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-   -   Penguins need another top 4 defenseman (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1336197)

Shockmaster 01-29-2013 12:12 PM

Penguins need another top 4 defenseman
 
I already know you're response:

"But they're so deep at that position! GIT A WINGAR!!!!!11!!!1!!one!!!11!!"

No, they have a bunch of prospects at that position. None of them are ready for top 4. Niskanen is a good #5, but you don't want him in your top 4 the entire season. And being that he is out for the next few weeks, the Pens really need another top 4 guy who can play with Letang.

Remember, the Penguins are a win now team. That means it's okay to trade away a little bit of the future if it helps your team right now. If the Penguins trade two or three defensive prospects for a guy who can play top 4 now, they'll still have a bunch of prospects in their system they can develop.

Luigi Lemieux 01-29-2013 12:13 PM

We could trade for Zbynek Michalek. He plays for the phoenix coyotes. I hear he's a good shot blocker and has a good first pass.

mpp9 01-29-2013 12:14 PM

Who's this top 4 D-man we can get who's an upgrade over Niskanen? We don't have the assets to acquire a top pairing guy IMO.

Shrimper 01-29-2013 12:15 PM

We have Orpik, Letang, Niskanen and Engelland are a fine top four.

We will probably have to replace Orpik with a top 4 player in a few years.

Shady Machine 01-29-2013 12:15 PM

I'd be open to it at the deadline but not right now. Nisky has done a heck of a job so far and will be a top 4 dman when he comes back. Now we have time to see Despres in a top 4 role and see if he can fill that role full time. Then Nisky comes back and he moves to a no. 5. Let's be patient.

Shady Machine 01-29-2013 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimper (Post 58598197)
We have Orpik, Letang, Niskanen and Engelland are a fine top four.

We will probably have to replace Orpik with a top 4 player in a few years.

Engel is not top 4 but Martin is. Engel can fill in when called upon.

Le Magnifique 66 01-29-2013 12:17 PM

Keith Yandle :naughty:

SidsBackhand 01-29-2013 12:17 PM

Depends on the severity of Niskanen's injury. We could definitely use an upgrade though. Maybe a more glaring need than a winger for Sid. I would value those needs around the same right now.

PensFanSince1989 01-29-2013 12:18 PM

The Michalek trade was such a dumb move and I wish someone from the press would really question Shero about it.

Le Magnifique 66 01-29-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 (Post 58598377)
The Michalek trade was such a dumb move and I wish someone from the press would really question Shero about it.

No one knows but what if Z asked to be traded and that he wanted to go back to Phoenix?

SidsBackhand 01-29-2013 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 (Post 58598377)
The Michalek trade was such a dumb move and I wish someone from the press would really question Shero about it.

I hate that too. I understand he has worked much magic as the GM here, but that shouldn't give him immunity from scrutiny. That move looks really, really bad now.

Shady Machine 01-29-2013 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 (Post 58598413)
No one knows but what if Z asked to be traded and that he wanted to go back to Phoenix?

I highly doubt that. If anything, it was mutual. We wanted to make a change and he was open to going back to Phoenix.

I think it was stupid but I really liked Michalek.

Le Magnifique 66 01-29-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shady Machine (Post 58598479)
I highly doubt that. If anything, it was mutual. We wanted to make a change and he was open to going back to Phoenix.

I think it was stupid but I really liked Michalek.

Same here, everyone wanted Martin gone out of the two but so far we can't really complain as Martin has finally turned is **** around and looking pretty good

But the Michalek trade was a gift to the Yotes, that's why i'm thinking he asked Shero if he could do him a favor and trade him there

Shockmaster 01-29-2013 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shady Machine (Post 58598205)
I'd be open to it at the deadline but not right now. Nisky has done a heck of a job so far and will be a top 4 dman when he comes back. Now we have time to see Despres in a top 4 role and see if he can fill that role full time. Then Nisky comes back and he moves to a no. 5. Let's be patient.

They need one before the deadline. Remember - win now. Save all this "future" stuff for the Pirates. Crosby and Malkin are in their primes, you don't waste entire seasons because you want to bring up a few defensemen.

And so what if they trade Despres? They have a bunch of guys just like him in their system. That's why it's okay to trade for another top 4 guy.

Quote:

We have Orpik, Letang, Niskanen and Engelland are a fine top four.

We will probably have to replace Orpik with a top 4 player in a few years.
Another problem with some Pens fans: they tend to overrate their own.

mpp9 01-29-2013 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 (Post 58598297)
Keith Yandle :naughty:

We don't have a spare top 6 center.

Til the End of Time 01-29-2013 12:26 PM

the top four is underwhelming.

i have been a skeptic of niskanen. was not as convinced by some where by his play last season. i have a hard time viewing him as a top four d-man on a legit contender. however, hes playing really well. if he keeps this play up, im convinced.

orpik and martin have similarly been good.

the worst top four d-man so far has been letang.

im not sure if these trends will continue, but for now i think the top four is ok. very questionable for the playoffs though.

Shockmaster 01-29-2013 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Til the End of Time (Post 58598747)
the top four is underwhelming.

i have been a skeptic of niskanen. was not as convinced by some where by his play last season. i have a hard time viewing him as a top four d-man on a legit contender. however, hes playing really well. if he keeps this play up, im convinced.

orpik and martin have similarly been good.

the worst top four d-man so far has been letang.

im not sure if these trends will continue, but for now i think the top four is ok. very questionable for the playoffs though.

Niskanen is okay in the top 4 for a little bit, but eventually they will need to find someone better to play beside Letang. Like I said, some Pens fans have a tendency to overrate their own.

Fire Shero* 01-29-2013 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 (Post 58598413)
No one knows but what if Z asked to be traded and that he wanted to go back to Phoenix?

Who cares where he wanted to go? You make the best deal possible for your team. Staal forced Shero to trade him, at least we received a top 10 pick and an NHL ready 3rd liner who was good before coming here.

That was a horrible trade, but I guess Shero assumed he would sign Parise and needed to make cap room. But you better be damn sure you are going to sign someone after making that Michalek donation.

The pens lack a #2 dman. Orpik is only getting worse each year. Paul Martin is a wildcard.

The pens need a top 4 dman and a top 6 winger. It's going to be difficult to acquire either with the assets, or lack thereof, we have right now.

mpp9 01-29-2013 12:29 PM

We need secondary scoring more. Matt Niskanen is a top 4 guy. Having Tanner Glass on Geno's LW and glorified grinders with Sid should be on Shero's mind first and foremost.

Orpik and Martin have played like a true top pairing. Don't touch it. Letang has been our worst top 4 D so far this year. We're fine.

Add a vet to the bottom pairing if you wish. But I don't see the need there either.

TorstenFrings 01-29-2013 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockmaster (Post 58598597)
Another problem with some Pens fans: they tend to overrate their own.

Which is a fine statement, when you honestly do believe that Despres+ will get us a very good top pairing Dman to go with Letang. I don`t and think all this talk about Murray, Ballard or Leopold is just overrating whatever is not their own.

Captain Hook 01-29-2013 12:33 PM

I don't think the defense has been the problem. It's been the sloppy play and Crosby/Malkin/Kunitz off to relatively slow starts.

I'm kind of glad Michalek and his 4 million cap hit for the next 2+ years are gone. I thought he was underwhelming here for the money he makes.

SidsBackhand 01-29-2013 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpp9 (Post 58598905)
We need secondary scoring more. Matt Niskanen is a top 4 guy. Having Tanner Glass on Geno's LW and glorified grinders with Sid should be Shero's first and foremost.

Kunitz and Dupuis are proven, they had no TC. That doesn't mean they're "glorified grinders". I agree that the Pens need SOMEONE though. Tanner Glass with Malkin? Really, that's Bylsma's plan?

That's like putting a leopard print steering wheel cover on a Ferrari.

Fire Shero* 01-29-2013 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SidsBackhand (Post 58598423)
I hate that too. I understand he has worked much magic as the GM here, but that shouldn't give him immunity from scrutiny. That move looks really, really bad now.

To me Ray Shero is the definition of overrated. He came to a team loaded with young talent. Letang was drafted, fleury, Crosby, Malkin and other pieces like Malone, Whitney, Armstrong, goligosk, etc were some key pieces in the Hossa, Kunitz and Neal trades. People act like he is some fantastic GM because the pens won the cup while he happened to be GM. It's not like he took over the Columbus Blue jackets from last year. The talent was here, it just needed a few years to develop.

Le Magnifique 66 01-29-2013 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Wingers (Post 58598845)
Who cares where he wanted to go? You make the best deal possible for your team. Staal forced Shero to trade him, at least we received a top 10 pick and an NHL ready 3rd liner who was good before coming here.

That was a horrible trade, but I guess Shero assumed he would sign Parise and needed to make cap room. But you better be damn sure you are going to sign someone after making that Michalek donation.

The pens lack a #2 dman. Orpik is only getting worse each year. Paul Martin is a wildcard.

The pens need a top 4 dman and a top 6 winger. It's going to be difficult to acquire either with the assets, or lack thereof, we have right now.

But was that the best deal available? How do you know? So you make Staal happy but not Michalek if he asked for a move back to a specific team?

And Shero's plan we knew it all along he was going after both Parise and Suter, it failed but he tried and he tried hard.

Shady Machine 01-29-2013 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shockmaster (Post 58598597)
They need one before the deadline. Remember - win now. Save all this "future" stuff for the Pirates. Crosby and Malkin are in their primes, you don't waste entire seasons because you want to bring up a few defensemen.

And so what if they trade Despres? They have a bunch of guys just like him in their system. That's why it's okay to trade for another top 4 guy.



Another problem with some Pens fans: they tend to overrate their own.

What are you talking about? We can win in the regular season with what we have so we should do that. Giving Despres time in the NHL will only up his trade value later in the season.


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