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WarriorofTime 01-29-2013 04:20 PM

NYR + LA 2013 Firsts
 
What position in the draft do you think Columbus could move up to with the Rangers and Kings 1st round picks if they wanted to?

Vankiller Whale 01-29-2013 04:22 PM

I don't think it's possible to move up from both 1st and 2nd overall...

Jokes

Pierce Hawthorne 01-29-2013 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorofTime (Post 58610977)
What position in the draft do you think Columbus could move up to with the Rangers and Kings 1st round picks if they wanted to?

I think the Rangers pick will end up being 26-30, confident about that.

However the Kings pick could be anywhere at this point. They haven't looked great this year, and in a shortened season it only takes one really bad streak to be way out of it. Even if the Kings make the playoffs I don't think they reach the West Finals this year.

So I'll say Kings pick is 21 Overall, and NYR is 29th overall. Given how deep this draft is, I think you might find a few teams in the 10-15 range who would move down from where they are to get those two picks. I mean with the 10-15th your giving up a guy like Darnell Nurse or Max Domi who are both very good prospects, but with the 21st and 29th you could also get say Curtis Lazar and Morgan Klimchuck.

I think this year there will be more teams willing to trade down, then there will be teams looking to trade up, because from about the 10th-12th range in this draft right up to probably around 35th-40th the talent is pretty close. I can remember reading that there are something like 48 1st round talents in this draft according to one scout. That's some impressive depth.

bobafettish* 01-29-2013 04:30 PM

so the almigthy rangers who are 2-3 and could have been 1-4 is gurranteed to be 26-30 but the kings could be anywhere, right........

Djp 01-29-2013 04:49 PM

Assume columbus is in the top 5....

Rangers...;ole;y a playoff team so the pick would be in the 20s.

Kings could also be in the 20s but if they miss the playoffs they could be around 12-14. The Kings are in a Cup slump which is common. With a shortened season will they be able to rebound soon enough to make the playoffs---that is a fair question.

For the sake of argument lets say LA is aroun 18 and Rangers are around 26.

This is a deep draft so do you even want to move up?

You likely could find a team who had an off year this season who would trade their 8-12 pick for both LA and Rangers pick.

With the lottery system now they have a chance to go #1 and #2.

Pierce Hawthorne 01-29-2013 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 58611539)
so the almigthy rangers who are 2-3 and could have been 1-4 is gurranteed to be 26-30 but the kings could be anywhere, right........

Rangers roster is a lot more talented. They made the conference finals last year and rightfully so.

I wont say the Kings didn't deserve to win the cup, they played fantastic in the playoffs. But I don't think they were the best team in the West last year. They got real hot at the right time and it paid off bit time. I don't expect them to repeat this year, like I said.

And believe me, I would be 100% ok with being wrong. Kings are actually one of my favorite teams. Huge fan of Kopitar and Quick.

KingCanadain1976 01-29-2013 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avsare1 (Post 58612779)
Rangers roster is a lot more talented. They made the conference finals last year and rightfully so.

I wont say the Kings didn't deserve to win the cup, they played fantastic in the playoffs. But I don't think they were the best team in the West last year. They got real hot at the right time and it paid off bit time. I don't expect them to repeat this year, like I said.

And believe me, I would be 100% ok with being wrong. Kings are actually one of my favorite teams. Huge fan of Kopitar and Quick.

kings right now sit 8th in the west and rangers sit 9th in the east and its the kings that are struggling This makes no sence. I agree the rangers have a talented lineup but your serverly underestimating the kings. Ill put our top 6 against anyone. Only reason ur lineup is is if u think offensive power is better then a defensive game. I ll take the stronger defense every time.

blankall 01-29-2013 05:13 PM

No way to predict this until you know exactly who finishes where. The value of a first round pick varries considerably depending on when it is. Pics in the 25-30 range hold a fraction of the value top 5 picks go for. A 25-30 pick has more or less the same value as Columbus's 2nd overall. Two of them together won't get you a top 5 pick, and maybe not even top 10, depending on how deep the draft is.

dwanmaster* 01-29-2013 05:23 PM

Dang if Columbus drafts in the top 5 they could get 4 Really good players.

Muzzinga 01-29-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avsare1 (Post 58612779)
Rangers roster is a lot more talented. They made the conference finals last year and rightfully so.

I wont say the Kings didn't deserve to win the cup, they played fantastic in the playoffs. But I don't think they were the best team in the West last year. They got real hot at the right time and it paid off bit time. I don't expect them to repeat this year, like I said.

And believe me, I would be 100% ok with being wrong. Kings are actually one of my favorite teams. Huge fan of Kopitar and Quick.

The rangers suck though. They massively overachieved all of last year. Like i've been saying all off season, I'd be amazed if they are a 1-4 seed, and i don't expect them to make the 2nd round

Trafalgar McLaw 01-29-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwanmaster (Post 58613913)
Dang if Columbus drafts in the top 5 they could get 4 Really good players.

It's Columbus, they'll find a way to ruin at least 2 of them.

Monarchist 01-29-2013 09:05 PM

This is from the NFL but is approximately correct for the NHL. The decline in value from pick to pick is greater in the NHL. In the NFL, players use draft position as leverage in contract negotiations, and aren't paid a basically fixed amount on an entry level contract.

Obviously it doesn't take into account the specific players in the draft year, such as the difference between Ovechkin and Malkin and that between Malkin and BarkerLadd/etc..

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

tsujimoto74 01-29-2013 09:33 PM

People on this board seem to really overestimate what it actually costs to move up in the draft. For instance, the difference between 12 and 21 last year was a mid-2nd. If we assume both of those picks are somewhere between 15-30, the question really is just whether there's a team in the top 10 that would rather have 2 assets than one (maybe someone who's missing a 2nd rounder) or whose guy is gone by their pick. Because that is enough to get there for sure.

Kershaw 01-29-2013 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sw1tch (Post 58623751)
The rangers suck though. They massively overachieved all of last year. Like i've been saying all off season, I'd be amazed if they are a 1-4 seed, and i don't expect them to make the 2nd round

I don't see how they overachieved. Their fenwick was near middle of the pack, but the goalie is the big part of the system.

Monument 01-29-2013 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sw1tch (Post 58623751)
The rangers suck though. They massively overachieved all of last year. Like i've been saying all off season, I'd be amazed if they are a 1-4 seed, and i don't expect them to make the 2nd round

As a fan of both the Rangers and Kings, you couldn't be more wrong.

Start watching the Rangers a little more and don't let a 3-3 start fool you.

dan1el 01-29-2013 09:55 PM

They probably both end up low-mid twenties IMO, so they could be paired up and shipped for a 10-13 i think. I'd hold onto them though, this draft is gonna be really deep.

bobafettish* 01-29-2013 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist (Post 58652971)
As a fan of both the Rangers and Kings, you couldn't be more wrong.

Start watching the Rangers a little more and don't let a 3-3 start fool you.

ive watched all and only game they looked good was the toronto game.

SI90 01-29-2013 10:11 PM

deep draft... keep your 3 first and speed up the rebuild....unless you can reach for a player you feel is way up on your board

CBJFan19* 01-29-2013 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 (Post 58651211)
People on this board seem to really overestimate what it actually costs to move up in the draft. For instance, the difference between 12 and 21 last year was a mid-2nd. If we assume both of those picks are somewhere between 15-30, the question really is just whether there's a team in the top 10 that would rather have 2 assets than one (maybe someone who's missing a 2nd rounder) or whose guy is gone by their pick. Because that is enough to get there for sure.

yeah but the Islanders offered their whole draft to move up 1 spot last year

CBJFan19* 01-29-2013 10:37 PM

i think you're more likley to see a package for one of those picks and columbus 2nd to move up then both picks, i think they also get at least 1 more first rounder maybe 2 in trades with pieces like Umberger and Brassard for teams looking for an extra umph that are contending but missing a offensive top 9 piece

DoubleDose86 01-29-2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnoctophas (Post 58640459)
It's Columbus, they'll find a way to ruin at least 2 of them.

NHL gods will get together to hurt them, Kings vs Rangers Stanley Cup

Viqsi 01-30-2013 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magnoctophas (Post 58640459)
It's Columbus, they'll find a way to ruin at least 2 of them.

2007 called; they want their condescending bull**** back.

* * *
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleDose86 (Post 58659403)
NHL gods will get together to hurt them, Kings vs Rangers Stanley Cup

This is, of course, inevitable. After all, similar madness was the sole basis on which anybody predicted LA winning the Cup last year at the start of the playoffs.

Frankly, I don't think we're likely to trade up at all. Don't see much point.

Monument 01-30-2013 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 58654643)
ive watched all and only game they looked good was the toronto game.

They looked good Tonight and against Toronto and Boston the 2nd time.

Mainly, that post is directed at him calling them "overachievers" last year. Overachievers don't finish 1st in the conference. That's definitely not the case.

Not only that, but new season with a whole bunch of new faces and no training camp with a team whose coach is NOTORIOUS for running the toughest training camps in the NHL.

Worry about your team before you worry about the Rangers. We'll be fine as long as this Callahan injury isn't too severe and he's effective.

-DeMo- 01-30-2013 01:24 AM

the only reason for CLB to move up in the draft would be if they finished 3rd-5th overall, they might pair one of those picks to get into a position to draft Jones/Mackinnon, tho not sure why a team with 1st or 2nd overall would trade down.

CandianKingsFan14 01-30-2013 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avsare1 (Post 58611417)
I think the Rangers pick will end up being 26-30, confident about that.

However the Kings pick could be anywhere at this point. They haven't looked great this year, and in a shortened season it only takes one really bad streak to be way out of it. Even if the Kings make the playoffs I don't think they reach the West Finals this year.

So I'll say Kings pick is 21 Overall, and NYR is 29th overall. Given how deep this draft is, I think you might find a few teams in the 10-15 range who would move down from where they are to get those two picks. I mean with the 10-15th your giving up a guy like Darnell Nurse or Max Domi who are both very good prospects, but with the 21st and 29th you could also get say Curtis Lazar and Morgan Klimchuck.

I think this year there will be more teams willing to trade down, then there will be teams looking to trade up, because from about the 10th-12th range in this draft right up to probably around 35th-40th the talent is pretty close. I can remember reading that there are something like 48 1st round talents in this draft according to one scout. That's some impressive depth.

So far the Rangers havent been impressive either!!!


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