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-   -   Flyers-Oilers proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=13371)

FacelessButcher 09-22-2003 01:35 PM

Flyers-Oilers proposal
 
posted by gags1288:
To Flyers:
Comrie

To Oilers:
Handzus
Jim Vandermeer

Oil gets a big talented centre with a decent goal scoring touch and Vandermeer depth d plus potential 4th d-man in the future. Philly get talented 2nd line center with goal scoring touch.
Is it fair?

Cerebral 09-22-2003 02:15 PM

As an Oilers fan, this deal really hangs on how well Smyth plays at the center position this pre-season. He has looked decent so far (pretty good in the faceoff circle though ;) ) and this might make the deal more feasible. If Smyth can anchor the Oilers top line, a centerman like Handzus would make sense on the second line and Comrie would be deemed much more replaceable. However, if Smyth flops, I see the Oilers passing on this deal. I still think they're ideally looking for a top-4 d-man or a more offensive centerman (a la Legwand, Marleau)..

Dr Love 09-22-2003 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurupt
That's not a bad trade to me , but where would Comrie fit in on the Flyers ? I guess Primeau would be the 3rd line center and Comrie 2nd ? Imagine Comrie with Gagne and Williams . :bow:

He would take the place of Handzus as the second line center between Gagne and Williams.

TheBrew 09-22-2003 02:21 PM

IMO i think Handzus is way to slow to play for the Oil

FacelessButcher 09-22-2003 02:27 PM

I read tsn's report on him and they also stated he was slow, knowing that the Oilers are always known for having fast skaters that is an area of great concern for me. I think one of the main reasons why the Dopita experiment did not work out was because he could not keep up.

Chayos 09-22-2003 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
posted by gags1288:
To Flyers:
Comrie

To Oilers:
Handzus
Jim Vandermeer

Oil gets a big talented centre with a decent goal scoring touch and Vandermeer depth d plus potential 4th d-man in the future. Philly get talented 2nd line center with goal scoring touch.
Is it fair?

How about Comrie and Smith for Pikanen and Williams. We get a Top rated D-man to fill in our D for years to come and a forwards to replace comrie. Philly gets a solid D-man to round out their top 4 and a 2nd line center for years to come.

Vyse64 09-22-2003 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chayos1
How about Comrie and Smith for Pikanen and Williams. We get a Top rated D-man to fill in our D for years to come and a forwards to replace comrie. Philly gets a solid D-man to round out their top 4 and a 2nd line center for years to come.

you should have stop at "for" and should have never said the P word in front of flyers fans

Oilhitch 09-22-2003 02:42 PM

I cant see lowe being interseted in Handzus. He's 3 years older than Comrie and Comrie is producing more points. Handzus' best season has 53 points. He is a bit slow and from what i've heard he is not that physical despise being 6-5 217lbs.

Gags1288 09-22-2003 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chayos1
How about Comrie and Smith for Pikanen and Williams. We get a Top rated D-man to fill in our D for years to come and a forwards to replace comrie. Philly gets a solid D-man to round out their top 4 and a 2nd line center for years to come.

How about no. The flyers are trying to get younger and they are also trying to build a more mobile defense. In my mind, Comrie and Williams have pretty similar value. Before you jump on me, let me defend that. Williams is much better defensively, a great forechecker, great heart, albeit less talented(he is also younger, but that doesn't mean much since they are both so young). Williams is the Flyers spark plug, imo. He'll make any play and take any hit, he's just a fearless player. Also, if the Flyers were to add Comrie, they'd have to deal a center, i.e. Handzus. Pitkanen is untouchable. That's all I can say. He has all the tools and Hitchock already compared him to Coffey (where as Roenick said he plays a lot like Lidstrom) and said that when he matures, he'll be truely special. He's here to stay.

Oilhitch 09-22-2003 02:49 PM

I would love to see Gagne in an Oilers jersey. Don't know how he will be after injuries last year. Doubt Phiily would part with him. I know Lowe has been interested in getting him in the past. However with a 2.1M contract he is already overpriced for the Oil and don't need ony more wingers.

Chayos 09-22-2003 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemskyFreak83
you should have stop at "for" and should have never said the P word in front of flyers fans


Hey you have to ask for the Moon or you will niver get it right! :)

I can understand their point after all he will be a great D-man in the future.

FacelessButcher 09-22-2003 02:54 PM

hmm Williams would definitely provide the speed and size we are looking for can he play any other position then rw? hemsky and dvorak are kind of locks for 1,2line rw and he would not provide enough value on third line
counter proposal
TO Philly:
Comrie
3rd pick

To Oilers:
Justin Williams
Jim Vandermeer

I think Comrie is slighlty better than Williams and Vandermeer slighlty better than third pick(have not seen him play opinion based on player bios)

Gibsons Finest 09-22-2003 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chayos1
How about Comrie and Smith for Pikanen and Williams. We get a Top rated D-man to fill in our D for years to come and a forwards to replace comrie. Philly gets a solid D-man to round out their top 4 and a 2nd line center for years to come.

Woywitka would make the deal more acceptable. To get Pitaken, they would need Ferguson in there somewhere.

Cerebral 09-22-2003 02:59 PM

The last thing the Oilers need is another winger.. they're not going to trade away one of their few NHL calibre centermen for another winger. If anything, any trade the Oilers make should also look to make some room for their plethora of wingers (Chimera, Rita, Torres) that need more ice time. Though Williams would look great in an Oiler uniform, the Oilers would only be depleting a weak point and adding more to a strong point!

PigPen 09-22-2003 03:00 PM

Handzus isn't overly physical but he doesn't shy away from contact. Good on faceoffs, excellelent defensively. (People forget he was nominated for a selke before)
He reminds me of a less-nasty version of Joel Otto.

I think he'd do just fine in Edmonton's system.

The first deal would probably work out best as the Oil get themselves a defenseman as well as a player they could easily put on their 1st or 2nd line and would become a favorite of MacT.

Kritty 09-22-2003 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
hmm Williams would definitely provide the speed and size we are looking for can he play any other position then rw? hemsky and dvorak are kind of locks for 1,2line rw and he would not provide enough value on third line
counter proposal
TO Philly:
Comrie
3rd pick

To Oilers:
Justin Williams
Jim Vandermeer

I think Comrie is slighlty better than Williams and Vandermeer slighlty better than third pick(have not seen him play opinion based on player bios)

Value-wise it may work but I don't see why the Oilers make this deal. Yes they get a dman that they could definitely use, and they get a nice winger in Williams, but that still leaves a whole at centre. If Smyth stays at centre, that leaves no 2nd line centre, and if Smyth goes back to the wing that leaves Marty Reasoner as the top centre. I suppose York could be moved to centre if need be. I think any trade involving Comrie will have to see a centre moved to the Oilers as a part of the deal.

Dr.HelmutKohl 09-22-2003 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
hmm Williams would definitely provide the speed and size we are looking for can he play any other position then rw? hemsky and dvorak are kind of locks for 1,2line rw and he would not provide enough value on third line
counter proposal
TO Philly:
Comrie
3rd pick

To Oilers:
Justin Williams
Jim Vandermeer

I think Comrie is slighlty better than Williams and Vandermeer slighlty better than third pick(have not seen him play opinion based on player bios)

Make it a second rounder and you have a fair deal value-wise IMO. Why a second rounder? Well, Vandermeer has already proved that he can play at NHL level, at least youll get a young, cheap, big stay-at-home defender, while draftpicks are always a gamble.

I still wouldnt do this trade since I like Williams a lot, but i think it was fair value-wise...

FacelessButcher 09-22-2003 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducksflytogether
Woywitka would make the deal more acceptable. To get Pitaken, they would need Ferguson in there somewhere.

Two good defensive prospects I very much doubt Philly would accept it aside from trading Brewer(not going to do) or half our top line(not going to do) for Pitkanen. The Flyers r just not of interest for any moves concerning moving him plz do not mention him it just gets them riled up and Ferguson is just a slap in the face when losing his talent.

FacelessButcher 09-22-2003 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kritty
Value-wise it may work but I don't see why the Oilers make this deal. Yes they get a dman that they could definitely use, and they get a nice winger in Williams, but that still leaves a whole at centre. If Smyth stays at centre, that leaves no 2nd line centre, and if Smyth goes back to the wing that leaves Marty Reasoner as the top centre. I suppose York could be moved to centre if need be. I think any trade involving Comrie will have to see a centre moved to the Oilers as a part of the deal.

Although no one answered my question I take it Williams can play no other position then rw based on replys.So based on comments I will make these assumptions.
Handzus too slow to play for Oil
Primeau to expensive
Roenick to expensive and nothing to trade of equal value
4th line and depth centers r inadequate replacements for Comrie

so unless someone comes up with a good counter proposal I can't see anything working between the two teams

P.S.How is Chouinard?

Gags1288 09-22-2003 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Although no one answered my question I take it Williams can play no other position then rw based on replys.So based on comments I will make these assumptions.
Handzus too slow to play for Oil
Primeau to expensive
Roenick to expensive and nothing to trade of equal value
4th line and depth centers r inadequate replacements for Comrie

so unless someone comes up with a good counter proposal I can't see anything working between the two teams

P.S.How is Chouinard?

First of all, Handzus is not too slow to play in Edmonton. He is a pretty good skater and is currently playing on a line with Gagne and Williams, so I think he could keep up with Edmonton's team. As for Chouinard, he is showing a lot of talent, but he is still developing. He has also become a winger, not a center like he played in juniors

andora 09-22-2003 04:03 PM

i'll be kevin lowe..

"done"

IronMarshal 09-22-2003 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
posted by gags1288:
To Flyers:
Comrie

To Oilers:
Handzus
Jim Vandermeer

Oil gets a big talented centre with a decent goal scoring touch and Vandermeer depth d plus potential 4th d-man in the future. Philly get talented 2nd line center with goal scoring touch.
Is it fair?

This trade makes no sense for one reason, the Flyers have nothing to gain by it. They dump a pretty good young defenseman who gives them toughness that nobody else on their blueline brings. Additionally, How much of an upgrade is Comrie over Handzus, if any at all? Handzus scores, passes, wins faceoffs, kills penalties and is an excellent defensively responsible center who absolutely fits into Hitchcock's system like a glove.
So essentially the Flyers gamble Vandermeer in the hope that Comrie will be an OVERALL improvement over Handzus?
Another thing to remember is that the Flyers have drafted two young, talented OFFENSIVE centers in the first round this year. In two to three years they expect them to be better than Comrie. Now admittedly, seeing is believeing and draft picks don't always work out, but you know the Flyers are banking on it.

On the surface the trade may not look bad, but big picture wise it does not work.

Chayos 09-22-2003 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
Two good defensive prospects I very much doubt Philly would accept it aside from trading Brewer(not going to do) or half our top line(not going to do) for Pitkanen. The Flyers r just not of interest for any moves concerning moving him plz do not mention him it just gets them riled up and Ferguson is just a slap in the face when losing his talent.

Oh well then lets start some new threads then with proposals all centered around Pitkanen. I am bored right now so lets see how bad it can get. Keep in mind it must be at least a viable proposal,


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