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-   -   Hamilton III: There's A New Sheriff In Town (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1338133)

Evil Doctor 01-31-2013 01:53 PM

Hamilton III: There's A New Sheriff In Town
 
Continued from here...http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...916243&page=41

I was expecting to make this so soon. I figured it wouldn't be until March when Global Spectrum takes over Copps that a new thread would be created. I guess with Markham in the news and the rampant speculation that is going with it, it is inevitable that people are curious on how this affects Hamilton. So have at it...

BTW HamiltonTigers, if can repost the Spec Scott Radley article here, it would be appreciated...

JMROWE 01-31-2013 02:09 PM

The thing is that if Markham dose build this arena it will be & uphill battle to get an NHL. team with MLSE. most likely to say no unless you pay a huge money to let them in & I do mean huge money & in the the end with out the cost of the arena youare looking at 600 million dollar price tag & good luck trying to find someone who will pay that much for a hockey team .

Buck Aki Berg 01-31-2013 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMROWE (Post 58753871)
The thing is that if Markham dose build this arena it will be & uphill battle to get an NHL. team with MLSE. most likely to say no unless you pay a huge money to let them in & I do mean huge money & in the the end with out the cost of the arena youare looking at 600 million dollar price tag & good luck trying to find someone who will pay that much for a hockey team .

They're one vote out of 30.

Hamilton Tigers 01-31-2013 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun
Probably not, especially with Quebec City and Seattle gaining steam and standing as the obvious frontrunners, one way or the other.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see Seattle commanding as high an expansion fee as would Hamilton/Markham.

I see Seattle as more of a relocation market.

Hamilton Tigers 01-31-2013 02:19 PM

Markham arena puts Hamiltonís NHL hopes on ice
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Doctor (Post 58752843)
BTW HamiltonTigers, if can repost the Spec Scott Radley article here, it would be appreciated...



Quote:

Whether itís a better gamble in 2013 than it was in 1985, or an insane move to go all in while holding a pair of twos is a debate thatís already raging. Either way, if an arena does go up in Markham, many would say Hamiltonís long-awaited NHL shot ought to be given last rites, once and for all.
http://www.thespec.com/sports/articl...l-hopes-on-ice

TheTakedown764 01-31-2013 02:21 PM

Key arena seems much more viable than Copps

MarkhamNHL 01-31-2013 02:22 PM

So you think MLSE will take less and share the territory fee with Buffalo together a team in Hamilton? LOL. First off, Hamilton would be a tough sell to US teams, half of Americans don't even know where Columbus and Raleigh are, nevermind Hamilton. Selling tickets to a "Toronto" game would easier to market. Plus new MLSE ownership is sports content hungry, another team in Toronto will bring them big bucks.. so add it up... territroy fee, broaadcasting and they can pay down their cost of purchasing MLSE rather handsomely. and wwho knows, maybe they will rent the ACC to the new team for$$$ until the new arena is ready.... This ain`t your dad`s MLSE...

Hamilton Tigers 01-31-2013 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL (Post 58754729)
So you think MLSE will take less and share the territory fee with Buffalo together a team in Hamilton?

The league deteremines indemnification, not individual franchises


Quote:

First off, Hamilton would be a tough sell to US teams, half of Americans don't even know where Columbus and Raleigh are, nevermind Hamilton. Selling tickets to a "Toronto" game would easier to market. Plus new MLSE ownership is sports content hungry, another team in Toronto will bring them big bucks.. so add it up... territroy fee, broaadcasting and they can pay down their cost of purchasing MLSE rather handsomely. and wwho knows, maybe they will rent the ACC to the new team for$$$ until the new arena is ready.... This ain`t your dad`s MLSE...
All valid points, for sure. Like I said, I can only hope MLSE would not want another arena to compete with.

And again, this is all based on the assumption that a Markham arena will be built.

Buck Aki Berg 01-31-2013 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkhamNHL (Post 58754729)
First off, Hamilton would be a tough sell to US teams, half of Americans don't even know where Columbus and Raleigh are, nevermind Hamilton.

Call me naive, but are there really prospective ticket buyers out there saying to themselves "I'd rather wait for New York/Los Angeles to come to town than see Columbus/Raleigh, because I don't know where those cities are"? I know I'm simplifying the notion, but that just seems incredibly silly.

Also, with 25 of 30 teams running at 95% capacity or better (and 20 of those teams at 100% or better), the idea of I-don't-know-where-that-city-is is a non-factor, since limited supply might force you to get tickets for a team you don't want to see if you want to see a game at all.

MarkhamNHL 01-31-2013 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg (Post 58756137)
Call me naive, but are there really prospective ticket buyers out there saying to themselves "I'd rather wait for New York/Los Angeles to come to town than see Columbus/Raleigh, because I don't know where those cities are"? I know I'm simplifying the notion, but that just seems incredibly silly.

Also, with 25 of 30 teams running at 95% capacity or better (and 20 of those teams at 100% or better), the idea of I-don't-know-where-that-city-is is a non-factor, since limited supply might force you to get tickets for a team you don't want to see if you want to see a game at all.

It's not just tickets, but viewership, merchandising etc..

No Fun Shogun 01-31-2013 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg (Post 58754227)
They're one vote out of 30.

Buffalo makes it two.

Plus, it's not just their votes, but their influence. You'd better believe that they'd politick their butts off in the BoG to rally votes against Hamilton as an expansion candidate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamilton Tigers (Post 58754343)
I could be wrong, but I just don't see Seattle commanding as high an expansion fee as would Hamilton/Markham.

I see Seattle as more of a relocation market.

Problem is that there's really only one relocation candidate open, the Yotes, and likely two markets interested, Seattle and Quebec City. I have a hard time imagining that Seattle would offer a higher bid than the QC for a team this offseason, so I think Seattle will have to wait if push comes to shove.

Once that's done, when expansion is considered, you are right that Hamilton or Markham would probably be willing to offer more, but they're not going to expand by two in Canada and any expansion fee they ask for will almost assuredly have to be equal both sides of the border. Unless they got around that by putting down an exorbitant territorial indemnity for a Hamilton-based franchise setting up shop, I think they're more inclined to just ignore Hamilton and expand by two American teams that pay equally instead.

Plus, there's the aforementioned opposition from the Leafs and Sabres and the fact that everything that the NHL has shown over the past decade that they have no interest in Copps as a permanent NHL home.

BraveCanadian 01-31-2013 02:50 PM

I can't believe the public is picking up half the tab on this.. what a waste of 150 million dollars.

MoreOrr 01-31-2013 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraveCanadian (Post 58756411)
I can't believe the public is picking up half the tab on this.. what a waste of 150 million dollars.

Because the Markham people haven't been promised a team; there's no guarantee that they'll rake in big time if they don't get a team. The public is also going out on a limb, hoping that if they build it, the NHL will come.

BraveCanadian 01-31-2013 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreOrr (Post 58756761)
Because the Markham people haven't been promised a team; there's no guarantee that they'll rate in big time if they don't get a team. The public is also going out on a limb, hoping that if they build it, the NHL will come.

In which case they'd be out 300 million because the city is taking out the loan to build the thing and apparently the private interests will pay back half over time.

Good luck Markham. I'll believe it when I see it.

cutchemist42 01-31-2013 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg (Post 58756137)
Call me naive, but are there really prospective ticket buyers out there saying to themselves "I'd rather wait for New York/Los Angeles to come to town than see Columbus/Raleigh, because I don't know where those cities are"? I know I'm simplifying the notion, but that just seems incredibly silly.

Also, with 25 of 30 teams running at 95% capacity or better (and 20 of those teams at 100% or better), the idea of I-don't-know-where-that-city-is is a non-factor, since limited supply might force you to get tickets for a team you don't want to see if you want to see a game at all.

I agree, if America can turn teams like Boise St and Green Bay into national sport interests, the same can be said about other small cities. If your going to accept Winnipeg, why draw the line at Hamilton? Your only watching the NHL to see the best players right?

I can't think of anyone I know who thinks like this.

JMROWE 01-31-2013 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azaloum90 (Post 58754611)
Key arena seems much more viable than Copps

Key Arena is 51 years old (1962) I doubt its more viable than Copps Coliseum because is only 27 years & can be renovated up to NHL. standerd & last another 40 years but they need to do it soon because in my opinion Copps Coliseum needs to be renovated in the next 5-10 years after that the arena would be to far gone to renovate .

JMROWE 01-31-2013 04:31 PM

Another thing how much you want to bet that if Markham can't get the cash to bulid that arena they will be looking at getting provincial tax dollars to fund this so called arena if that happens there will be a huge backlash from the rest of the province because nobody wants in Ontario wants to fund another pet project for the GTA. .

Gnashville 01-31-2013 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg (Post 58754227)
They're one vote out of 30.

With a ton of influence, they supported the lockout and revenue sharing. No one is going to cross their wishes.

Melrose Munch 01-31-2013 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg (Post 58756137)
Call me naive, but are there really prospective ticket buyers out there saying to themselves "I'd rather wait for New York/Los Angeles to come to town than see Columbus/Raleigh, because I don't know where those cities are"? I know I'm simplifying the notion, but that just seems incredibly silly.

Also, with 25 of 30 teams running at 95% capacity or better (and 20 of those teams at 100% or better), the idea of I-don't-know-where-that-city-is is a non-factor, since limited supply might force you to get tickets for a team you don't want to see if you want to see a game at all.

That happens in the NFL let alone hockey. At any given time there is at most 10 marketable teams loss or not.

Big McLargehuge 01-31-2013 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg (Post 58754227)
They're one vote out of 30.

You don't think they hold any power over the other teams?

Buffalo also votes no - and Buffalo's no vote would right there likely bring along the two Pennsylvania teams and probably the two New York teams (which would likely bring along the Devils as well). We're up to seven no votes right there without exploring the strings that Toronto could pull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMROWE (Post 58761207)
Key Arena is 51 years old (1962) I doubt its more viable than Copps Coliseum because is only 27 years & can be renovated up to NHL. standerd & last another 40 years but they need to do it soon because in my opinion Copps Coliseum needs to be renovated in the next 5-10 years after that the arena would be to far gone to renovate .

KeyArena is also only on the table as a temporary venue before moving into a brand spanking new first class arena. Whatever Seattle is going to build is going to be a far nicer arena than a renovated Copps Coliseum could ever hope to be. Seattle isn't on the table without a new arena and Copps is significantly below par for an NHL arena. It would have worked when it was built, but it was already rendered outdated by the end of the 90s. Hell, there are NFL teams with stadiums built in the early 90s that are threatening to move because of their stadiums being lapped a million times over by stadiums built just a couple years later. Copps would enter the NHL as the 5th oldest building in the league...Madison Square Garden isn't recognizable from what it was when it opened, Edmonton is getting a new arena, Detroit will get a new arena, and Calgary will eventually get a new arena...then there's a huge gap between Copps and Anaheim's Honda Center.

It still blows my mind that the Honda Center is likely to be the 2nd oldest building in the NHL in 5 years.

Finnish your Czech 02-01-2013 12:07 AM

Hamilton vs Markham all comes down to how badly MLSE wants to be a monopoly over having extra TV content with a new franchise, and a higher territorial fee.

Hamilton Tigers 02-01-2013 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azaloum90 (Post 58754611)
Key arena seems much more viable than Copps



Quote:

Developer Chris Hansen spoke in front of Seattle City Council Wednesday morning and stated,”Renovating Key Arena again is not an option, as the venue is not big enough for NHL hockey games.”
http://sciencewitness.com/news/687.html

Concordski 02-01-2013 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMROWE (Post 58761207)
Key Arena is 51 years old (1962) I doubt its more viable than Copps Coliseum because is only 27 years & can be renovated up to NHL. standerd & last another 40 years but they need to do it soon because in my opinion Copps Coliseum needs to be renovated in the next 5-10 years after that the arena would be to far gone to renovate .

If there's anything Crisler Arena in Ann Arbor has taught me, it's that Arenas can never get too old to renovate if the fundamental structure can last 40 more years.

Evil Doctor 02-01-2013 07:30 AM

A few minor HECFI bits of news, none really hockey related...

Uncertainty nearing an end for HECFI employees

Quote:

HECFI CEO John Hertel says they've set February.19th as the date on which staffers will find out if they are receiving job offers from the new private operator or merely severance payments.

Hertel says that they will be "reveiwing with all team members", with Global Spectrum on site and with support from the city's human resources department.
I believe that puts it approximately 6 weeks prior to the takeover.

HECFIís new operators can recoup 2013 losses from city

Quote:

ē Allow the Carmenís Group to apply for up to $450,546 and Global Spectrum to apply for up to $110,000 in additional fees for any losses they incur in the transitional year.
One should always under promise and over deliver...

Buck Aki Berg 02-01-2013 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge (Post 58808355)
You don't think they hold any power over the other teams?

Buffalo also votes no - and Buffalo's no vote would right there likely bring along the two Pennsylvania teams and probably the two New York teams (which would likely bring along the Devils as well). We're up to seven no votes right there without exploring the strings that Toronto could pull.

Care to humour me and explain to my why Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, the Islanders, Rangers, and Devils would just automatically vote no, simply because Buffalo voted no as well? You're gonna have to show your work on this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnashville (Post 58762775)
With a ton of influence, they supported the lockout and revenue sharing. No one is going to cross their wishes.

All thirty teams supported the lockout. And considering revenue sharing was a keystone of the lockout, I presume all thirty teams supported that too. What's your point?


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