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-   -   *ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1338939)

spiny norman 02-01-2013 10:02 AM

*ALL* Luongo Talk (News/Speculation/Rumors/Proposals)
 
Please continue.

Previous thread: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1333825

StringerBell 02-01-2013 10:07 AM

To answer the "why trade him at all" question, management and most fans think Schneider will be able to provide the team with elite goaltending like Luongo has, except he's 7 years younger. Seven years of elite goaltending is worth more than whatever the disparity in their value is, as Leafs fans should be well aware by now.

Bleach Clean 02-01-2013 10:07 AM

Why trade him at all? He wants out.


Pretty simple.

93gilmour93 02-01-2013 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean (Post 58822531)
Why trade him at all? He wants out.


Pretty simple.

Exactly. It's like some people don't know that Luongo asked to be traded.

daveleaf 02-01-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StringerBell (Post 58822513)
To answer the "why trade him at all" question, management and most fans think Schneider will be able to provide the team with elite goaltending like Luongo has, except he's 7 years younger. Seven years of elite goaltending is worth more than whatever the disparity in their value is, as Leafs fans should be well aware by now.

Your window is now and the next couple-not seven years from now.

Peter Griffin 02-01-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean (Post 58822531)
Why trade him at all? He wants out.

I'm not convinced he does. I think he just wants a resolution to the situation whether he remains in Vancouver as the #1 or moves on elsewhere.

doorman 02-01-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean (Post 58822531)
Why trade him at all? He wants out.


Pretty simple.

in response to the previous thread.

Like I said, to LiferLeafer, it was stated by some, so i decided to offer a different opinion on what could happen. It was put up to generate discussion. Is it likely, I don't believe it is at all. I think Lou should have probably been traded already, odds are the offers don't get better, note I said odds. He is less valueable when he "has' to be moved, IMO. Also, I was just simply pointing out 1A/1A situatuions don't last long term, there can be only one, lol.

Lonny Bohonos 02-01-2013 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveleaf (Post 58822765)
Your window is now and the next couple-not seven years from now.

Good grief.

What is all this window non sense?

NYVanfan 02-01-2013 10:17 AM

so much conjecture in this thread. but that's ok.
vainly trying to determine what we've established as facts, as much as that's possible ...

1. The Canucks cannot keep both goalies beyond this summer, barring some crazy moves that I think we can agree have <1% chance of happening.

2. The Canucks have stated (and thusfar shown) they're fine going with both goalies for this season if the right deal doesn't come around.

3. Gillis has a high asking price for Luongo (best guess is good roster player / good prospect / good pick, with definition of "good" being up for debate.)

4. Both goalies have been as professional about the situation as could be expected (Luongo especially so.) As for what's really going on in their heads and how much the situation is impacting the room, that's conjecture, but it's fair to say it could be an issue. However, I'd say all signs thusfar point to it being a minor one, given that goaltending has been the least of their issues.

Admittendly, #4 is straying pretty far from fact, as is #3 frankly ...
Anyone else want to throw some out?

the other point I think is interesting for debate is this concept of "anointing the #1." What determines that? The amount of $ paid? The guy who started the last playoff game? I think Canuck brass have shown they'll go with whatever guy gives the best show at winning (hence 3 in a row for each in this young season.) And IMO, going w Schneids in the last PO game was more this than the grand passing of the baton that so many like to colour it as...

daveleaf 02-01-2013 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos (Post 58822921)
Good grief.

What is all this window non sense?

Honestly!

Liferleafer 02-01-2013 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYVanfan (Post 58823019)
so much conjecture in this thread. but that's ok.
vainly trying to determine what we've established as facts, as much as that's possible ...

1. The Canucks cannot keep both goalies beyond this summer, barring some crazy moves that I think we can agree have <1% chance of happening.

2. The Canucks have stated (and thusfar shown) they're fine going with both goalies for this season if the right deal doesn't come around.

3. Gillis has a high asking price for Luongo (best guess is good roster player / good prospect / good pick, with definition of "good" being up for debate.)

4. Both goalies have been as professional about the situation as could be expected (Luongo especially so.) As for what's really going on in their heads and how much the situation is impacting the room, that's conjecture, but it's fair to say it could be an issue. However, I'd say all signs thusfar point to it being a minor one, given that goaltending has been the least of their issues.

Admittendly, #4 is straying pretty far from fact, as is #3 frankly ...
Anyone else want to throw some out?

the other point I think is interesting for debate is this concept of "anointing the #1." What determines that? The amount of $ paid? The guy who started the last playoff game? I think Canuck brass have shown they'll go with whatever guy gives the best show at winning (hence 3 in a row for each in this young season -- and IMO, going w Schneids in the last PO game was more this than the grand passing of the baton that so many like to colour it as...)

I agree with point 1 and 2 100%. Point 3 is an unknown although i do believe the asking price is high. I think the price lowers dramatically in the offseason as using your point 1, they kind of HAVE to move him at that point.

As to point 4, nobody can say how either guy feels now, or will feel later.

Lonny Bohonos 02-01-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveleaf (Post 58823053)
Honestly!

Honestly what? Do you have some sort of crystal ball that tells you the canucks future?

Sterling31 02-01-2013 10:31 AM

Smart on the Canucks. Showcase him (it still doesn't affect the team - if he is winning) Schneider is young and will be in soon enough - and hungry.

A playoff ready team will give you a decent return at the deadline.

Bleach Clean 02-01-2013 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Griffin (Post 58822783)
I'm not convinced he does. I think he just wants a resolution to the situation whether he remains in Vancouver as the #1 or moves on elsewhere.


I don't see it this way. He is going to eventually move. For a player to come to management like he has, to turn around and be OK with staying, It's just not reasonable IMO. Schneider is the guy. That's why they were able to sign him in the summer. Without that commitment, he doesn't sign.


I know people would like to believe it's a toss up, but it's not, Lu will move. The only question is when...

White Goodman 02-01-2013 10:37 AM

We need a better title. It's a shame we used all the James Bond movies already.

Alflives* 02-01-2013 10:38 AM

Luongo's cap hit being higher than his salary (in future years) actually adds to his value in trade to lowers salary teams. Florida, for example, could acquire several of these (toxic) contracts and make it to the cap floor, but only have actual salary of 15 to 25 million.

NYVanfan 02-01-2013 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleach Clean (Post 58823709)
I don't see it this way. He is going to eventually move. For a player to come to management like he has, to turn around and be OK with staying, It's just not reasonable IMO. Schneider is the guy. That's why they were able to sign him in the summer. Without that commitment, he doesn't sign.


I know people would like to believe it's a toss up, but it's not, Lu will move. The only question is when...

maybe
but i still dont believe this to be a certainty

if the offers for Luo suck, but he's getting a really sweet Schneids offer, you dont think he'll take it?
what signs point to the relationship btw Luo and the club being un-mendable? (insofar as it's even broken...)

doorman 02-01-2013 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liferleafer (Post 58823401)
I agree with point 1 and 2 100%. Point 3 is an unknown although i do believe the asking price is high. I think the price lowers dramatically in the offseason as using your point 1, they kind of HAVE to move him at that point.

As to point 4, nobody can say how either guy feels now, or will feel later.

Agreed, except on point #4, I guarantee that in their heads both guys Feel they are the Numberr 1 or should be. You know why i think this, because without that mindset they aren't number ones, IMO.

blankall 02-01-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos (Post 58822921)
Good grief.

What is all this window non sense?


It's not nonsense.

Your team relies heavily on the Sedins. They're 32 now. Their play will drop off as they get older.

doorman 02-01-2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonny Bohonos (Post 58823447)
Honestly what? Do you have some sort of crystal ball that tells you the canucks future?

unless you are a fan of the Detroit red wings recently time has shown that after a window opens it does close. This is not a slight against the Nucks, but for the most part no team except Det. has been a perenial contender over the last 20 yrs.

ginner classic 02-01-2013 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doorman (Post 58822803)
in response to the previous thread.

Like I said, to LiferLeafer, it was stated by some, so i decided to offer a different opinion on what could happen. It was put up to generate discussion. Is it likely, I don't believe it is at all. I think Lou should have probably been traded already, odds are the offers don't get better, note I said odds. He is less valueable when he "has' to be moved, IMO. Also, I was just simply pointing out 1A/1A situatuions don't last long term, there can be only one, lol.

Richter Beezer
Fuhr Moog

Bleach Clean 02-01-2013 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYVanfan (Post 58824041)
maybe
but i still dont believe this to be a certainty

if the offers for Luo suck, but he's getting a really sweet Schneids offer, you dont think he'll take it?
what signs point to the relationship btw Luo and the club being un-mendable? (insofar as it's even broken...)



The fact that Luongo approached Gillis and not the other way around. He wants out. They used this to sign Schneider. How do you go and trade Schneider now? Schneider signed based on the premise that he would be the #1 here eventually, how do you explain that this was a fantasy in Schneider's own mind, and not based on reality?


It's not about broken relationships, it's about there being a clear indication from management on down that Schneider is the guy moving forward. That hasn't changed. The offers for Luongo don't matter. Gillis will trade Luongo regardless.

Bleach Clean 02-01-2013 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blankall (Post 58824397)
It's not nonsense.

Your team relies heavily on the Sedins. They're 32 now. Their play will drop off as they get older.

Quote:

Originally Posted by doorman (Post 58824401)
unless you are a fan of the Detroit red wings recently time has shown that after a window opens it does close. This is not a slight against the Nucks, but for the most part no team except Det. has been a perenial contender over the last 20 yrs.



The window is largely dependant on shrewd management more than any one player. Usually, the teams that are able to repeatedly make the playoffs are the teams with great management that finds a way. Yes, drafting guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg helps a lot, but it is not the determinant to a winning team. NJ, for instance, finds a way to be competitive year after year without top picks.


It's management and player transactions. There are teams out there that don't have Sedin level talents on their team that are still strong contenders for the cup. St. Louis comes to mind as being one. No one on BOS scored above 60~ points during their cup year, an anomaly for all prior cup winners, yet they won and are viewed as a strong team.


The identity of the Canucks is slowly changing. It's up to Gillis now to find supplemental pieces to ensure the transition. A lot of that will come down to what he gets for the Luongo trade, in fact.

Alflives* 02-01-2013 10:55 AM

[QUOTE=Bleach Clean;58824485 Gillis will trade Luongo regardless.[/QUOTE]

Tuuka Rask is playing poorly in Boston. He does not appear to be a real #1. Schnieder is from Boston. If the Bruin's GM offered Lucic for Schnieder + , MG would make that deal. Trading Luongo is not an absolute.

doorman 02-01-2013 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginner classic (Post 58824475)
Richter Beezer
Fuhr Moog

All situations that resulted in one of the goalies moving, Moog walked out on cup winning Edm. to play for Team Canada. and this was in a time when less players walked out on teams.


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