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-   -   What does PK's contract mean for Hammer? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1336109)

StrongIslanders90 01-29-2013 09:49 AM

What does PK's contract mean for Hammer?
 
PK Subban signed for 2 years at $2.875 per..... Imo thats a steal....

I believe the Isles will sign Hammer long term anywhere from 4-6 years....

If he was signed at 5 yrs 4 mil per I dont think Isles fans would mind.

He is def worth it. He is our #1 shutdown guy...

My question is does the PK contract have any affect on Hammer this summer?
Could we get him cheaper than hes worth?
What terms would some of you like to see for the Hammer?

bigd 01-29-2013 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 (Post 58590869)
PK Subban signed for 2 years at $2.875 per..... Imo thats a steal....

I believe the Isles will sign Hammer long term anywhere from 4-6 years....

If he was signed at 5 yrs 4 mil per I dont think Isles fans would mind.

He is def worth it. He is our #1 shutdown guy...

My question is does the PK contract have any affect on Hammer this summer?
Could we get him cheaper than hes worth?
What terms would some of you like to see for the Hammer?

If he gets that kind of contract then Streit is gone. I don't think he's a 4mil per year player yet. JMO

Beastrt 01-29-2013 10:38 AM

Look for the islanders to try to get under 4 mil per, 3.5 mil for 5 years is more like it for hammer. I think 5 yrs 20 is fair, but the islanders will use subbans contract to get under that.

I think streit is gone anyway , I really think the islanders are gonna try to go with more shutdown defenders then streit. I see next years D looking like this.

Hamonic, Mcdonold
Reinhart /? (veteran puck moving d)
Donavan/Carkner

IceAce 01-29-2013 10:58 AM

Nothing, unless Hammer starts putting up PK's numbers.

kasper11 01-29-2013 11:01 AM

1) In terms of real money, the Subban contract is not $2.875 per. He will only receive 1/2 of the money owed for this year but the entire amount ($3.75) for next. Factoring that in, it is worth over $3.1M per.

2) The Isles prefer to lock up young players for a longer period. Which is probably smart.

I would expect Hamonic's next contract to be 4-5 years at $3-3.5M. A little more than Okposo got.

CREW99AW 01-29-2013 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kasper11 (Post 58594179)
1) In terms of real money, the Subban contract is not $2.875 per. He will only receive 1/2 of the money owed for this year but the entire amount ($3.75) for next. Factoring that in, it is worth over $3.1M per.

2) The Isles prefer to lock up young players for a longer period. Which is probably smart.

I would expect Hamonic's next contract to be 4-5 years at $3-3.5M. A little more than Okposo got.

Before the Subban contract, looking at the Fowler and Carlson contracts, I was thinking $3.5-$4m per for Hamonic.

But, now I think Snow can make an argument for a lower salary.

I'd be very happy, if Hamonic signed for the numbers you propose.

SLAPSHOT723 01-29-2013 12:01 PM

He'll sign a long term deal I would guess, like Okposo, Grabner, Nielsen, etc.

twentytwo 01-29-2013 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceAce (Post 58594035)
Nothing, unless Hammer starts putting up PK's numbers.

My thoughts exactly.

kasper11 01-29-2013 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CREW99AW (Post 58597303)
Before the Subban contract, looking at the Fowler and Carlson contracts, I was thinking $3.5-$4m per for Hamonic.

But, now I think Snow can make an argument for a lower salary.

I'd be very happy, if Hamonic signed for the numbers you propose.

I just think it is a lot easier for an agent to point to offensive contributions than defensive. I would rather have Hamonic than Fowler or Carlson, but he doesn't have the easily quantifiable numbers.

StrongIslanders90 01-29-2013 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twentytwo (Post 58597617)
My thoughts exactly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceAce (Post 58594035)
Nothing, unless Hammer starts putting up PK's numbers.

you both made my point.....Hammer's offensive number are not close to PK's so Im say that the Isles could use PK's contract to justify paying Hammer a lesser amount...

I love PK, but in a defensive situation I take Hammer over him. On the PP I take PK...

StrongIslanders90 01-29-2013 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kasper11 (Post 58597707)
I just think it is a lot easier for an agent to point to offensive contributions than defensive. I would rather have Hamonic than Fowler or Carlson, but he doesn't have the easily quantifiable numbers.

This is a great point... The offensive defensman will always make bigger bucks over the more defensive guys...

IMO I would love a guy he can stop the other teams top fowards over a guy who can chip in on offense....

Also Hammer does have an underated offensive game, hes just counted on so uch defensivley that he has not pinched and chiped in as much....

He makes crisp clean passes and has a rocket of a shot..

bigd 01-29-2013 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 (Post 58602871)
you both made my point.....Hammer's offensive number are not close to PK's so Im say that the Isles could use PK's contract to justify paying Hammer a lesser amount...

I love PK, but in a defensive situation I take Hammer over him. On the PP I take PK...

I think they are going to sign him for about 5 years at about 3mil per year. I'm not a big PK fan. I'd much rather build a team around an all round good defenseman like Hammer who is more of a team player.

Islander Prophet 01-29-2013 02:41 PM

Is Subban signed for under 3M per yer, it's gonna hard for Hamonic to argue any more than that, so I think that is really good for us

redbull 01-29-2013 03:13 PM

newsflash: Hamonic is a FAR better defenseman than PK Subban.

Subban is better offensively, flashier, but he's very mistake prone, poor defensively (both in coverage and winning puck battles) and cannot come close to Hamonic in physical play or play against opposing top players in a shutdown role.

It's like comparing Streit to Hamonic, it's a bit odd. But I'd take Hamonic 10 times out of 10 over a lot of young dmen in the NHL. They have all struggled at times (Tyler Myers, Bogosian, Doughty, Fowler, Del Zotto, Subban, L Schenn) and I'd argue that Hamonic has it tougher than all of them, given the team's situation and the minutes he's playing, in the toughest division no less.

Obviously Hamonic is not in the Doughty range of dmen, but for what he does and does well, there aren't many young dmen as good as Hamonic (or OLD dmen). Maybe a cross between Adam Foote and Rob Blake (closer to Foote) - but no Ray Bourque to lean on and hardly great goal-tending and team surrounding him.

The kid will get huge dollars and he's worth every penny.

IceAce 01-29-2013 04:08 PM

I think Hamonic is that rare player that fans give credit to for being better than he actually he is. He's like the Bizarro Okposo.

Don't get me wrong, guy is a solid young player (although he's had some issues early on this season) and one day MAY be the player people want him to be, but some here are WAY over-inflating his current value. Too much confusion of potential for performance.

What has he really done at the NHL level thus far in his career? Not much you can't point to on a stat sheet to be making some of these comparisons that are going on here.

IslesFanatic 01-29-2013 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd (Post 58591161)
If he gets that kind of contract then Streit is gone. I don't think he's a 4mil per year player yet. JMO

I agree 4 million is too much. I would say his contract would be similar. I think that PK is probably just as good if not better than Travis at this point.

IslesFanatic 01-29-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceAce (Post 58610393)
I think Hamonic is that rare player that fans give credit to for being better than he actually he is. He's like the Bizarro Okposo.

Don't get me wrong, guy is a solid young player (although he's had some issues early on this season) and one day MAY be the player people want him to be, but some here are WAY over-inflating his current value. Too much confusion of potential for performance.

What has he really done at the NHL level thus far in his career? Not much you can't point to on a stat sheet to be making some of these comparisons that are going on here.

I agree.

A Pointed Stick 01-29-2013 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbull (Post 58607335)
newsflash: Hamonic is a FAR better defenseman than PK Subban.

Subban is better offensively, flashier, but he's very mistake prone, poor defensively (both in coverage and winning puck battles) and cannot come close to Hamonic in physical play or play against opposing top players in a shutdown role.

It's like comparing Streit to Hamonic, it's a bit odd. But I'd take Hamonic 10 times out of 10 over a lot of young dmen in the NHL. They have all struggled at times (Tyler Myers, Bogosian, Doughty, Fowler, Del Zotto, Subban, L Schenn) and I'd argue that Hamonic has it tougher than all of them, given the team's situation and the minutes he's playing, in the toughest division no less.

Obviously Hamonic is not in the Doughty range of dmen, but for what he does and does well, there aren't many young dmen as good as Hamonic (or OLD dmen). Maybe a cross between Adam Foote and Rob Blake (closer to Foote) - but no Ray Bourque to lean on and hardly great goal-tending and team surrounding him.

The kid will get huge dollars and he's worth every penny.

Foote and Blake were more hard nosed, really going out of their way to separate your head from your body. Blake was also more dynamic, but if there was any one path I'd want Hamonic to take, it would be the same one as Rob Blake.

A Pointed Stick 01-29-2013 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceAce (Post 58610393)
I think Hamonic is that rare player that fans give credit to for being better than he actually he is. He's like the Bizarro Okposo.

Don't get me wrong, guy is a solid young player (although he's had some issues early on this season) and one day MAY be the player people want him to be, but some here are WAY over-inflating his current value. Too much confusion of potential for performance.

What has he really done at the NHL level thus far in his career? Not much you can't point to on a stat sheet to be making some of these comparisons that are going on here.

You have some saying he is a first pair player right now. That's just not true and last game proved it because he was that bad. But, I agree with those saying he will be a first pair defenseman eventually. That is where this journey ends for him, and I look forward to it very much.

And for those who will be inclined to tell me to look at the minutes I preemptively tell them he is the best we have to take the minutes, far different from deserving them as an arrived #1 or 2 defenseman in current skill.

startainfection* 01-29-2013 04:31 PM

5 years 4.5 per

i honestly think he is better than subban and just a step below pietrangello, doughty, karlsson and some other dmen in his age group

startainfection* 01-29-2013 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceAce (Post 58610393)
I think Hamonic is that rare player that fans give credit to for being better than he actually he is. He's like the Bizarro Okposo.

Don't get me wrong, guy is a solid young player (although he's had some issues early on this season) and one day MAY be the player people want him to be, but some here are WAY over-inflating his current value. Too much confusion of potential for performance.

What has he really done at the NHL level thus far in his career? Not much you can't point to on a stat sheet to be making some of these comparisons that are going on here.




he is a career plus on a last place team where he has been given the responsibilities of a number one d-man since his rookie season, he averages .379 ppg which is good for a defensive minded dman and every season he has been here he has lead isles dmen in hits and plus/minus, showing that he doesn't only take the body often but he also is not overly aggresive so he is always in good defensive position


Quote:

Originally Posted by A Pointed Stick (Post 58610875)
You have some saying he is a first pair player right now. That's just not true and last game proved it because he was that bad. But, I agree with those saying he will be a first pair defenseman eventually. That is where this journey ends for him, and I look forward to it very much.

And for those who will be inclined to tell me to look at the minutes I preemptively tell them he is the best we have to take the minutes, far different from deserving them as an arrived #1 or 2 defenseman in current skill.



but look at what he has done with those minutes

ScaredStreit 01-29-2013 05:46 PM

PK is better than Hammer. Don't get me wrong I'm a Hammer fan. But PK is a franchise #1 defensemen and Hammer just isn't.

startainfection* 01-29-2013 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredStreit (Post 58615087)
PK is better than Hammer. Don't get me wrong I'm a Hammer fan. But PK is a franchise #1 defensemen and Hammer just isn't.

subban is mostly flash, he gives up chances to other players more often then hamonic and then when he gives up those chances he takes penalties all for that extra 10 points a season

StrongIslanders90 01-29-2013 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScaredStreit (Post 58615087)
PK is better than Hammer. Don't get me wrong I'm a Hammer fan. But PK is a franchise #1 defensemen and Hammer just isn't.

How many Franchise #1 dman get signed for only 2 years and under 3mil per in this day and age?

ScaredStreit 01-30-2013 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrongIslanders90 (Post 58617767)
How many Franchise #1 dman get signed for only 2 years and under 3mil per in this day and age?

How many franchise #1 centers sign a contract for under $6million these days?


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