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-   -   Flames Fire Sale! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1338869)

The Hendog 02-01-2013 08:24 AM

Flames Fire Sale!
 
The only untouchables in my opinion are anyone under 25 years of age, Gio and Glencross.

It is finally time to blow this thing up and they can all go - Iggy, Mikka, JBo, Cammy, Tanguay etc. All of them. Even all the new guys to - Wideman & Hudler. The Flames are already tanking - might as well do it right and maximize the future.

Flames would likely want draft picks and prospects. They would also likely be willing to take on salary if need be to make the deal happen.

Stryker Island 02-01-2013 08:27 AM

Why would you trade Wideman and Hudler, they've been two of the best players on the ice.

Everything else, I agree.

Dolph Ziggler 02-01-2013 08:30 AM

I thought it was against the law for Calgary to rebuild.

Gary83* 02-01-2013 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hendog (Post 58818377)
The only untouchables in my opinion are anyone under 25 years of age, Gio and Glencross.

It is finally time to blow this thing up and they can all go - Iggy, Mikka, JBo, Cammy, Tanguay etc. All of them. Even all the new guys to - Wideman & Hudler. The Flames are already tanking - might as well do it right and maximize the future.

Flames would likely want draft picks and prospects. They would also likely be willing to take on salary if need be to make the deal happen.

I would only really move Kipper, Iginla, Cammy (if the deal is right)

Teams don't intentionally tank (the way you're suggesting)

Move the older, expiring guys, you don't trade away FA's that you just committed long term to, that's certainly a good way to get players to avoid signing in Calgary.

caribouPINE 02-01-2013 08:34 AM

This should have already happened... but instead they went the route of acquiring Cammy, and signing Wideman/Hudler.

This situation reminds me so much of the Leafs after the lockout. Trying desparately to remain compeititve, while everyone knew the rebuild should have started.

Calgary still has a bunch of good/decent trading chips however, them management/ownership actually wanting to rebuild is another story.

I Hate Chris Butler 02-01-2013 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Inglorious One (Post 58818559)
I thought it was against the law for Calgary to rebuild.

It is! Doesn't stop the daily "BLOW IT UP!" threads though.

The Hendog 02-01-2013 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary83 (Post 58818671)
I would only really move Kipper, Iginla, Cammy (if the deal is right)

Teams don't intentionally tank (the way you're suggesting)

Move the older, expiring guys, you don't trade away FA's that you just committed long term to, that's certainly a good way to get players to avoid signing in Calgary.

You are right and I agree

I am just overreacting after a terrible loss last night

Tripod 02-01-2013 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caribouPINE (Post 58818707)
This should have already happened... but instead they went the route of acquiring Cammy, and signing Wideman/Hudler.

This situation reminds me so much of the Leafs after the lockout. Trying desparately to remain compeititve, while everyone knew the rebuild should have started.

Calgary still has a bunch of good/decent trading chips however, them management/ownership actually wanting to rebuild is another story.

This is such a true statement. If you are confident that you can get 2-4 free agents to fill roles, they Calgary should trade as much as they can for futures. Getting 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders this year would be the BEST year to do it with such a deep draft. Imagine:
Iginla-1st, prospect, mid pick
Cammy-1st, 3rd
JBo-1st
other guys...you could get 2nd rounders or prospects.
They should trade 5-7 guys...rip the bandaid off quick, then try and re-load at UFA time. If they can't lure some big name, go the Florida route and sign the next tier guys to short deals, and sell them off at the next deadline...all while stockpiling high picks AND try and land 1-3 legit big named guys.

Gary83* 02-01-2013 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hendog (Post 58818939)
You are right and I agree

I am just overreacting after a terrible loss last night

I don't blame you, I turned the game off. This core has done the exact same thing for years now, for that reason I'd be looking to move the guys I listed.

digdug41982 02-01-2013 08:47 AM

The Blueprint

Trade Kipper somewhere for a top prospect or 1st rounder. Trade our 7th back to us for Emery. Leave everything else the same. Start Emery every game or close to it. Take MacKinnon with the 1st overall pick. Sign or trade for a goalie in the offseason.

Rebuild=complete

You'd be in the playoffs next season.

Fire Julien 02-01-2013 09:00 AM

Tim Jackman and Akim Aliu for Chris Bourque, Craig Cunningham and Tommy Cross

100 Third Graders 02-01-2013 09:07 AM

You just got to love people hitting the panic button after 5 games.

The Flames aren't going to blow it up. Get the notion out of your head and learn to pay attention, the Flames have stated on multiple occasion that they are not going to do a scorched earth rebuild. They are going to try and remain competitive while trying to rebuild through the draft.

You might see a secondary player or two moved and you might see played who are UFAs in the summer be moved, but they aren't going to get rid of everyone.

barrytrotzsneck 02-01-2013 09:07 AM

I was just talking about this with Adam Proteau. Both of us agreed the best time to have traded Iginla and Kipper was last year, around the time Feaster made the "we need them to win the cup!!" speech. It's not too late, though.

Calgary's not in great shape organizationally...prospect pool is weak for as long as they've been a bad team. This is a good opportunity to make that right. Part out Iginla, Cammalleri, Kipper and Bouwmeester for young players\prospects, and you're looking at a St Louis style rebuild.

Yeah, you may be bad for a couple of more years, but it's not like you're good now, and things are likely going to get worse before they get better anyway.

OCPenguin 02-01-2013 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 (Post 58819159)
The Blueprint

Trade Kipper somewhere for a top prospect or 1st rounder. Trade our 7th back to us for Emery. Leave everything else the same. Start Emery every game or close to it. Take MacKinnon with the 1st overall pick. Sign or trade for a goalie in the offseason.

Rebuild=complete

You'd be in the playoffs next season.

IMO, you need an influx of young talent. The farm system is pretty dried up and you have contracts on that roster that make little sense. You have some veterans with alot of experience that other teams will gladly take on for prospects and picks, which is what Calgary needs. Doing what you are saying won't get you into the play-offs next year IMO.

I'd see what you can get for Iggy, Hudler, JayBo, Kippy, Stempy, maybe Tanguay and consider dealing them if you fetch the right price. I'd hold onto Glencross (even though he would fetch a nice return), Cam ad Baertschi for starters.

Of course, just an opionion, but you are farther away from making the play-offs than you suggest.

100 Third Graders 02-01-2013 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc (Post 58820019)
I was just talking about this with Adam Proteau. Both of us agreed the best time to have traded Iginla and Kipper was last year, around the time Feaster made the "we need them to win the cup!!" speech. It's not too late, though.

Calgary's not in great shape organizationally...prospect pool is weak for as long as they've been a bad team. This is a good opportunity to make that right. Part out Iginla, Cammalleri, Kipper and Bouwmeester for young players\prospects, and you're looking at a St Louis style rebuild.

Yeah, you may be bad for a couple of more years, but it's not like you're good now, and things are likely going to get worse before they get better anyway.

The Flames prospect pool has gone from bad to middle of the pack in the last couple years.

And the team is better than their record indicates. If Kiprusoff was playing decent they would probably be over .500 right now.

Hawkaholic 02-01-2013 09:10 AM

I wouldn't mind Tanguay in Chicago, also wouldn't mind Kipper, but the price would be too high.

Halifaxhab* 02-01-2013 09:11 AM

TANK! TANK! TANK! TANK!

Sorry, just wanting that 2nd rd pick to be as good as possible.

kasper11 02-01-2013 09:12 AM

You have to wonder when Calgary will see the writing on the wall...every year they get off to a bad start, then win enough games to come close to the playoffs. But anyone who isn't management/ownership can tell that there are too many holes and not enough resources to patch them.

That said, they have a major problem with NTC/NMC as they gave them out like candy. This will diminish the value of most of their assets by limiting the suitors.

The team should focus on moving:
Iginla
Kipprusoff
Bouwmeester (retain salary to make him more attractive. admit next year is a rebuild year and you don't need the cap room)
Babchuk
Sarich
Cammalari

You can get some key pieces for these players while gaining flexibility. You can only count on Iginla/Kipprusoff for so long.

conooper 02-01-2013 09:13 AM

I think this is perfect time for Iginla to move on. No better team would be... the Pens.

A good defensive prospect, probably Maata and a conditional pick. 2nd becomes a 1st if he resigns with the Pens.

To me, it's a win win. It's perfect for the Pens to bring in a veteran leader that can perform and give him a couple years hopefully to win a cup. Plus for the Flames, it gives them a solid prospect in Maata and in this year's draft, it's so deep the value of the 1st round pick is pretty high.

kasper11 02-01-2013 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat (Post 58820111)
The Flames prospect pool has gone from bad to middle of the pack in the last couple years.

And the team is better than their record indicates. If Kiprusoff was playing decent they would probably be over .500 right now.

The team isn't bad, but it isn't great either. And there is no way that the Flames can retain the current lineup while also adding enough pieces to take it to the next level. They don't have enough prospects that they can move some to bring in players which leaves the free agent market. As of now the team has $15.5M in cap room next year, without Iginla and Backlund, who would probably cost $8M plus to re-sign. That leaves you with $7.5M to replace other free agents and bring in new talent. Not a lot of money.

The question for Calgary ownership and management is do you want to keep being "not bad" until Kipper/Iginla retire, or are you willing to lose now in order to remake the roster? Bring in young players, create payroll flexibility and you will have a much better chance of winning down the line.

McTank 02-01-2013 09:27 AM

Leopold+Catanacci+Brennan+Adam+2nd for wideman

100 Third Graders 02-01-2013 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kasper11 (Post 58820525)
The team isn't bad, but it isn't great either. And there is no way that the Flames can retain the current lineup while also adding enough pieces to take it to the next level. They don't have enough prospects that they can move some to bring in players which leaves the free agent market. As of now the team has $15.5M in cap room next year, without Iginla and Backlund, who would probably cost $8M plus to re-sign. That leaves you with $7.5M to replace other free agents and bring in new talent. Not a lot of money.

The question for Calgary ownership and management is do you want to keep being "not bad" until Kipper/Iginla retire, or are you willing to lose now in order to remake the roster? Bring in young players, create payroll flexibility and you will have a much better chance of winning down the line.

The question I have is why are people around here unable to grasp the notion that a team won't just lay down and give up? They are rebuilding through the draft while trying to be somewhat entertaining.

GordieHoweHatTrick 02-01-2013 09:37 AM

How is Kipper playing? Would love him on the Maple Leafs if the price was right

100 Third Graders 02-01-2013 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick (Post 58821213)
How is Kipper playing? Would love him on the Maple Leafs if the price was right

He's not. He is the #1 reason the Flames are even under .500 at the moment. He was the biggest reason they lost last night and IMO the only really good game he had was against the Canucks.

mpp9 02-01-2013 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OurGocIsAnAwesomeGoc (Post 58820019)
I was just talking about this with Adam Proteau. Both of us agreed the best time to have traded Iginla and Kipper was last year, around the time Feaster made the "we need them to win the cup!!" speech. It's not too late, though.

Calgary's not in great shape organizationally...prospect pool is weak for as long as they've been a bad team. This is a good opportunity to make that right. Part out Iginla, Cammalleri, Kipper and Bouwmeester for young players\prospects, and you're looking at a St Louis style rebuild.

Yeah, you may be bad for a couple of more years, but it's not like you're good now, and things are likely going to get worse before they get better anyway.

Exactly. This draft is stupid deep in the 1st and 2nd rounds. Getting three additional 1st round picks and top prospects on D and they're well on their way.

I'd offer a young roster forward+Maatta/Harrington/Pouliot+1st without blinking for Iggy. Only prospects I wouldn't deal are Morrow+Despres+Bennett.

Jaybo and Kipper would each bring back a 1st and a premium prospect as well IMO.


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