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-   -   No mans land (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1339717)

Jetsfareast 02-02-2013 07:19 AM

No mans land
 
I hope they don't finish in no mans land, 7th-14th pick, it's either make it or bust!

Mediocre teams are the ones that finishes in that spot. I really hope they make the playoff, that would be awesome! But either McKinnon or Seth jones will beneficial for the franchise in the long run.

What do you think?

Romang67 02-02-2013 07:21 AM

I would love to finish 7th or 8th in the east...

And it's not like 14th is horrible either, we get a great pick.

King Woodballs 02-02-2013 07:24 AM

I agree with your statement. Either make it in, or tank it. Enough of this 9th-12th in the conference ****

BennyTheJet 02-02-2013 07:52 AM

We finished just out of the playoffs last year and still landed Trouba. Anything can happen. Tanking is pathetic and not what this organization should be about.

mzappa 02-02-2013 08:02 AM

While i do not condone tanking, if we do miss playoffs a lottery pick is much needed.

Although its early in a short season, given our recent play and the impressive improvement of other teams, we might be debating statistical draft odds very soon.....

ps- Would love a Trouba-Seth Jones blueline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BennyTheJet (Post 58883725)
We finished just out of the playoffs last year and still landed Trouba. Anything can happen. Tanking is pathetic and not what this organization should be about.


Jetsfareast 02-02-2013 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BennyTheJet (Post 58883725)
We finished just out of the playoffs last year and still landed Trouba. Anything can happen. Tanking is pathetic and not what this organization should be about.

But I'd would rather have, galyenchuk or Yakupov... But that is an old story. This year is different McKinnon, jones or barkov :yo:

Don't tank we don't want that :shakehead
But it would be awesome this year if we don't make it and we pick top three, it might just be the missing piece for this franchise to turn around and be a top line team in the next 10 years.:D

broinwhyteridge 02-02-2013 08:12 AM

Everyone who misses the playoffs is a lottery pick going forward. It wouldn't matter getting the top pick, both Jones or MacKinnon would still be available at 2 or 3.

Romang67 02-02-2013 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mzappa (Post 58883873)
While i do not condone tanking, if we do miss playoffs a lottery pick is much needed.

Although its early in a short season, given our recent play and the impressive improvement of other teams, we might be debating statistical draft odds very soon.....

ps- Would love a Trouba-Seth Jones blueline.

I could live with this blueline.

Enström - Byfuglien
Bogosian - Jones
Who the hell cares? - Trouba

mzappa 02-02-2013 08:30 AM

I had thought it was bottom 14. Source?

Quote:

Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge (Post 58884031)
Everyone who misses the playoffs is a lottery pick going forward. It wouldn't matter getting the top pick, both Jones or MacKinnon would still be available at 2 or 3.


broinwhyteridge 02-02-2013 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mzappa (Post 58884343)
I had thought it was bottom 14. Source?

I could be wrong - thought it was everyone out of the playoffs, but if you say just bottom 14 I'll believe it.

Doesn't make much sense though; why would someone making the playoffs get a chance for the #1 pick; their team is already better than ~ 50% of the league.

King Woodballs 02-02-2013 08:36 AM

everyone who misses the playoffs has a shot at the #1 with the lottery

mzappa 02-02-2013 08:37 AM

Ah good to know. was misinformed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Woodballs (Post 58884447)
everyone who misses the playoffs has a shot at the #1 with the lottery


KingBogo 02-02-2013 08:42 AM

Isn't that 7-10 pick pretty much this team's honey zone? But have no fear if we keep playing like we have been this past week that pick should be considerably higher.

Tanking is a non-issue. Players don't tank. They have too much pride in what they do, and besides their employment is dependent on their play. Coaches certainly don't tank as they would be the first person out the door and likely wouldn't reap the benefits of a #1 pick. Only people who might want a team to tank is fans who want to add a game changing player to their team...and guess what we have no control.

King Woodballs 02-02-2013 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mzappa (Post 58884469)
Ah good to know. was misinformed.

no worries

I believe (but I am not sure yet) that it is still going to be a weighted system.

a team that is 9th in the conference will have a .1% chance of winning.

mzappa 02-02-2013 11:59 AM

Yes its weighted......This is why i hope the Oilers make the playoffs = give them a 0.1% chance and they'll still get #1 overall!!! ....and Columbus would pick #14 with a 90% chance at first!

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Woodballs (Post 58884607)
no worries

I believe (but I am not sure yet) that it is still going to be a weighted system.

a team that is 9th in the conference will have a .1% chance of winning.


Stej 02-02-2013 12:32 PM

Hoping the team finishes in the playoffs or dead last <> tanking.

Only the organization can control whether or not they tank AND THEY NEVER WOULD!!! If the season continues to go poorly, and I as a fan choose to hope they finish last, please do not accuse me of asking them to tank. That is not the same thing. I would be furious if the players, coaches or management ever stopped trying.

Sorry, the tanking thing is a huge pet peeve of mine.

/rant

JetsHomer 02-02-2013 12:36 PM

This new lottery system doesn't really change much. A team outside the top 5 has only one it once before. Those teams have terrible odds.

EpicGingy 02-02-2013 02:08 PM

I don't support tanking but I do really hope we don't finish in no man's land. I'd hate to become another Calgary, consistent bubble team.

I also don't want to become another Edmonton, but if we don't make the playoffs it would be nice to get a top 5 pick. At least if our team sucks, the pain won't be as terrible because of the length of the season.

Then again I really want us to make the playoffs.

Huffer 02-02-2013 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mzappa (Post 58884343)
I had thought it was bottom 14. Source?

Quote:

Originally Posted by broinwhyteridge (Post 58884391)
I could be wrong - thought it was everyone out of the playoffs, but if you say just bottom 14 I'll believe it.

Doesn't make much sense though; why would someone making the playoffs get a chance for the #1 pick; their team is already better than ~ 50% of the league.

Can someone explain to me the difference between out of the playoffs and the bottom 14?

There's 30 teams in the league and 16 make the playoffs. That leaves 14 teams out of the playoffs.

So 14 teams or out of the playoffs is like saying 7:45 or quarter to eight.

Stej 02-02-2013 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huffer (Post 58909265)
Can someone explain to me the difference between out of the playoffs and the bottom 14?

There's 30 teams in the league and 16 make the playoffs. That leaves 14 teams out of the playoffs.

So 14 teams or out of the playoffs is like saying 7:45 or quarter to eight.

Is it because it's possible to be out of the playoffs but still in the top 16 in the NHL overall because of conference inequality? I am confused too, but that's all I could come up with. :dunno:

GrandChelems 02-02-2013 04:18 PM

Good god, what is it with fans and this obsession with tanking these days.

Holden Caulfield 02-02-2013 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying High (Post 58893607)
This new lottery system doesn't really change much. A team outside the top 5 has only one it once before. Those teams have terrible odds.

Not true.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=18342

The draft lottery was implemented in 1993. Since then the following teams have won the lottery and not ended up with the first overall pick.

Year - Lottery Winner - Original Spot - Picking Spot
1996 - Los Angeles - 7th - 3rd
1999 - Chicago - 8th - 4th
2011 - New Jersey - 8th - 4th

Which is 3 times in 17 years. Or 17.5% of the time. That's a reasonable amount of the time the lottery winner is outside the top 5, considering they have a 23.2% chance of winning the lottery. That means it is almost 1 in 4 that a team outside the top 5 will draft #1 overall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stej (Post 58909415)
Is it because it's possible to be out of the playoffs but still in the top 16 in the NHL overall because of conference inequality? I am confused too, but that's all I could come up with. :dunno:

Yes, that's why. But for draft purposes, the "bottom 14" or first 14 picks are always the 14 teams who miss playoffs.

veganhunter 02-02-2013 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingBogo (Post 58884557)
Isn't that 7-10 pick pretty much this team's honey zone? But have no fear if we keep playing like we have been this past week that pick should be considerably higher.

Tanking is a non-issue. Players don't tank. They have too much pride in what they do, and besides their employment is dependent on their play. Coaches certainly don't tank as they would be the first person out the door and likely wouldn't reap the benefits of a #1 pick. Only people who might want a team to tank is fans who want to add a game changing player to their team...and guess what we have no control.

Teams that are completely out of the playoff picture trade away their short term valuable assets all the time and call up young guys to take their place in the line up. I would consider that a form of tanking. Obviously this was way more prevalent before the current point system created artificial parity and made it difficult for teams to decide whether they are or are not playoff contenders.

Most on this board seem to really be against tanking but if it's done that way I really don't have a problem with it. Some of the best teams right now were assembled by bottoming out. Obviously there are other ways to go about becoming a contender as well but that depends on the competence of your front office and the tolerance of the market to watch a losing team.

KingBogo 02-03-2013 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by veganhunter (Post 58912479)
Teams that are completely out of the playoff picture trade away their short term valuable assets all the time and call up young guys to take their place in the line up. I would consider that a form of tanking. Obviously this was way more prevalent before the current point system created artificial parity and made it difficult for teams to decide whether they are or are not playoff contenders.

Most on this board seem to really be against tanking but if it's done that way I really don't have a problem with it. Some of the best teams right now were assembled by bottoming out. Obviously there are other ways to go about becoming a contender as well but that depends on the competence of your front office and the tolerance of the market to watch a losing team.

You make a valid point, but I personally don't consider that tanking. At some point in a season (often the trade deadline) it often makes sense to sell off short term assets for long term assets to help the rebuild. As you indicated this sometimes results in a bottoming out, but it has been known to improve the competitive advantage of a team if they have NHL ready or close to NHL players in the system.

Stej 02-03-2013 10:32 AM

Good lord. Deciding you are better off as an organization building for the future instead of right now is not tanking. It's just a redistribution of "wealth" across time for the betterment of the club.

It's akin to someone investing money for the future rather than spending every dime they make now.

Tanking implies not trying which NO. TEAM. WILL. EVER. DO.

It's my dream in life to never hear someone ask "why are we talking about tanking" again. We aren't talking about tanking. We're talking about making this club better in the most efficient way possible. THAT is something we can debate, but the players, coaches, and management will always try their best or risk devaluing themselves personally.


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