up at the red line and a defenseman hangs back.

Attractive to whom? I didn't enjoy watching them fall down 0-2 with a time out halfway through the first over and over again. There has to be more attention to defence and he seems too stubborn to change. I loved Lavi when he first got here, his passion and fire was great, especially because he was so different from Stevens but he doesn't even look like his heart is in it this year. He doesn't freak out behind the bench anymore, he is looking more like Terry Murray and his 1 expression.

Dallas Eakins is a highly thought of AHL coach with the Marlies and might be the guy to watch as a replacement.

Dirty but Good 01-29-2013 01:00 AM

I think the current state of the flyers defenseman and goalkeepers will keep any system to work for them. They need to improve the back end in order to deal with the forechecking pressure from teams like the devils.

I don't think the offense is a huge problem but they seem to be trying to be too cute though the neutral zone. The flyers are a team that's most successful when they dump the puck in and get a forechecking cycle going creating havoc in front of the net and rolling all four lines. Especially with the stricter interference calls on dump ins it's a little less challenging to get to the puck first.

Special teams have been pretty bad too though, maybe it's time to ditch the umbrella on PP and as for penalty kill go back to the aggressive high pressure pk like in the late 2000s

GKJ 01-29-2013 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go For It (Post 58540889)
Except we definitely have this year. I noticed it when I was at the Rangers game and thought I saw it during the Panthers game.

OK, well, in the Rangers game they started taking a bunch of penalties, and against the Panthers they were up so big that it didn't matter. The team let off the gas in that game, they did get out-shot. As a base strategy though, they will never, ever trap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsWoof (Post 58552185)
Attractive to whom? I didn't enjoy watching them fall down 0-2 with a time out halfway through the first over and over again. There has to be more attention to defence and he seems too stubborn to change. I loved Lavi when he first got here, his passion and fire was great, especially because he was so different from Stevens but he doesn't even look like his heart is in it this year. He doesn't freak out behind the bench anymore, he is looking more like Terry Murray and his 1 expression.

Dallas Eakins is a highly thought of AHL coach with the Marlies and might be the guy to watch as a replacement.

Lavy might not get too angry anymore, because this is around the time he got fired from the Hurricanes (sooner with the Islanders). He knows what got him fired, and he knows he doesn't want to go the same road. He told a room full of fans that he's not naive enough to think he won't get fired again. He can't scream and yell every time anymore.

Also, it's a failing of the GM if he does not give the coach the personnel to run the coach's system. That's across all sports.

Protest 01-29-2013 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go For It (Post 58540889)
Except we definitely have this year. I noticed it when I was at the Rangers game and thought I saw it during the Panthers game.

Every team traps in certain situations, but I think the point was that won't be the Flyers main philosophy anytime soon.

I actually think Lavy has adjusted as I don't see the D activated as much as before. Maybe the players themselves just aren't comfortable doing it, and are being more cautious. Either way, it doesn't seem as aggressive. A lot of our breakdowns are coming in the d zone, which could be from the forwards looking to get on the offensive too soon, but to me it looks like they just don't have a lot of players with good defensive instincts.

GKJ 01-29-2013 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protest (Post 58586227)
Every team traps in certain situations, but I think the point was that won't be the Flyers main philosophy anytime soon.

I actually think Lavy has adjusted as I don't see the D activated as much as before. Maybe the players themselves just aren't comfortable doing it, and are being more cautious. Either way, it doesn't seem as aggressive. A lot of our breakdowns are coming in the d zone, which could be from the forwards looking to get on the offensive too soon, but to me it looks like they just don't have a lot of players with good defensive instincts.

We also have one guy on each pair who is new to the system (at least when Grossmann and Coburn aren't together), although I don't think any of them have looked uncomfortable in general.

kicksave27 01-29-2013 01:10 PM

They are simply terrible in their own end when pressured. It's how the devils killed them in the playoffs last year, reverse and reverse some more, usually leading to a turnover. The kings did two short passes and out of the zone they went.

BernieParent 01-29-2013 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kicksave27 (Post 58597953)
They are simply terrible in their own end when pressured. It's how the devils killed them in the playoffs last year, reverse and reverse some more, usually leading to a turnover. The kings did two short passes and out of the zone they went.

I couldn't agree more. They need a much better D-zone breakout plan, and if the opposition goes all out to pressure them, then send a cherry-picker to centre ice to stretch their D.


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