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-   -   All purpose Shawn Thornton Thread: Update: Out 7-10 days (Concussion) See post #125 (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1338781)

Colt.45Orr 02-01-2013 01:24 AM

All purpose Shawn Thornton Thread: Update: Out 7-10 days (Concussion) See post #125
 
Remember when your favourite faithful dog started to get a limp and you --as if all of a sudden-- realized just how old he had become? It happened to me a few years ago with my long-time buddy, who passed away only a year later.

I guess that is how I feel about Shawn Thornton in some ways after tonight. I'm suddenly more aware that he isn't going to be with us (NHL) much longer.

A few years ago I mentioned a few times that it would be nice if he could get the Brad May treatment in his final few years and not have to be the #1 heavyweight to take on all comers... but sometime after that it was like he turned back time and I forgot that he is getting really, really old for an enforcer.

It is tricky because it is a young man's position, and yet he has done it so well for so long but I'm reminded tonight that he is going to turn 36 before next season, his last with the Bruins. Most guys fizzle from the fight game before 30. Remember Sandy McCarty's career here.

I believe he is only 3 years older than Brashear, who seems ancient to me. Brashear had an aura of invincibility about him until Belak dropped him (concussion). A year later it was all she wrote for Brash's career.

I'm not sure when or how Thornton comes back from this concussion but, even if he rebounds brilliantly from it, he cannot continue to turn back father time on a nightly basis against the huge beasts he faces.

MacDermid isn't a heavyweight enforcer but could end up being a nice energy/grinder/scrapper. So who does that leave?

I'd really like to pick up Matt Kassian (6'5 -240pds) for cheap and carry him as a spare forward mentoring under Thornton for the next year. If he doesn't turn out then you likely didn't give up much in the first place. He is one of the nicest guys you will meet in all of pro hockey and is an excellent, clean and devastating hitter as well. About a decade younger than Thornton, he has a lot of life left in him.

This isn't a shot at Thornton, the guy should never buy a drink in Boston again and should be on NESN as soon as he hangs em up, but next year surely has to be his final year and it could end up being a rough finish getting there.

Thoughts?


**btw** not celebrating being right at all, but I had a baad feeling about tonight vs. Scott. Thornton did well surprising Boogaard but Scott obviously watched tape and knew what to avoid. People thought because Thornton hangs in with Orr and Orr beat Scott that, therefor, it was logical that Thornton and Scott would be close. But Colton Orr always does very well against really tall guys. Orr has freakishly long arms (used to be a very good soccer keeper) even for his height and can connect from distance, where as Thornton needs to get in close and hold on for dear life on big guys until he can get some jabs free... but will never do much damage.

Bi Coastal Bawse* 02-01-2013 01:30 AM

Um Donald Brashear was born in 1972
Shawn Thornton 1977

Colt.45Orr 02-01-2013 01:31 AM

I also wouldn't be opposed to picking up old P-Bruins friend Steve MacIntyre (6'6 -265)from the Pens organization for a period of time either. Not many guys want anything to do with him and I wouldn't want him in the line-up full time, but if the Leafs are going to dress Orr and friggen Frazer (6'5 245pds) and the Sabres are going to feel tough behind Scott then we need to trot out the nuke (Mac) in return.

*I realize that many here will not agree with my old-school way of thinking --don't let it ruin your day, I'm just giving my opinion.

westernhome 02-01-2013 01:32 AM

the awareness of concussions makes the job of an enforcer one we have to wonder about as far as how many years is a good idea to keep going

Colt.45Orr 02-01-2013 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhatsABruin (Post 58813715)
Um Donald Brashear was born in 1972
Shawn Thornton 1977

And Brashear has been retired for 3 years, no?

roflstomper 02-01-2013 01:35 AM

It's not always about winning the fight, and you're only making this thread because he lost one. Get over it, I'm sure he will.

Colt.45Orr 02-01-2013 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westernhome (Post 58813767)
the awareness of concussions makes the job of an enforcer one we have to wonder about as far as how many years is a good idea to keep going

How many hundreds of fights did Thornton have in jrs and the AHL on top of it all? They fought a lot more than guys now do. Funny, he was never his (NHL) teams top enforcer until he got to Boston. In Chicago they had a bunch of guys and in Anaheim he was considered by many a light heavy under Parros.

Colt.45Orr 02-01-2013 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roflstomper (Post 58813843)
It's not always about winning the fight, and you're only making this thread because he lost one. Get over it, I'm sure he will.

Brilliant deduction there champ. I made it pretty clear that the ass kicking he received reminded me that his career is winding down (and hence the thread). If he could "get over it" he would have, instead he had to leave the game with a concussion. Don't like to see Shawn have to deal with that after all he has done for us.

roflstomper 02-01-2013 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr (Post 58813949)
Brilliant deduction there champ. I made it pretty clear that the ass kicking he received reminded me that his career is winding down (and hence the thread). If he could "get over it" he would have, instead he had to leave the game with a concussion. Don't like to see Shawn have to deal with that after all he has done for us.


Everyone knows his times almost up, that's just common knowledge. It's the timing of this thread I have a problem with.

Bi Coastal Bawse* 02-01-2013 01:43 AM

Shawn will bounce back even Scott said he would.

Eennad142 02-01-2013 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr (Post 58813949)
Brilliant deduction there champ. I made it pretty clear that the ass kicking he received reminded me that his career is winding down (and hence the thread). If he could "get over it" he would have, instead he had to leave the game with a concussion. Don't like to see Shawn have to deal with that after all he has done for us.

Expecting Thornton to face off with Scott again in future is out of the question. If Thornton somehow manages to survive another showdown, is it called a moral victory? Thornton's physical well-being is at stake here now. If Scott is going to be hanging around on the bench in Buffalo for a couple of years, 'Big Mac' MacIntyre is the most immediate solution.

Bi Coastal Bawse* 02-01-2013 01:51 AM

Would rather have

Parros
Macgrattan
Kassian

doubt any are available and I doubt the Bruins even try to get one of these guys or a player like that. Would be a knee jerk reaction.

This team however does need to think about a future enforcer

dafoomie 02-01-2013 01:55 AM

Some of you can't wait to bury a guy before he's dead.

Mione134 02-01-2013 02:25 AM

So he got beat by a 6'8 scrub, and now all of a sudden his career is over?

Lawd...

trenton1 02-01-2013 02:28 AM

I think this loss was because of size, not age. Thornton seemed to peak as a fighter in his 30's rather than 20's like most. Thornton's fight 12 days ago against Rupp was masterful.

I think MacDermid should have stuck his nose out tonight. He's got to earn his way. He's either a fighter/disturber up here or an AHLer--hell, he can barely score down there. I don't give a **** if he's on a 2nd team PK in the AHL. He'll never do that for Boston as long as Bergy, Kelly, Paille and Marchand are here. MacDermid has shown me absolutely nothing. He's not that aggressive, can't handle the puck at the NHL level and he can barely score at the AHL level. He looks absolutely useless at the NHL level.

Alberta_OReilly_Fan 02-01-2013 02:30 AM

main reason our 4th line has been considered one of the best in the nhl isnt because thornton is considered one of the top fighters in the game... but rather that he can play a fairly regular shift for a goon. He shows up for fights... but he isnt anyone that intimidates the other team

in fact no one that is considered intimidating is really much of a hockey player at all these days. the john scotts of the world bounce around as waiver wire pickups for non playoff teams because they hurt the team that is unlucky enough to be stuck with them.

i love having guys like zdeno chara and milan lucic around. these guys truely intimidate the opposition and make us a championship caliber contender. even guys like mcquaid and campbell are very useful since they will drop the gloves when needed in the appropriate situations and handle themselves well.

if you can get me more of these guys... or another thornton that can play a regular shift then sign me up, but in no way do i want some meathead like another colton orr being brought back to town to waste a roster space for us. Whether or not John Scott can win a fight against Lane McDermid or not... has absolutely no relevance whether or not Buffalo will make the playoffs or whether we will. And sure as heck wont matter once the playoffs start.

I love OReilly when he was here. He had a rep as one of the toughest guys of his day, but he was also a first/second line stud too. Neely could intimidate as a fighter but he was way more intimidating as a 50 goal scorer that could beat the tar out of most people. Chris Pronger and Scott Stevens were never the top fighter in the NHL but they were way way way more intimidating to play against then Peter Worrell or Donald Brasher or Georges Laraque cause tough guys like this actually win you champtionships unlke goons.

If Thornton is on his way out... then I thank him for his service and wish him nothing but the best. Hope he doesnt have any brain issues. I want to see his spot be taken though by someone that can play a regular shift and I dont care of that someone is ranked in the top 20 best fighters or not. Just get us someone that can play who will also show up when needed for the fights and we will be fine {at least until guys like Chara and Lucic one day move on too}

BIG BAD BRUINS 02-01-2013 02:55 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Bmkdaqrg-8

MarshmontMcSlewfoot 02-01-2013 03:22 AM

This is dumb.

I have never been a 'huge' believer that Thornton was an amazing fighter/intimidator. BUt he had been trending upwards and winning most bouts against other guys who are in hte NHL because they fight. He lost once tonight. He had probably won his prior 10 fights to this.

Now if he is concussed that is different and I am not sure about his chances next time he drops the gloves. If he isn't he will be fine and should beat whoever drops them with him next.

But the guy has filled the role he has as a leader up until now. However, his linemates Paille and Campbell are very good and he needs to focus on playing good hockey. He has been very hit and miss this year.

westernhome 02-01-2013 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trenton1 (Post 58814661)
I think this loss was because of size, not age. Thornton seemed to peak as a fighter in his 30's rather than 20's like most. Thornton's fight 12 days ago against Rupp was masterful.

I think MacDermid should have stuck his nose out tonight. He's got to earn his way. He's either a fighter/disturber up here or an AHLer--hell, he can barely score down there. I don't give a **** if he's on a 2nd team PK in the AHL. He'll never do that for Boston as long as Bergy, Kelly, Paille and Marchand are here. MacDermid has shown me absolutely nothing. He's not that aggressive, can't handle the puck at the NHL level and he can barely score at the AHL level. He looks absolutely useless at the NHL level.

agree with this, MacDermid really brings nothing that this team needs, we have a number of guys that can play that are already in the lineup that are easily as intimidating as he is, and capable, if we are going to carry a 4 minutes a game kind of guy then it might as well be a top level enforcer, not a middle heavy that is middle of the pack at that

PepeBostones 02-01-2013 05:43 AM

I don't think it's the first time Thornton lost a fight. It's a lot more than just being a fighter. Everybody who's ever played hockey knows that little thing can do terrific damage. You're caught off balance, someone grabs or comes in and all of a sudden one lucky punch can be devastating. We've had some of the toughest and best fighters ever on our Bruins team through the years. I must say Terry O'Reilly was the best, Stan Jonathan, John Wensink, Wayne Cashman, Jay Miller, Lyndon Byers, Cam Neely.. I've seen O'Reilly lose a fight, Cashman lost, they all lost a few but not often. The game has changed alot, think of the team that had Orr, Sanderson, Green, Cashman, Awrey. The second waive was even more scary O'Reilly, Jonathan, Wensink, Cashman, Milbury. Then came Jay Miller (almost never lost), Byers, Neely, Plett. Those teams had 4-5 top heavyweights. No team can afford that anymore. Besides the players I have mentionen above were all great hockey players 20-30-40 goalscorers. Cam Neely very rarely lost a fight but I remember him being clocked with a lucky punch by Scott Kleinendorst of the Hartford WhalersThat's not to say John Scott was a lucky punch here. He was clearly the best fighter in this and the Bruins knew that Scott was going after either Milan Lucic or Scott Thornton. I think Scott took it upon himself to go with Scott so Milan didn't have to. I do think Milan is the best fighter clearly on the Bruins, but we can't afford to have him sit five minutes a game. I don't know who could be the most suitable replacement should Thornton not come back. We did see Matt Carkner who is supposed to be a real good heavyweighter but his knee's buckle from a couple of hard punches from Milan. You can't get a player who can play so well and also be a devastating fighter. My favorite fighter would Colton Orr, but he's far from playing like Shawn Thornton. Win or lose. The Bruins have never backed away from anybody and I'm sure they'll find the right guy. We just been blessed with the above mentioned players who really wore the Bruins shirt with pride and they could play and loved to fight too.
Oh, how I loved those guys whose heart had a big B inside. I hope Shawn comes back, but it'll be interesting to see the next game between the Bruins and the Sabres. In all fairness both players wanter to go and that's the way it goes.

TCL40 02-01-2013 05:53 AM

I know during the lockout Thornton made some rumbling about retiring. My guess is he is going to retire soon.

The beauty of Thornton is that he can play decent hockey (he probably wouldn't be in the NHL if he didn't play the enforcer role, but compared to other enforcers he has mad skills).

I would rather have a player like Thornton than a player like Scott. Thornton is useful to the team for more than just fighting.

Hopefully he recovers from his injury quickly, and will be back in the line up.

Fire Julien 02-01-2013 06:03 AM

We will be the targets as long as Chia doesn't get a heavyweight

Fire Julien 02-01-2013 06:06 AM

Parros is cooked
Quote:

Originally Posted by WhatsABruin (Post 58814161)
Would rather have

Parros
Macgrattan
Kassian

doubt any are available and I doubt the Bruins even try to get one of these guys or a player like that. Would be a knee jerk reaction.

This team however does need to think about a future enforcer


Kovi 02-01-2013 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr (Post 58813745)
*I realize that many here will not agree with my old-school way of thinking --don't let it ruin your day, I'm just giving my opinion.

Hey, sorry about your dog. thats rough. and regardless of what you feel, don't apologize^^. If people disagree, they will tell you, but put your opinion out and make no bones.

I think Shawn will wind down before too long. As someone said there were definitely whispers during the lockout.

I somewhat agree with you that we don't have the caliber of some of those pugilists....but I think collectively as a whole the Bruins do just fine in the "tough" department. I think last night Shawn just got dropped by a bigger guy. It happens, and kudos for him for taking it for the team.

Going forward the Bruins will either start to develop guys like McDermid, or they will search for talent in that area. They will address the issue. I don't think we have guys in the pipeline (other than what I mentioned, and I dont think McDermid isa "killer" ) but bringing in someone (like Scott) who lacks the "hockey skill" worries me. Although it's an important piece of the game...it shouldnt be our focus. Good, solid, hockey should be.

Short answer: other guys on the team need to step up. I"d rather have a difficult, tough to play against hockey team as a collective whole, than one goon that rides the bus up every once in a while.

edit: the Sabres were the tougher team last night (that is what I meant by "guys need to step up"....) we didnt answer them. at all. No one hit Vanek, no one skiddered Miller. no one answered the Hamilton and Bergeron hits.... we are a better team when as a whole we are kicking a ss. Last night that would have made a difference.

ODAAT 02-01-2013 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr (Post 58813591)
Remember when your favourite faithful dog started to get a limp and you --as if all of a sudden-- realized just how old he had become? It happened to me a few years ago with my long-time buddy, who passed away only a year later.

I guess that is how I feel about Shawn Thornton in some ways after tonight. I'm suddenly more aware that he isn't going to be with us (NHL) much longer.

A few years ago I mentioned a few times that it would be nice if he could get the Brad May treatment in his final few years and not have to be the #1 heavyweight to take on all comers... but sometime after that it was like he turned back time and I forgot that he is getting really, really old for an enforcer.

It is tricky because it is a young man's position, and yet he has done it so well for so long but I'm reminded tonight that he is going to turn 36 before next season, his last with the Bruins. Most guys fizzle from the fight game before 30. Remember Sandy McCarty's career here.

I believe he is only 3 years older than Brashear, who seems ancient to me. Brashear had an aura of invincibility about him until Belak dropped him (concussion). A year later it was all she wrote for Brash's career.

I'm not sure when or how Thornton comes back from this concussion but, even if he rebounds brilliantly from it, he cannot continue to turn back father time on a nightly basis against the huge beasts he faces.

MacDermid isn't a heavyweight enforcer but could end up being a nice energy/grinder/scrapper. So who does that leave?

I'd really like to pick up Matt Kassian (6'5 -240pds) for cheap and carry him as a spare forward mentoring under Thornton for the next year. If he doesn't turn out then you likely didn't give up much in the first place. He is one of the nicest guys you will meet in all of pro hockey and is an excellent, clean and devastating hitter as well. About a decade younger than Thornton, he has a lot of life left in him.

This isn't a shot at Thornton, the guy should never buy a drink in Boston again and should be on NESN as soon as he hangs em up, but next year surely has to be his final year and it could end up being a rough finish getting there.

Thoughts?


**btw** not celebrating being right at all, but I had a baad feeling about tonight vs. Scott. Thornton did well surprising Boogaard but Scott obviously watched tape and knew what to avoid. People thought because Thornton hangs in with Orr and Orr beat Scott that, therefor, it was logical that Thornton and Scott would be close. But Colton Orr always does very well against really tall guys. Orr has freakishly long arms (used to be a very good soccer keeper) even for his height and can connect from distance, where as Thornton needs to get in close and hold on for dear life on big guys until he can get some jabs free... but will never do much damage.

Thorty doesn`t have another 3-4 years left but that doesn`t concern me, what the biggest issue here or there was last night is there was absolutely no need to accept a scrap with Scott, a completely unnecessary invitation to accept.

Thornton`s on ice value is so much greater than Scott`s, I know pride/ego/braggin rights play into it but this was a lose lose right from the get go. Of course Sabres fans will be screaming with joy over the beatdown the great John Scott administered and we`d be doing, and have done the same for years here after successful Bruin scraps.

My opinion....CJ should have, unless Scott was running someone, instructed the boys not to bother with him. The ONLY Bruin who should be sparring with him in Chara and that isn`t happening, an even worse tradeoff


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