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Resurrection 01-30-2013 02:13 PM

I like and support our captain.
 
Just thought a thread was needed to praise our captain. Ladd is doing exactly what he did last season points wise and is a solid leader and player. This isn't a leave Britney alone post, it's simply a pro Ladd post.

Oh and Go Jets Go

Basalt13 01-30-2013 02:16 PM

Ladd scares me every time he touches the puck, never seen anyone give it up so easily and frequently as he does. :fence:

JustGivingEr 01-30-2013 02:17 PM

I like Ladd but this makes me laugh every time and it's pretty accurate.

http://i.imgur.com/GMYD0.png

tntkid 01-30-2013 02:22 PM

Ladd is a good captain & has great experience with his 2 Stanley cups.

He always comes through with important goals at the right time.
He has really good hands in front of the net when it comes to tip ins.

YWGinYYZ 01-30-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basalt13 (Post 58686809)
Ladd scares me every time he touches the puck, never seen anyone give it up so easily and frequently as he does. :fence:

<<< There's an imposter in our midst. :sarcasm: :D

For the record, I like Ladd, and think he's an excellent captain. If I have a problem with him, it's related to the diddling around he does at the opposing blueline from time to time - just dump it in if you're going to dump it in.

Zhamnov10 01-30-2013 03:46 PM

I too like Ladd but he is a 3rd liner on most teams or a second liner matched with guys who carry the puck and control the pace,Ladd's abilities are limited he needs to be the crash and bang guy on a line and chip in with timely goals we are asking way to much of him.Claude Noel at a function jokingly called Ladd the "Drill Killer" because every time they do a drill in practice Ladd either mentally screws up a drill or he fumbles the puck making everyone have to start over.i think within a year or two Ladd will be on the 3rd line.

Resurrection 01-30-2013 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhamnov10 (Post 58691501)
I too like Ladd but he is a 3rd liner on most teams or a second liner matched with guys who carry the puck and control the pace,Ladd's abilities are limited he needs to be the crash and bang guy on a line and chip in with timely goals we are asking way to much of him.Claude Noel at a function jokingly called Ladd the "Drill Killer" because every time they do a drill in practice Ladd either mentally screws up a drill or he fumbles the puck making everyone have to start over.i think within a year or two Ladd will be on the 3rd line.


How many teams have 30 goal scorers on their 3rd line?

allan5oh 01-30-2013 04:00 PM

Sometimes he has soft hands, other times he lives up to the nickname ive given him "lead hand Ladd". Nothing worse than your captain going to the net to receive a pass with his stick in the air.

Grind 01-30-2013 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhamnov10;58691501[B
]I too like Ladd but he is a 3rd liner on most teams or a second liner matched with guys who carry the puck and control the pace,Ladd's abilities are limited he needs to be the crash and bang guy on a line and chip in with [/B]timely goals we are asking way to much of him.Claude Noel at a function jokingly called Ladd the "Drill Killer" because every time they do a drill in practice Ladd either mentally screws up a drill or he fumbles the puck making everyone have to start over.i think within a year or two Ladd will be on the 3rd line.

So in otherwords, within a year or two we should have 6 players capable of putting up 28+ goals in a season?

Do you have any idea how highly unrealistic that is?

this idea that ladd is not a top 6 player, or only complementary on the second line is ridiculous.

Ladd is a complementary second liner on a Stanley cup team. If he's on your third line you have one of the best forward groups in hockey history.

You may "think" ladd is a third liner, but statistical production says differently. He's a first liner, not a great one, but a serviceable one. He's a fantastic second liner.

This idea that you need to be scoring 60+ points to be on the first line is bizarre and not based in reality. His scoring production firmly puts him in the mid/low top line to high second line catagory.

If your expecting your hockey club to have 6 forwards better then ladd you should prepare yourself for perennial disappointment.

-Sorry, this is a rage button issue for me....

garret9 01-30-2013 06:59 PM

STATS TIME

For Mr. Andrew Ladd:

Looking at all forwards last season just for even strength who played 40+ games... regardless of position, regardless of ease/difficulty of job/usage/minutes, and regardless of good/bad luck...
(out of 368, which equals ~12 per each of the 30 teams)
137th in points per minute
*some people behind him: Ryan Callahan, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Daniel Briere, Bryan Little, Dany Heatley, Ryan Kesler, Ryan Getlaf
35th in goals per minute (also 24th in shots on goal per game so you know it's not because of luck)
*some people behind him: Rick Nash, Jeff Skinner, Scott Hartnell, Alex Ovechkin, Claude Giroux, Zach Parise, Jarome Iginla, Corey Perry, Daniel Sedin, David Krejci, Ilya Kovalchuk, Milan Lucic, John Taveres, Joffrey Lupul
So even though Ladd actually faced pretty decent competition levels (more than many above him in the points/60 and a few above him in the goals/60), he still put up numbers that shows he IS NOT a 3rd liner.

Let's look at how he did relative those with similarly tough his job was... Looking at all NHL LWers who faced more than 40 games and mostly faced top6 competition levels (>0.300 RelCorsiQoC for stats nerds)...
36th in points per minute
10th in goals per minute
10th in Corsi (out-chancing their opponent)
2nd in RelCorsi (relative to team average to reduce the affect of being on a strong/weak team)

Here's a really statsy one... Looking at forwards who played: 40+ games, more than 1.5 pts per 60 mins, faced high-end competition (>0.300 RelQoC), and highly out-chanced their opponents (>5 Corsi and >5 RelCorsi) and not pushed into the offensive zone for more than 60% of their shifts (AKA the Sedin offense cheating)
You only get 38 names, which I would say are the most effective two-way forwards... in order of goal scoring they are:
Vrbata, Benn, Marchand, Seguin, Steen, Hornqvist, Voracek, Ladd, Hartnell, Giroux, Pavelski, Franzen, Perry, Lucic, Marleau, Couture, Zetterber, Sykora, Grabovski, Hall, Little, Whitney, Datsyuk, PBergeron, Landeskog, Kopitar, Kennedy, Downie, Williams, Backes, Thornton, Brown, Jagr, O'Reilly, Wheeler, Hanzal, Ott

He does have his weaknesses...
He was one of our worst forwards for giveaways (but his decent takeaways help negate some of that).
He does take a lot of penalties per minutes (but he also draws a lot of penalties to negate that).


I did a very indepth breakdown of everyone of our regular players last season... you can find it if you click ->HERE<- each name is a link to that players breakdown.

pegcity 01-30-2013 07:44 PM

Ladd is an average second line left winger. He has a great shot, he can hit and make the occasional nice pass. However, he makes noticeable mistakes every game and often looks lost on the ice. Hopefully, we have enough depth at some point to put him on the third line.

Jet 01-30-2013 07:45 PM

I wasn't very high on Ladd for the majority of last season. I didn't like the penalties he took and believed (and still do) that your captain needs to be an extension of your coaching staff.

However, he gets results. He scores big goals. The stats have proven over and over he is a bonafide top 6 forward. He is committed to Winnipeg and the Jets long term.

All in all, I am pretty happy. He's no Thomas Steen, but he's no Kris King either :)

razorsedge 01-30-2013 07:47 PM

I think Ladd's leadership will shine once the team makes the playoffs. He'll be a warrior and lead by example.

Right now he's a low key. Although not pretty he gets his job done.

My only wish is he would play a bit more physical with the odd tussle to get the boys inspired.

Grind 01-30-2013 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegcity (Post 58706069)
Ladd is an average second line left winger. He has a great shot, he can hit and make the occasional nice pass. However, he makes noticeable mistakes every game and often looks lost on the ice. Hopefully, we have enough depth at some point to put him on the third line.

please see above postings as to why this is incorrect.

if we have enough depth to put him on the third line we are one of the best hockey teams in history.

EDIT: or one too many top calibre left wings, and we should probably ship one of them out to shore up deficiencies elsewhere.
you may not like his penalties. you may not like his "style". But Ladd is one of the most productive left wingers in the game.

ryan calahan is a similar player. He plays a gritty, grindy, game, but has the talent, and production to warrent top 6 minutes. He can't be the guy driving the bus, but he'll certainly make that guy better.

King Woodballs 01-30-2013 07:48 PM

He is good
I am generally happy with what he has done

pegcity 01-30-2013 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind (Post 58706341)
please see above postings as to why this is incorrect.

if we have enough depth to put him on the third line we are one of the best hockey teams in history.

EDIT: or one too many top calibre left wings, and we should probably ship one of them out to shore up deficiencies elsewhere.
you may not like his penalties. you may not like his "style". But Ladd is one of the most productive left wingers in the game.

ryan calahan is a similar player. He plays a gritty, grindy, game, but has the talent, and production to warrent top 6 minutes. He can't be the guy driving the bus, but he'll certainly make that guy better.

Third line players don't score 30 goals. Ladd won't score 30 goals on a third line.

Also, if you include turnovers and dumb penalties to his goals and hits, then yes, he is one of the most productive left wingers in the game.

YWGinYYZ 01-30-2013 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegcity (Post 58712945)
Third line players don't score 30 goals. Ladd won't score 30 goals on a third line.

Also, if you include turnovers and dumb penalties to his goals and hits, then yes, he is one of the most productive left wingers in the game.

Most third liners aren't going to move to the second or first line and pot 30 either.

He does take some silly penalties, I'll give you that.

TroubaFan1 01-30-2013 09:37 PM

I like Ladd, and what he brings as the Jets captain. The penalties at the wrong times seem to happen too often for my liking though.

Hawker14 01-30-2013 09:41 PM

He's a tough, skilled, hard-playing character guy who gives 100% effort every shift.

Exactly the type of guy who should be leading the team.

As most others have said, it's not his fault some have unrealistic expectations for his offensive output.

I like and support our captain.

:laugh:

Vander Teemuchuk 01-30-2013 09:48 PM

He's a clear second liner. If we have any positional strength at all on our team it's left wing. It's one of the rosier pictures Line 1 through 3 that there is in the league.

I just wish that Ladd would get the friggin puck in deep and stop coughing it up at the opposing team's blue line. There's no excuse for it and it's absolutely got to stop.

So yes, he does make a poor transition zone puck carrier. But does so many other things really good.

garret9 01-30-2013 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegcity (Post 58712945)
Third line players don't score 30 goals. Ladd won't score 30 goals on a third line.

Also, if you include turnovers and dumb penalties to his goals and hits, then yes, he is one of the most productive left wingers in the game.

No he won't but he'll score more goals than the other third liners, because he scores goals at a faster rate than them.
As I pointed out...
His goal scoring rate is low 1st line level.
When you compare him to other top6 players who play his level of competition he scores at a top 10 rate.


Re: penalties
He does create a bit but less than: Kane, Burmistrov, Jokinen, Thorburn, Antropov
He also draws about the same amount of penalties as he creates, which negates it a lot...


Re: giveaways
He does giveaway more than the rest of the forwards on the team (well actually Jokinen in Calgary was worse), but he does play on a line with Little who has the best takeaway/giveaway differential in the league (don't know if playing winger will change that though)...


Why are we all discussing things I've already proved and shown?

Mods... can we sticky this thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1324453 lawl

Grind 01-30-2013 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garret9 (Post 58718875)
No he won't but he'll score more goals than the other third liners, because he scores goals at a faster rate than them.
As I pointed out...
His goal scoring rate is low 1st line level.
When you compare him to other top6 players who play his level of competition he scores at a top 10 rate.


Re: penalties
He does create a bit but less than: Kane, Burmistrov, Jokinen, Thorburn, Antropov
He also draws about the same amount of penalties as he creates, which negates it a lot...


Re: giveaways
He does giveaway more than the rest of the forwards on the team (well actually Jokinen in Calgary was worse), but he does play on a line with Little who has the best takeaway/giveaway differential in the league (don't know if playing winger will change that though)...


Why are we all discussing things I've already proved and shown?

Mods... can we sticky this thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1324453 lawl


because you and I are clearly gluttons for punishment.

this is one of my main pet peeves that i think we'll be dealing with until ladds dealt/retires/signs elsewhere. He does make some bad plays/giveaways, but i think because of his "style" people rag on him for not being top 6 or first line, when he clearly is. Style doesn't determine how good you are, production does.

maybe some would prefer fancy hands, slick dekes, and all skill on the top 6. I care about one thing, more pucks int he opponents net then our own. I don't give two ***** how you do it, just do that and i'll be happy- something ladd contributes to in a positive way, regardless of his "stone hands".

edit: i also get the feeling even if ladd scored 35 goals this season, he still wouldn't get the credit he deserves.

scelaton 01-31-2013 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garret9 (Post 58718875)
Why are we all discussing things I've already proved and shown?

LOL, you provide fascinating, detailed information, which I and many others enjoy...but sometimes it's just too damned much to remember. Here's the KISS version of what you have already shown with your fancier terminology:
Ladd was 15th in goals for a LW last season
Ladd was 29th in points for a LW last season
Ladd=Mid to low 1st line numbers, packaged with defence, grit and leadership, on a team already endowed with a first line offensive LW.
What are we complaining about again?

garret9 01-31-2013 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scelaton (Post 58727843)
LOL, you provide fascinating, detailed information, which I and many others enjoy...but sometimes it's just too damned much to remember. Here's the KISS version of what you have already shown with your fancier terminology:
Ladd was 15th in goals for a LW last season
Ladd was 29th in points for a LW last season
Ladd=Mid to low 1st line numbers, packaged with defence, grit and leadership, on a team already endowed with a first line offensive LW.
What are we complaining about again?

I am a bit much :laugh: even in person haha

Speaking of which... I need to come to the Peg for a game sometime

Jet 01-31-2013 12:09 AM

I think the expectation of a top 6 forward is:

- fast
- dangler
- sniper
- great passer

Of course some of the very best are all of these but top 6 forwards can excel in some areas but not other. Ladd is a very high end grinder. He has better than average finish which allows him to score at a top 6 rate.

I think his hockey awareness is below top 6 level. That is why he tends to turn the puck over in bad spots and make some less than smart decisions. He is more gritty than a typical top 6 winger which is a benefit, but at the same time makes him prone to the odd bad penalty.

He might not be a picture perfect top 6 winger, or captain for that matter, but I am glad he is on the team. I think his true worth will emerge in the post season.


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