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-   -   Value of: Marcel Goc to Chicago (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1336933)

Cullksinikers 01-30-2013 09:12 AM

Marcel Goc to Chicago
 
We need a good center for the third line.

It's early, but I am starting to think the Panthers will be sellers at the TD. With that said, what would Dale be looking for? He and Bowman have much history when it comes to trades.

Cullksinikers 01-30-2013 09:14 AM

For some reason, I completely missed a trade proposal with a Goc-to-Chicago deal below. However, I'd rather pursue a different backup goaltender than Clemmensen. For just Goc, what would it take?

Coolburn 01-30-2013 09:43 AM

I'm sure most Blackhawks fans won't agree or feel its a fair return for Goc but I dont see the need for the Panthers to move him either. He's cheap enough for them to keep as their 3rd line center who can move up to 2nd line when needed. He's not a rental either since he's signed thru next yr. He wins faceoffs consistently better than 50% and is a great asset on the PK. So based on last yr's trade deadline, the basis of the deal would be (maybe something else added from the Panthers but only minor):

Goc

for

Chicago's 1st rounder in 2013

If Paul Gaustad can return a 1st rounder at the deadline, so can Goc, especially the fact that its gonna be a pick in the 25-30 range most likely (figuring the Hawks win their division, thats at least where the Panthers picked last yr at #23 and I figure on them being better than that). I would've tried to do something where it was a 2nd rounder + something else but the Hawks dont have a 2nd rounder in this draft.

Blad Meaning Gud 01-30-2013 10:05 AM

Goc is very underrated, it'd take a first IMO

krazyhawk 01-30-2013 10:11 AM

A 1st is too much for Goc.Don't need him that badly.A 3rd +2nd tier prospect sounds about right to me.

DT0X 01-30-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cullksinikers (Post 58669683)
We need a good center for the third line.

It's early, but I am starting to think the Panthers will be sellers at the TD. With that said, what would Dale be looking for? He and Bowman have much history when it comes to trades.

I don't think Tallon will be selling the team he just built a season ago. Goc is primary cog in the PK for that club & seems to be a good fit. But I see why he seems to be a pretty good score if you land him in a trade.

DKQ 01-30-2013 11:42 AM

Goc is probably one of the only players I'd say who could step into Bolland's former role and have the same amount of success. I think a first is easily what it would take for Tallon to move him, and the only reason he would be able to is dependent on the progression of Drew Shore

yakitate304 01-30-2013 12:59 PM

Goc may be the most underrated player in the league. He is arguably (based on watching, and statistics) the best center in the league when it comes to being a defensive zone start specialist, and his offensive production is pretty good for a guy who gets so little power play time. The typical Goc shift is one where he takes (and wins) a faceoff in the defensive zone, and where his team has more shots than the opposition despite the fact that the shift starts in his end. It's a pretty remarkable set of stats that you read here: http://thehockeywriters.com/overtime...oc-underrated/

He wouldn't fetch a 1st because he's not that well known of an entity, but I reckon he'd be worth a playoff team's 1st rounder.

Djp 01-30-2013 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coolburn (Post 58670621)
If Paul Gaustad can return a 1st rounder at the deadline, so can Goc, especially the fact that its gonna be a pick in the 25-30 range most likely (figuring the Hawks win their division, thats at least where the Panthers picked last yr at #23 and I figure on them being better than that). I would've tried to do something where it was a 2nd rounder + something else but the Hawks dont have a 2nd rounder in this draft.

Goc wont retun anywhere near that.

Buffalo had to also give up a 4th on that deal. A lower third of the first for a high third of the 4th for Gaustead. It was also known last year 2013 is deeper so the first round picks are worth a ton more and will be gaurded.

Gaustead also is one of the best at faceoffs and penalty killing in the league.

A bidding war increases his playoff value given he was a UFA after last season.

i would not count on the Panthers being higher than 20...easily could be around 13-15.

WTFetus 01-30-2013 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazyhawk (Post 58671563)
A 1st is too much for Goc.Don't need him that badly.A 3rd +2nd tier prospect sounds about right to me.

Absolutely reason for Florida to do that.
Goc is easily one of the most underrated defensive forwards in the league.

Bubba88 01-30-2013 02:23 PM

Goc is not worth a 1st...

if anything it would be something like Pirri or Olsen + a 3rd/4th 2014

DKQ 01-30-2013 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba88 (Post 58684017)
Goc is not worth a 1st...

if anything it would be something like Pirri or Olsen + a 3rd/4th 2014

Why not? He's one of the league's premier defensive centers. Florida has no reason to trade him for marginal prospects and a mid-round pick.

JuniorNelson 01-30-2013 02:37 PM

Vancouver has been trying to force a trade with Florida for months. The Canucks have desperate need at center. If Goc were remotely available, he'd be gone by now.

WTFetus 01-30-2013 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba88 (Post 58684017)
Goc is not worth a 1st...

if anything it would be something like Pirri or Olsen + a 3rd/4th 2014

Gaustad was able to get a 1st at the TDL, don't see why Goc wouldn't get at least that. Especially considering he wouldn't be a rental and he's better defensively.

Panthers are Red 01-30-2013 03:00 PM

Goc is one of the few players I would really like to see the Panthers keep hold of. I don't think what other teams determine his trade value to be will ever be equivalent of what he brings to the team.

Zippy316 01-30-2013 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuniorNelson (Post 58684725)
Vancouver has been trying to force a trade with Florida for months. The Canucks have desperate need at center. If Goc were remotely available, he'd be gone by now.

Or maybe they have no interest dealing Goc for Luongo?

Vaasa 01-30-2013 03:09 PM

I look at threads like this and smile, thinking about how so many of fellow Sharks fans used to call Goc "worthless" and "a borderline NHL player at best". Some of knew he was much better than the opportunities he was getting in SJ, and I'm happy to see others recognizing what a solid player he is.

I don't watch Florida games, does he still occasionally pull out those amazing stick-handling moves along the boards? He used to occasionally show that he really could "stick handle in a phone booth" when he wanted to. :)

Djp 01-30-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTFetus (Post 58685753)
Gaustad was able to get a 1st at the TDL, don't see why Goc wouldn't get at least that. Especially considering he wouldn't be a rental and he's better defensively.

No he is not....

Gaustead is better, plus a good penalty killer, plus one of the best at faceoffs in the game.

2013 draft is deep than what was in 2012. a team will not be trading a #1 for a role/marginal player.

The other big issue with him is that he isnt a rental player. Were he a UFA after the season and florida was out hed be a tradeable player for something---not a #1.

Coolburn 01-30-2013 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djp (Post 58683095)
Goc wont retun anywhere near that.

Buffalo had to also give up a 4th on that deal. A lower third of the first for a high third of the 4th for Gaustead. It was also known last year 2013 is deeper so the first round picks are worth a ton more and will be gaurded.

Gaustead also is one of the best at faceoffs and penalty killing in the league.

A bidding war increases his playoff value given he was a UFA after last season.

i would not count on the Panthers being higher than 20...easily could be around 13-15.

The way the Hawks are playing right now its going to be a 1st in the last 1/6th of the round. I wasnt referring to the Panthers pick BTW when I said 25-30 (just pointing out where they picked last yr which was #23), I was referring to where the Hawks pick will be after this season. Right now, the best the Hawks would be picking is #28 and if they made it to the Cup finals, it would be either 29 or 30. That pick isnt going to be guarded that much when you think about where it is.

I said in the original statement that something minor could go back from the Panthers as well, just like Buffalo did with the 4th rounder (keep in mind that was a 4th in a future yr, not the current draft). If thats all it takes, a 4th in 2014 added from the Panthers is fine. I just thought the Hawks may want a prospect thats possibly more developed.

Goc is a strong faceoff guy too who has proven to be good on the PK and defensively overall. Plus he's shown glimpses last yr that he can add a good amount on offense too. Gaustad was a rental like you said and Goc would not be, so that has to add to his value. Not to mention, his cap hit is extremely reasonable too (lower than what Gaustad's was at the time of his trade). And Goc is over a yr younger as well. So where in all of those factors does that make Goc worth less than Gaustad?

Keep in mind, I wouldnt blame any Hawks fan for not wanting to do that deal. But to convince Tallon to trade Goc, I just dont see it happening unless they are getting that level of value in return.

WTFetus 01-30-2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djp (Post 58687911)
No he is not....

Gaustead is better, plus a good penalty killer, plus one of the best at faceoffs in the game.
.

Better PKer maybe, but definitely not 5 on 5. Goc consistently faces the other team's top lines and still comes out with a positive Corsi despite getting less than 40% offensive zone starts. Gaustad hasn't faced top competition in Buffalo (Pominville's line did) or last season in Nashville (Fisher's line).

preds1 01-30-2013 03:57 PM

Goc is better than Goose in all areas but face-offs. (at least when he was with NSH)
A 1st isn't unrealistic, but only if upgrading the 3C is that important to the Hawks.

Patty Ice 01-30-2013 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazyhawk (Post 58671563)
A 3rd +2nd tier prospect sounds about right to me.

Cool but it's a Hawks fan wanting him not the Cats looking to deal him. In a vacuum, Goc should net at least a 2nd. However, they don't need to move him and if a team is asking for him that price goes up.

Laus723 01-30-2013 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djp (Post 58687911)
No he is not....

Gaustead is better, plus a good penalty killer, plus one of the best at faceoffs in the game.

2013 draft is deep than what was in 2012. a team will not be trading a #1 for a role/marginal player.

The other big issue with him is that he isnt a rental player. Were he a UFA after the season and florida was out hed be a tradeable player for something---not a #1.

There's nothing marginal about Goc.

Hawkaholic 01-30-2013 05:45 PM

If it costs anything more than a 2nd and a middling prospect, I'm out. No 1st, or any of our top prospects.

Bubba88 01-30-2013 08:27 PM

yep, Goc just isn't worth a 1st or one of out Top prospects


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