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-   -   Post Game Talk: Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Rangers SLOP FEST!!! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1338473)

ColePens 01-31-2013 08:34 PM

Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Rangers SLOP FEST!!!
 
Plus

+ Despres: Simon is playing amazing hockey. To talk about the first goal is easy. He made an above average play to keep it in w/ an awkward pass from Letang by using his skate. After he regains the puck, he makes a quick pass to Geno because his hockey awareness is great. Other parts of his game I like is his physical grit and protection of the puck by using board passes every single time. He might use the boards more than any player. That's a good thing.

+ Vokoun: He doesn't have the ceiling Fleury has, but he's so calm and cool back there. He also kills all rebounds. This is a move that you guys take for granted while you blast Shero. Could you imagine Brent Johnson being in net right now? Then we would have to overuse Fleury because we have no faith in Johny. Instead we have a guy who plays like a #1.

His calming influence also helps our defense relax. Less rebounds makes the job of a defender easy.

+ Defense: Smooth tonight. Cleared the puck when needed to and great gaps taking time away from the Rangers. I wish they'd be a little more gritty and just hammer the puck away from danger areas. Sometimes we try to be too cute or perfect. Just hammer the **** out of it. Icings >>>>> goals against.

+ Lines when they stay the same: Talking about the normal line up without all the line juggling. They start to feed off one another. I can't stand line juggling. It is so dumb. I respect putting Sid/Geno together in pressure situations, but stop all the nonsense. This team clicks when we keep it simple. Trying to be a chess player with line juggling rarely ever works. Keep it simple like we did in 09 and run with it.


+ The Lockout: The lockout helped the Rangers be average. They needed a camp more than any team in the NHL. So much talent just completely garbage right now. They look HORRIBLE.



Minus

- Bylsma: I hate hate hate stretch passes. I'll make this simple because I ***** about it 24/7. The stretch pass makes sense when you do it here/there. Every single time and all it does is take our pressure off the game. They are standing around doing nothing. There is no speed in the neutral zone. We just throw the puck 90 feet and hope. It's the absolute worst. Bylsma is already giving up on coming out of the zone with speed.


- Effort: The players did not play harder than they did against the Isles. The Rangers just matched our lack of intensity. Both teams deserved to lose. I'm so disappointed in our effort. There is no absurd determination to want to win. I blame part of it on our system which sort of makes us stand around. It's quite concerning to see the lack of effort on the ice.

And don't be fooled by winning this game. Both teams played about as bad as they can make it seem. There is waaaaaay too much talent on that ice for the game to be that piss poor. If both teams tonight played the Isles and their effort from Tuesday, the Isles whip 'em good.

- Kunitz: This is the worst I've seen Kunitz play as a Penguin. He's worthless out there. He just circles around and does nothing right. Stop and start... finish a hit. Do something positive for the team.

- Not keeping it simple: We don't support the puck well still and we aren't making simple plays. We are trying to be wayyyy too cute with the puck in almost every zone.

SteelFish87* 01-31-2013 08:35 PM

+ Malkin looked good
+ Despres looked good
+ Neal didnt have a great game but had a sick goal
+ Vokoun is solid

- Refs...pretty one sided. missed 2-3 obvi offsides, Staal drops his gloves and jumps malkin no pp, cooke and dupuis calls were weak
- Announcers on NHL network were horrible

TorstenFrings 01-31-2013 08:42 PM

Well, word on everything you said about Vokoun. Obviously.

dr robbie 01-31-2013 08:42 PM

+ Despres. Lots of hustle. Good Goal.
+ Dupuis. Good hustle leading to the Despres Goal.
+ Vokoun. I feel very less worried when he's playing. Maybe that's a good thing?
+ Neal. Slick deflection.
+ Defense, including Martin, still looked solid
+ Adams. I really like his constant pressure out there.

= Crosby. Eh?

- Sloppy play.
- Malkin's turnovers
- Wasn't really a good game, just a good result
- No chemistry whatsoever

Dacks 01-31-2013 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelFish87 (Post 58788099)
+ Malkin looked good
+ Despres looked good
+ Neal didnt have a great game but had a sick goal
+ Vokoun is solid

- Refs...pretty one sided. missed 2-3 obvi offsides, Staal drops his gloves and jumps malkin no pp, cooke and dupuis calls were weak
- Announcers on NHL network were horrible

I really couldn't believe it.

mpp9 01-31-2013 08:43 PM

I think we're a couple moves away from having the best team on paper since Sid/Geno came here.

Despres is alot farther along than I expected. He's making better players than our #1. Making mistakes but making up for them. Can't expect more from a rookie. If we move him, it better be for nothing less than Sid's ideal linemate.

Jeffrey looked very good with Malkin. Working the give and go's. High hockey IQ on that kid. May not stick here, but he's got an NHL future ahead of him.

Agree with Cole, we still look like ****. Rangers are just worse. And we have the confidence knowing we've owned them the past year. Don't like our stretch passes. Dont' like the lack of intensity.

mrzeigler 01-31-2013 08:43 PM

+ for this season shaping up to be the one that the Rangers fire Tortorella for shackling highly paid creative forwards with a style of hockey that offensive, not offensive. Even though I don't wish the Rangers any success, I cringe that this is the brand of hockey being sold by the dominant team in the NY market.

Zero Pucks 01-31-2013 08:43 PM

The offense still ****ing blows. Glad the D and Vokoun showed up tonight.

SEALBound 01-31-2013 08:44 PM

Both teams played like ass. Neither team or fan base should be excited. Garbage hockey.

+
Despres and Vokoun

-
Everyone else

=
Bortuzzo for his debut. Not great, but not bad. He gets the pass.

Other +'s
The talk about Jeffrey, Boychuk, and Zlobin.

MrBurghundy 01-31-2013 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogrezilla (Post 58789595)
ya why not try it.

It's certainly not going to hurt.

Dupuis - Crosby - Neal
Kunitz - Malkin - Jeffrey

Certainly not ideal, but it doesn't look absolutely horrible either...

Maybe throw Boychuk on Crosby's line too while we wait for a trade to occur.

Boychuk - Crosby - Neal
Kunitz - Malkin - Jeffrey

Ugene Malkin 01-31-2013 08:45 PM

Jeffrey needs love.

+ Vokoun
+Despres
+ playing 60 minutes
+Despres


-game was very sloppy/slow.

Pancakes 01-31-2013 08:45 PM

I'm not convinced at all that this effort is turning anything around. This game was as much a result of the Rangers looking horrible as anything because the Pens still looked like crap most of the night. It was a horrible hockey game to watch.

That said, Simon Despres is a keeper. He better not be getting scratched at again.

OGBobbyFarnham 01-31-2013 08:45 PM

PP#1 is sorted.
Still need a guy to lug the puck up but Letang and Malkin are the guys to do it right now.
Once they set up in the O-zone they're very dangerous.

If DB's goal is defensive efforts like tonight and vs Ottawa, he's certainly on the right track for establishing a playoff ready hockey team. Just has to be more consistent with it though.

Love that we pulled Voukon in the off season. A key position this team needed was a #2 capable of pushing for the #1.

metalan2 01-31-2013 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColePens (Post 58787855)
Plus

+ Despres: Simon is playing amazing hockey. To talk about the first goal is easy. He made an above average play to keep it in w/ an awkward pass from Letang by using his skate. After he regains the puck, he makes a quick pass to Geno because his hockey awareness is great. Other parts of his game I like is his physical grit and protection of the puck by using board passes every single time. He might use the boards more than any player. That's a good thing.

+ Vokoun: He doesn't have the ceiling Fleury has, but he's so calm and cool back there. He also kills all rebounds. This is a move that you guys take for granted while you blast Shero. Could you imagine Brent Johnson being in net right now? Then we would have to overuse Fleury because we have no faith in Johny. Instead we have a guy who plays like a #1.

His calming influence also helps our defense relax. Less rebounds makes the job of a defender easy.

+ Defense: Smooth tonight. Cleared the puck when needed to and great gaps taking time away from the Rangers. I wish they'd be a little more gritty and just hammer the puck away from danger areas. Sometimes we try to be too cute or perfect. Just hammer the **** out of it. Icings >>>>> goals against.

+ Lines when they stay the same: Talking about the normal line up without all the line juggling. They start to feed off one another. I can't stand line juggling. It is so dumb. I respect putting Sid/Geno together in pressure situations, but stop all the nonsense. This team clicks when we keep it simple. Trying to be a chess player with line juggling rarely ever works. Keep it simple like we did in 09 and run with it.


+ The Lockout: The lockout helped the Rangers be average. They needed a camp more than any team in the NHL. So much talent just completely garbage right now. They look HORRIBLE.



Minus

- Bylsma: I hate hate hate stretch passes. I'll make this simple because I ***** about it 24/7. The stretch pass makes sense when you do it here/there. Every single time and all it does is take our pressure off the game. They are standing around doing nothing. There is no speed in the neutral zone. We just throw the puck 90 feet and hope. It's the absolute worst. Bylsma is already giving up on coming out of the zone with speed.


- Effort: The players did not play harder than they did against the Isles. The Rangers just matched our lack of intensity. Both teams deserved to lose. I'm so disappointed in our effort. There is no absurd determination to want to win. I blame part of it on our system which sort of makes us stand around. It's quite concerning to see the lack of effort on the ice.

And don't be fooled by winning this game. Both teams played about as bad as they can make it seem. There is waaaaaay too much talent on that ice for the game to be that piss poor. If both teams tonight played the Isles and their effort from Tuesday, the Isles whip 'em good.

- Kunitz: This is the worst I've seen Kunitz play as a Penguin. He's worthless out there. He just circles around and does nothing right. Stop and start... finish a hit. Do something positive for the team.

- Not keeping it simple: We don't support the puck well still and we aren't making simple plays. We are trying to be wayyyy too cute with the puck in almost every zone.

Fleury can only hope to reach Vokoun's ceiling IMHO, and hasn't come close yet in his career. I guess it will take another 8 or so years to find out.

eXile59 01-31-2013 08:46 PM

Am I the only one still worried that the all most all of our offense comes from three guys? I know Despres & Dupuis have scored recently but for the most part it's all been Neal, Malkin, Crosby.

KIRK 01-31-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColePens (Post 58787855)
Plus

+ Despres: Simon is playing amazing hockey. To talk about the first goal is easy. He made an above average play to keep it in w/ an awkward pass from Letang by using his skate. After he regains the puck, he makes a quick pass to Geno because his hockey awareness is great. Other parts of his game I like is his physical grit and protection of the puck by using board passes every single time. He might use the boards more than any player. That's a good thing.

+ Vokoun: He doesn't have the ceiling Fleury has, but he's so calm and cool back there. He also kills all rebounds. This is a move that you guys take for granted while you blast Shero. Could you imagine Brent Johnson being in net right now? Then we would have to overuse Fleury because we have no faith in Johny. Instead we have a guy who plays like a #1.

His calming influence also helps our defense relax. Less rebounds makes the job of a defender easy.

+ Defense: Smooth tonight. Cleared the puck when needed to and great gaps taking time away from the Rangers. I wish they'd be a little more gritty and just hammer the puck away from danger areas. Sometimes we try to be too cute or perfect. Just hammer the **** out of it. Icings >>>>> goals against.

+ Lines when they stay the same: Talking about the normal line up without all the line juggling. They start to feed off one another. I can't stand line juggling. It is so dumb. I respect putting Sid/Geno together in pressure situations, but stop all the nonsense. This team clicks when we keep it simple. Trying to be a chess player with line juggling rarely ever works. Keep it simple like we did in 09 and run with it.


+ The Lockout: The lockout helped the Rangers be average. They needed a camp more than any team in the NHL. So much talent just completely garbage right now. They look HORRIBLE.



Minus

- Bylsma: I hate hate hate stretch passes. I'll make this simple because I ***** about it 24/7. The stretch pass makes sense when you do it here/there. Every single time and all it does is take our pressure off the game. They are standing around doing nothing. There is no speed in the neutral zone. We just throw the puck 90 feet and hope. It's the absolute worst. Bylsma is already giving up on coming out of the zone with speed.


- Effort: The players did not play harder than they did against the Isles. The Rangers just matched our lack of intensity. Both teams deserved to lose. I'm so disappointed in our effort. There is no absurd determination to want to win. I blame part of it on our system which sort of makes us stand around. It's quite concerning to see the lack of effort on the ice.

And don't be fooled by winning this game. Both teams played about as bad as they can make it seem. There is waaaaaay too much talent on that ice for the game to be that piss poor. If both teams tonight played the Isles and their effort from Tuesday, the Isles whip 'em good.


- Kunitz: This is the worst I've seen Kunitz play as a Penguin. He's worthless out there. He just circles around and does nothing right. Stop and start... finish a hit. Do something positive for the team.

- Not keeping it simple: We don't support the puck well still and we aren't making simple plays. We are trying to be wayyyy too cute with the puck in almost every zone.

Amen Cole.

Two quick additions:

1. I thought Malkin was better, and I was delightfully surprised to be him trust Jeffrey more in one game than any of the other merri-go-wingers in all games combined. That said, Geno on the point on a PP . . . well, let's just say that it didn't make for unentertaining hockey and leave it at that. :shakehead

2. I liked what I saw from Jeffrey tonight.

Scandale du Jour 01-31-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacks (Post 58789819)
I really couldn't believe it.

I was stock with Michel Lacroix and Norman Flynn on RDS, I'm sure they are worse than whoever was on the NHL Network. They don't know **** about either team and they always make comparaisons with the damn Canadiens. Plus sound quality is awful because they do the game from a studio.

roready 01-31-2013 08:47 PM

+++ the pens were lucky early
++ Voukohn (the goalie) is good

--- TOO MANY turnovers

I just want one game were the Pens play great for a full 60 minutes. If it doesn't happen until the Stanley Cup Finals, I guess I can live with that.

mrzeigler 01-31-2013 08:47 PM

+ for Jeffrey ... I'm was only partly joking when, in the thread asking for daring predictions, I said he'd out score Parise this season, but I was pretty effing chagrined when he started the season riding the pine. If he gets bumped for Boychuk, I will sneak into the following DB press scrum and throw a shoe at him.

Warm Cookies 01-31-2013 08:47 PM

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Y-DbBvf7R5...espres_500.jpg

I LOVE ELMER! (no homo)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColePens (Post 58787855)
B]Minus[/B]

- Bylsma: I hate hate hate stretch passes. I'll make this simple because I ***** about it 24/7. The stretch pass makes sense when you do it here/there. Every single time and all it does is take our pressure off the game. They are standing around doing nothing. There is no speed in the neutral zone. We just throw the puck 90 feet and hope. It's the absolute worst. Bylsma is already giving up on coming out of the zone with speed.

The offense did look disjointed, but I think if you're going to make defense a plus, Bylsma deserves some credit on that front. I believe he coaches both aspects of the game. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColePens (Post 58787855)
- Effort: The players did not play harder than they did against the Isles. The Rangers just matched our lack of intensity. Both teams deserved to lose. I'm so disappointed in our effort. There is no absurd determination to want to win. I blame part of it on our system which sort of makes us stand around. It's quite concerning to see the lack of effort on the ice.

It wasn't a balls-out affair, but we're making progress. The 50/50 battle level was much better this game, IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColePens (Post 58787855)
+ Vokoun: He doesn't have the ceiling Fleury has, but he's so calm and cool back there. He also kills all rebounds. This is a move that you guys take for granted while you blast Shero. Could you imagine Brent Johnson being in net right now? Then we would have to overuse Fleury because we have no faith in Johny. Instead we have a guy who plays like a #1.

His calming influence also helps our defense relax. Less rebounds makes the job of a defender easy.

He's the anti-Fleury, in terms of composure. And PUCK-HANDLING. Perfect for this team.

I hope it'll spur MAF to reflection and self-improvement.

MrBurghundy 01-31-2013 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpp9 (Post 58789963)
Jeffrey looked very good with Malkin. Working the give and go's. High hockey IQ on that kid. May not stick here, but he's got an NHL future ahead of him. .

I honestly think that's all any linemate needs to play with Malkin. If we actually give him a real shot to gain confidence and chemistry with Malkin, he might be a great fit there. It's obviously too early to tell for sure, but I see a lot of things I like.

GrouperTrooper 01-31-2013 08:48 PM

+ Shutout

Would like to see them work on getting Sid's line going. DJ is working on Malkin's line.
Lets sit Kunitz and try Clifford and Boychuk and whoever else.

jrolley325 01-31-2013 08:49 PM

easiest shutout vokoun will ever get. rangers are a one line team without callahan.

Frank Gallagher 01-31-2013 08:49 PM

+ Despres - Looked really good out there, not even taking that beauty into account.

+ Vokoun - LOVE the guy, he's smart.

+ Defense - not an amazing performance, but we did what we had to do.

+ Neal - Redirect was awesome

- Kunitz - :facepalm:

Lomez 01-31-2013 08:49 PM

Decent game by and large, but let's not get carried away, a couple post by the Rangers go the other way and this is a different result. Nonetheless, some little flashes of what we know the Pens are capable of.

+ Vokoun, great signing!


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