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-   -   Proposal: Washington - Toronto (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1338803)

Defense 02-01-2013 04:43 AM

Washington - Toronto
 
Is Ovechkin still untouchable? Does he still have it? I don't watch the Caps that much, but is it the captaincy that is pressure or does this guy need a change of scenery. He has had 4 different coaches in Washington, had 40 points in 31 games in the KHL this year so is it just a slow start due to the transition back to the NHL for a shortened season? I want to say I believe a coaching change, or GM change would happen or some moves by McPhee would be done before its considered the face of the franchise is traded.

A lot of fans have been proposing garbage for Ovechkin even though its true he's slumping and has an expensive lengthy contract. It got me thinking... He still is one of the most talented players in the world 27 years of age, and a change of scenery may get him going again.
One thing I was shocked to know is that the Caps are last place in the league right now with a 1-5-1 record. Last place. They have the chance to bomb for 1st overall Seth Jones or Nathan MacKinnon. Does McPhee think this is a playoff team or is it time for a quick rebuild in full stride?

If I were the Caps, I'd trade Ovechkin, grab a package of young prospects and picks. The Caps already have a lot of good prospects (Kuznetsov, Forsberg, Wilson, Holtby) and could really deepen the prospect pool with a trade of Ovechkin.

Is there any NHL team that will be willing to take on such a contract for a seem to be regressing player? Its a risky move, but Ovechkin is still an elite player. His work ethic has been questionable and his defensive game. I got this off the Caps board, Owner Leonsis calls Ovechkin out http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...o-play-better/ "He needs to play better."

Speaking as a Leafs fans I proposed this on my board and basically the majority didn't like the idea for us. The results of trading our futures for a win now motive has always backfired on us and the nightmares of moves in the 2000s are fresh in our minds. I think this could be a win - win. Ovechkin has 59 points in 51 playoff games, he has also burned our team with 42 points in 27 games with 23 goals so there is no question he can thrive under pressure in Toronto. He is built for being playing under the spotlight.

:caps
Morgan Rielly (5th overall 2012)
Tyler Biggs (22nd overall 2011)
Stuart Percy (25th overall 2011)
2013 1st round draft pick

:leafs
Alex Ovechkin ($9.5m)

Why do the Leafs do this? Its Ovechkin. Although, it is our highly touted prospect, may be the most exciting player we've drafted in decades, Morgan Rielly is an 18 year old blue chipper who is still 1 year or 2 away from stepping into the NHL. It will be a few more years before he is our number 1 puck mover. We do have Jake Gardiner in his place. All the players are on the move are developing in the CHL, so it does not hurt our farm but it weakens our prospect pool. Got to give to get. Ovechkin makes an immediate impact for us, helps us on the PP and is an immediate game changer and makes us a legit playoff team. We have just over 7 million in cap space, some room to start for Ovechkin. A lot of people underrate Phil Kessel's passing capabilities, he had 45 assists last season with Bozak as his centre, chemistry could work wonders with Ovechkin. Overall this makes Toronto a more attractive destination for free agents making a statement of going all in to win.

Leafs top 9 would look like
Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Ovechkin - Grabovski - Kulemin
JVR - Kadri - Frattin


Why does Washington do this? Its the equivalent of 4 1st rounders and they unload Ovechkins contract. Its a statement that its time to rebuild, although they would ice a competitive young team after a high pick in the 2013 draft and maybe a high 2014 draft for a quick turn around. This is quality and quantity together that helps solidify Washingtons prospect pool and puts their rebuild mode in full stride. Biggs I believe would be a good piece with Tom Wilson also coming up for the Caps as tough power forwards. And Percy and the 1st round pick are other quality pieces. Don't forget Washington do have some pretty looking prospects in Filip Forsberg and Yevgeni Kuznetsov coming up in the system so a player like MacKinnon or even Drouin would add in nicely or future Norris candidate Seth Jones along with Rielly would help lead the Caps to a potential cup win.

So Caps fans would you consider trading Ovechkin? Other fans; is he still untouchable and would this be a win - win trade if he was on the move?

Peter Petan 02-01-2013 05:08 AM

Lol @ Lupul playing on line 1 ahead of OV. Toronto fans will most likely reject this, which means they're learning their lesson from the kessel deal.

Man Bear Pig 02-01-2013 05:14 AM

With the way OV is playing, not sure what I'd give up for him. He's been less than impressive the past few years. Think the Leafs are better off holding onto their prospects and picks and stick to the plan. That proposed deal could turn into Kessel 2.0. The problem with OV is he's become predictable. He makes $9.5 million/per as well, makes it even worse. The production just isn't there.

Man Bear Pig 02-01-2013 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DandyEvandy9 (Post 58815229)
Lol @ Lupul playing on line 1 ahead of OV. Toronto fans will most likely reject this, which means they're learning their lesson from the kessel deal.

Actually, he probably would be. Kessel and OV are both shooters, they'd likely be separated and OV gets to play with his fellow Russian/Belorussian. It's not as if the first line plays way more minutes over the second line anyways. There are a thousand examples of great talents playing on the "second line".

a1xFREAKx72 02-01-2013 05:17 AM

getting rid of kessel maybe a good thing to alot of people but im kinda hoping he struggles and signs long term to similar money he is now making.now ovechkin is
a completely different nightmare to take on and would be a disaster long term.
washington will probably buy him out if noone is willing to take that contract.at his pace he will be hard pressed to hit 20-25 goals this yr and for 9.5 mil is rediculous.
he just doesnt seem to enjoy the game like he did for his first 3 years,he looks like he is going through the motions and i blame the monster contract since it started to decline after he signed it.money has ruined many great nhl players who had major potential..

Bourne Endeavor 02-01-2013 05:23 AM

Leafs would be stupid make this trade. Ovie has been awful and hinging your bet all on him is an excellent way for Toronto to recreate the Kessel trade, albeit worse.

Mr Writer 02-01-2013 05:36 AM

Who knows, but a change of scenery might be just what the Doc ordered....but it will have to be one seriously stacked team (and aseriously stacked team may not be able to absorb his caphit) and a GM with stones of steel to take that contract. Regardless, any upswing in the level of Ovi's play will only be temporary, his days as a 60/60 shooter are done. He's a 30/30 guy now. But lets hope with the Olympics fast approaching, perhaps Ovi becomes that 60/60 player again. Is he going grey?

Sergei Shirokov 02-01-2013 05:50 AM

Edit: Nvm

I think Washington would push for more myself as I think they still consider him the same player, but really this doesn't make sense for the Leafs as he really hasn't been any better than Kessel.

Dought Washington would do it though as they would maintain hope that he is still the player he once was, plus they probably don't want to take that big of a step back.

Really this is a tough deal to get a read on, who knows what Ovechkins real value is, if he returns to anywhere close to previous form I don't think this is enough, if he stays the player he is then it is probably fair value.

Vipers31 02-01-2013 06:07 AM

I don't think Ovechkin would be a guy that would go for futures. I'd expect more of a Hossa-for-Heatley kind of deal. But I'd expect that to be a little further down the road, at the very least.

The Angry Teatowel 02-01-2013 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor (Post 58815307)
Leafs would be stupid make this trade. Ovie has been awful and hinging your bet all on him is an excellent way for Toronto to recreate the Kessel trade, albeit worse.

Actually, given that the Leafs wouldn't be giving up any proven assets, the Caps would be exceptionally stupid to do this.

IF Ovechkin were to be traded, it would either to be a whole load more futures than that or with at least with one proven and desirable player. I think it would be more akin to the Nash to NYR trade, with a bit more coming from the team getting Ovechkin.

Mind you, with his contract at this moment in time, it's probably a non-starter.

bernmeister 02-01-2013 06:57 AM

The premise that Ovie departure for young assets (higher pick aside) helps Cap rebuild is solid in theory, contingent in reality on the return.

Hard to say what is best combo for Leafs, or other teams.

Could see some packages morphing into Kessel 2.0; could see others = win-win.

I think a three way here would help add flexibility making a w-w more likely.

I see Ovie usually winding up with Leafs, based on that huge # and cap tightening.

legendinblue 02-01-2013 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor (Post 58815307)
Leafs would be stupid make this trade. Ovie has been awful and hinging your bet all on him is an excellent way for Toronto to recreate the Kessel trade, albeit worse.

Yep.

No from the Leafs.

Kris Chreider 02-01-2013 07:19 AM

This reminds me of the pre lockout Leafs.

This trade utterly destroys any chance of staying competitive long term.

I guess it could work if the Leafs had a win now mentality but they're far from being a playoff team yet. Just let the prospects develop.

Bourne Endeavor 02-01-2013 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Angry Teatowel (Post 58815589)
Actually, given that the Leafs wouldn't be giving up any proven assets, the Caps would be exceptionally stupid to do this.

IF Ovechkin were to be traded, it would either to be a whole load more futures than that or with at least with one proven and desirable player. I think it would be more akin to the Nash to NYR trade, with a bit more coming from the team getting Ovechkin.

Mind you, with his contract at this moment in time, it's probably a non-starter.

In theory maybe, however it would depend on their perception of Ovie's decline. Why I believe it is stupid for Toronto is the possibility that first becomes a top five. Toronto would only be stacked on paper but on ice performance indicates otherwise. Now I do not see Ovie being traded any time soon, although that is more to do with his continued decline and what may become a horrid contract.

blueNwhite89 02-01-2013 08:04 AM

Big no from the Leafs.

Zbynek 02-01-2013 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMLblue75 (Post 58816549)
Big no from the Leafs.

Seriously HFboards?

......if Ovechkin is ever traded (on the 0.001% chance this happens), it would be for a couple of roster players (Top-6 winger and Top-4 D-man), futures, 1st+.

It's hysterical that Toronto fans genuinely believe they could trade futures and futures alone for Ovechkin.

Ultra facepalm.

legendinblue 02-01-2013 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zbynek (Post 58816713)
Seriously HFboards?

......if Ovechkin is ever traded (on the 0.001% chance this happens), it would be for a couple of roster players (Top-6 winger and Top-4 D-man), futures, 1st+.

It's hysterical that Toronto fans genuinely believe they could trade futures and futures alone for Ovechkin.

Ultra facepalm.

For a 60 point player? Good luck with that. Ovechkin has been living off his past for quite some time now.

Man Bear Pig 02-01-2013 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zbynek (Post 58816713)
Seriously HFboards?

......if Ovechkin is ever traded (on the 0.001% chance this happens), it would be for a couple of roster players (Top-6 winger and Top-4 D-man), futures, 1st+.

It's hysterical that Toronto fans genuinely believe they could trade futures and futures alone for Ovechkin.

Ultra facepalm.

Hysterical? Look at the dropoff in production. Look. There are major, MAJOR red flags when a guy goes from 109 points, to 85 points, to 65 points and so far has 3 points in 7 games this season. Watch him play, the man looks lost out on the ice. That "force" that was once the greatest sniper on the planet doesn't appear to be there anymore. He's becoming invisible. Even last night, he scored his first goal of the season but other than a weak goal that he scored, he was an absolute non-factor. He was as invisible as a fourth liner. It's not that Leafs fans believe they could trade futures for OV, it's that they don't want to. Tell me something, how many GM's want a 65 point(or less) player making $9.5 million a year? because that's the reality. You can't say he's a hundred point guy when he hasn't done it in years. This is a "what have you done for me lately" league and business.

pspot 02-01-2013 08:37 AM

was thinking about this last night, doubt it would ever happen but

Ovy, Green to Det for Zett, Franzen

probably needs pieces to round it out on both sides but what woudl fans of these teams think of this?

was thinking Swedes to Wsh with Backstrom and Ovie to Det with hopes Dats could get him going again

The Angry Teatowel 02-01-2013 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legendinblue (Post 58816947)
For a 60 point player? Good luck with that. Ovechkin has been living off his past for quite some time now.

Actually, it was 65 points in 78 games and 38 of those 65 points were goals. Dude still has 341 goals in 560 NHL games (and 30 goals in 51 play-off games) and if he can get back a better standard of play, which is not impossible, he is still one of the most valuable players in the league.

(All this coming from a neutral, by the way)

caribouPINE 02-01-2013 09:00 AM

If Ovechkin was available for free, as in, just take him and his contract and don't give Washington anything, I STILL wouldn't want him.

Thats $8M+ sucking up cap space for a long, long time when we need to fill other holes first (#1C, another good Dman, possibly #1 goalie, etc).

Not to mention Ovy is a shadow of his former self. Pierre McGuire this morning even said he's "lost a gear, if not a gear and a half" from what he used to be. Not trying to pimp up Pierre but my point is a lot of hockey people see this- he's not nearly as good as he used to be.

roboninja 02-01-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zbynek (Post 58816713)
Seriously HFboards?

......if Ovechkin is ever traded (on the 0.001% chance this happens), it would be for a couple of roster players (Top-6 winger and Top-4 D-man), futures, 1st+.

It's hysterical that Toronto fans genuinely believe they could trade futures and futures alone for Ovechkin.

Ultra facepalm.

It's called reality. Simply assuming a player is great based on past performances gets you in big trouble. Look at how he is playing now.

I personally would not even want Ovi on my team. He does not currently bring enough to justify that insane $9.5M contract. I would not even trade our first, let alone some blue-chip prospects.

The thing you are right on is that there is a 0.001% chance he gets traded. But I think that has more to do with the fact few if any would want him currently.

waitin425 02-01-2013 09:21 AM

Montreal jumps in with;

Tinordi
Collberg
Bourque (salary)
1st 2013

Matt Damon 02-01-2013 09:29 AM

Ovechkins value is really hard to predict. On one hand I still think he'd get a lot of interest from a lot of teams based on what he's done and his age. But then when I look at that contract I'm not so sure many teams would want to take that gamble. Really strange case.

I'd actually think if the Leafs did for whatever reason want him that it'd be a deal based around Kessel for Ovechkin. Couldn't see Nonis making the same mistake Burke made and trading a good chunk of the Leafs future.

Jetsfareast 02-01-2013 09:36 AM

Little,, postma, telegin, 2014st, 2013 3rd

Ovie plus share of 2MiL of his salary yearly starting 2014


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