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-   -   Does NHL Fighting Lead Too Concussions? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1339231)

Afam* 02-01-2013 04:14 PM

Does NHL Fighting Lead Too Concussions?
 
I was watching Felger interview Thornton, two days ago before yesterday's game and he was asking Thornton about his fights and so fact. Immediately i looked at Thorton face and saw how bruised up it was, immediately thought too myself, should players in the Nhl stop fighting because it might lead too concussion. Should fighting be banned. What a weird coincidence that Thornton got concussed last night against the Sabres. What a shame.

flannelman 02-01-2013 04:17 PM

fighting can cause a concussion.

basically, anytime a brain bashes into a skull a person can get concussed.

a good resource for you may be here: http://www.healtheast.org/bethesda/o...ncussions.html

I don't think hockey should ban fighting.

Kate08 02-01-2013 04:18 PM

Yes fighting leads to concussions.

So does hitting, checking, boarding, tripping over the blue line, slew footing, and getting hit in the head with a puck.

SpeedyLazaro 02-01-2013 04:19 PM

it could lead too concussion, but it could lead two a great bout.. it could also lead to a broken hand

Afam* 02-01-2013 04:21 PM

Good read. Thanks.

smithformeragent 02-01-2013 04:24 PM

I don't think that banning fighting is the answer, but I could really do without the enforcer role. I like to watch a guy like Ference, McQuaid, Campbell, Horton or Lucic drop the gloves, but watching Thornton and the opponent's 12th forward go at it does absolutely nothing for me.

I liked KPD's idea of reducing the number of players that teams can suit up by one in an effort to eliminate the enforcer. Teams would have a tough decision, as in the case of the Bruins a guy like Paille who kills penalties is much more valuable than a guy who fights.

Side note, have teams always dressed three forward lines or did it used to be just three? I know the old NHL games on Genesis had only three lines, but I wasn't sure if that was just a way to group the forwards and defensemen neatly.

DOGSTARMAN 02-01-2013 04:39 PM

>>Does NHL Fighting Lead Too Concussions?
I was watching Felger interview Thornton, two days ago before yesterday's game and he was asking Thornton about his fights and so fact. Immediately i looked at Thorton face and saw how bruised up it was, immediately thought too myself, should players in the Nhl stop fighting because it might lead too concussion. Should fighting be banned. What a weird coincidence that Thornton got concussed last night against the Sabres. What a shame.

:help:

TCL40 02-01-2013 05:39 PM

Yes it can lead to concussion.

I am not a fan of the staged fight, but admit I enjoy a spontaneous fight that sparks up in the course of play.

I would still enjoy hockey if fighting of any sort was more harshly penalized to the point that it is banned. Not sure that is the way to go as far as the league is concerned. These guys play hockey for a living and some like Thornton play it in the enforcer role. They understand the risks.

Alan Ryan 02-01-2013 05:42 PM

The NHL has been making an effort to reduce head injuries in the game, as it should. Ending Marc Savard's career prematurely with a cheap blow to the head tells you all you need to know.

Penalties and suspensions are now handed out at an unprecedented rate for blows to the head.

But the NHL still looks the other way when it comes to fighting. A hockey fight is a series of intentional blows to the head with intent to injure. There is no other way to interpret it.

This is the height of hypocrisy and the biggest stain on a great game. :shakehead

MarshmontMcSlewfoot 02-01-2013 06:14 PM

Of course it does. Bare knuckle fights are illlegal everywhere.

Fact is staged fights should be eliminated. But you can't remove them without hurting hte players inability to police themselves.

I don't mind emotional hockey fights bourne out of the heat of competition. But I don't care much for staged goon fights.

I don't want any stupidly excessive penalties for fighting. But I don't mind if it becomes a game misconduct and 1 game suspension.

Morris Wanchuk 02-01-2013 06:32 PM

Yes it does but these players know it and I will continue to enjoy it.

smithformeragent 02-01-2013 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk (Post 58849553)
Yes it does but these players know it and I will continue to enjoy it.

Fighting or alcohol?

:cf:

:cheers:

Rookie Chargers 02-01-2013 07:04 PM

My beef with fighting and it is with this one. Is that somebody wanted a fight but the fight wasn't a must.

You make Scott earn the fight or anyone else for that matter. Due to something that happened last year, a player new to the team this year tries to make amends. :laugh: :laugh: :shakehead

Everybody sees Scott's size, you don't neutralize him in a fight. You do that by making him commit errors. Dump the puck in his corner every single time and every single time you have the puck. You cause him to stay off the ice.

I thought hockey was a mind game too. :thumbd: On the Bruins' brass that are not intelligent enough to know this. :rant:

Shawn has 3 times as many games as Scott and also has 5+ years on him too. That means something and when you factor in the minutes played per game, you don't need a crystal ball to figure out the rest.

I like Shawn Thornton, I think he has class and didn't need this.

When the Sabres signed Scott I didn't see teams making it a valued signing. Particularly not the Bruins.

You got to play Scott against the Sabres not against you.

Schmautzie 02-01-2013 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smithformeragent (Post 58843223)
I don't think that banning fighting is the answer, but I could really do without the enforcer role. I like to watch a guy like Ference, McQuaid, Campbell, Horton or Lucic drop the gloves, but watching Thornton and the opponent's 12th forward go at it does absolutely nothing for me.

I liked KPD's idea of reducing the number of players that teams can suit up by one in an effort to eliminate the enforcer. Teams would have a tough decision, as in the case of the Bruins a guy like Paille who kills penalties is much more valuable than a guy who fights.

Side note, have teams always dressed three forward lines or did it used to be just three? I know the old NHL games on Genesis had only three lines, but I wasn't sure if that was just a way to group the forwards and defensemen neatly.

I'm ok with the impromptu bout but the staged ones I can do without.

Fat Jughead 02-01-2013 09:25 PM

No chance. But on the off chance that fighting does cause concussions, I think 1 could even argue that it's actually good for your brain to be repeatedly traumatized.

I myself, choose to come on here to get my brain trauma.

Easye3288 02-01-2013 09:40 PM

From time to time yes a concussion will happen from fighting but I personally believe that taking fighting out of the game will cause way more concussions. Fighting is in hockey for a reason, it allows the players to police themselves and keeps star players from getting lit up.

Bone for your jar 02-01-2013 10:04 PM

Does fighting lead to concussions? Yes. When a guy is "stunned" by a punch such that he falls, that "stun" is a momentary loss of consciousness due to the fact that the spongy brain and its intricate neural circuitry has been thrown into sudden acceleration by the punch, and just as suddenly decelerated by the skull that contains it.

Mind you, blindside hits to the head, delivered by a skater at speed, tend to deliver even worse concussions than fights, simply because the forces (velocity and rotation) tend to be greater.

dafoomie 02-01-2013 10:49 PM

It's very rare that a concussion or any significant injury results from a hockey fight. The risk of injury during a fight is lower than the risk of injury from simply being on the ice during play.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news...s-study-claims
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...e-concussions/

Bruwinz37 02-01-2013 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Afam (Post 58843083)
Good read. Thanks.

This was going to be my exact response to your first post and so fact. :laugh:

Ratty 02-01-2013 11:58 PM

Simple answer to the OP's question: the purpose of a fight is to knock (concuss) a player out. Sure, a fight doesn't usually end in a concussion, but that is the object, isn't it? Do you see these thugs aiming for anything but the head?

PatriceBergeronFan 02-02-2013 12:35 AM

Can driving lead to car accidents?

DaveFromNB 02-02-2013 05:38 AM

Sure it does, and if he was working for about a million less a year as a bouncer somewhere, he`d still be at risk for a concussion. No need to take steps to protect limited talent players who wouldn`t have the slightest chance at being on an NHL roster making a mil a year, they know exactly what they are doing and what the risks are.

NotPartoftheGame 02-04-2013 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dafoomie (Post 58870899)
It's very rare that a concussion or any significant injury results from a hockey fight. The risk of injury during a fight is lower than the risk of injury from simply being on the ice during play.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news...s-study-claims
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...e-concussions/

This doctor's research was poorly conducted and other medical professionals criticized him at the time this was published. One of those disagreeing was mentioned in the National Post article.

The way they determined injuries was looking for players who did not play the next game, it was not based on any injury reports from the teams. That's how they came up with the 17 injuries. Anyone would have to agree that hockey fights cause less damage than a street brawl. You have refs stepping in when they get tired and most fighters will back off once they see their opponent in a vunerable position. And the Doctor stating that, "fighting is not causing the concussions" should talk to Ben Eager and Thornton, both concussed from fights this season.

His research also stated that the risk of concussion in a fight was much lower for fighting (0.39 percent) compared to per-game risk due to checking (less than 4.5 percent). That's comparing apples to oranges. You need to compare the type of activity and frequency to get a better comparison. Yes there are more concussions from hockey hits but that's because there are 100s more hits versus fights. A better comparison would be:

- NHL reported 88 concussions last season (other reports had it at over 100 but let's stick with league numbers.
- NHL also reported that 8% resulted from fights, or 7.04 in total.
- There were 55,981 hits recorded last season, resulting in 81 concussions = 0.14% concussions per hit.
- There were 544 hockey fights, resulting in 7 concussions = 1.29% concussions per fight.
- Therefore you are 8.89 times more likely to suffer a concussion from a fight versus a hockey hit.

Bruwinz37 02-04-2013 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotPartoftheGame (Post 59043707)
This doctor's research was poorly conducted and other medical professionals criticized him at the time this was published. One of those disagreeing was mentioned in the National Post article.

The way they determined injuries was looking for players who did not play the next game, it was not based on any injury reports from the teams. That's how they came up with the 17 injuries. Anyone would have to agree that hockey fights cause less damage than a street brawl. You have refs stepping in when they get tired and most fighters will back off once they see their opponent in a vunerable position. And the Doctor stating that, "fighting is not causing the concussions" should talk to Ben Eager and Thornton, both concussed from fights this season.

His research also stated that the risk of concussion in a fight was much lower for fighting (0.39 percent) compared to per-game risk due to checking (less than 4.5 percent). That's comparing apples to oranges. You need to compare the type of activity and frequency to get a better comparison. Yes there are more concussions from hockey hits but that's because there are 100s more hits versus fights. A better comparison would be:

- NHL reported 88 concussions last season (other reports had it at over 100 but let's stick with league numbers.
- NHL also reported that 8% resulted from fights, or 7.04 in total.
- There were 55,981 hits recorded last season, resulting in 81 concussions = 0.14% concussions per hit.
- There were 544 hockey fights, resulting in 7 concussions = 1.29% concussions per fight.
- Therefore you are 8.89 times more likely to suffer a concussion from a fight versus a hockey hit.

What you did is do some basic division. What you fail to leave out is that some players are likely to never get in a fight or, if so, rarely. There are other guys who fight much, much more frequently and are thus more likely. Everyone is eligible to be checked during a game. It isnt as simple as you try to make it.

dafoomie 02-04-2013 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotPartoftheGame (Post 59043707)
- NHL reported 88 concussions last season (other reports had it at over 100 but let's stick with league numbers.
- NHL also reported that 8% resulted from fights, or 7.04 in total.
- There were 55,981 hits recorded last season, resulting in 81 concussions = 0.14% concussions per hit.
- There were 544 hockey fights, resulting in 7 concussions = 1.29% concussions per fight.

And thus, eliminating fighting will not significantly reduce concussions in the NHL. Thank you for making my point.


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