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DKH 02-03-2013 07:23 AM

Seguin
 
Interesting article in the Globe today in the hockey section about Boy Wonder I. I'd link it but am having a bit of a problem doing it; however, Claude comments about his "out of synch" after a stint on bigger ice surfaces, and KDP discusses his style and how his great physical skills aren't being met with a mindset of equally high end discipline/determination/commitment- yet. It is there at times and may be evolving and I think it is- but it is these subjective traits when combined with the skillset that produce all sports greatest players.

Personally I have been more impressed than not. His speed/quickness is out of this planet; his shot and moves stand side by side; his anticipation looks very good to me. He has been somewhat snakebit even- but there are still warts.

I think one sentence defined where this guy will be- the issue is the mental part: will he dial in the compete level, will he WILLINGLY battle for pucks not some of the time but have it become a second nature part of him; will he with experience learn to use his elite speed/quickness like present day players like Stamkos, or past stars like Hull and Bossy (who neither had anywhere near the first take skills of Seguin) to zip in and out of areas and use his exceptional release/shot (the author opines Seguins is probably not at those threes level but it is pretty high up there and I concur)

All ingrediants to me say he should score about 35+ a season and 40 should be reachable over 82 games. I'd also keep him at RW and work thru video watching the aforementioned three at how they find seems (hate to say it but Skinner has this)- it might be just higher hockey sense but I believe he can improve on this and become very good. The question is will Tyler be a 25-30ish guy or add another 10 type with a more complete game. That was always the knock on Thornton and we saw what happened that first year he got moved to San Jose and his mindset matched his skills. Had he had that here 24/7 he'd have his name in the rafters here when he is done.

As an aside he should have success no matter what center he plays with but I'd like to see how he does with Ryan Spooner in time. Spooner can really move the puck about as good as anyone and can skate in Seguins area code. They would certainly need a strong defensive player on the other side who also contributes and I'm sure the thought of this duo would be to much for Claude's heart right now, but it would sure be fun to watch. Spooner to me will have more offense than Bergeron and will be there with Krejci in time.

BNHL 02-03-2013 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKH (Post 58958011)
Interesting article in the Globe today in the hockey section about Boy Wonder I. I'd link it but am having a bit of a problem doing it; however, Claude comments about his "out of synch" after a stint on bigger ice surfaces, and KDP discusses his style and how his great physical skills aren't being met with a mindset of equally high end discipline/determination/commitment- yet. It is there at times and may be evolving and I think it is- but it is these subjective traits when combined with the skillset that produce all sports greatest players.

Personally I have been more impressed than not. His speed/quickness is out of this planet; his shot and moves stand side by side; his anticipation looks very good to me. He has been somewhat snakebit even- but there are still warts.

I think one sentence defined where this guy will be- the issue is the mental part: will he dial in the compete level, will he WILLINGLY battle for pucks not some of the time but have it become a second nature part of him; will he with experience learn to use his elite speed/quickness like present day players like Stamkos, or past stars like Hull and Bossy (who neither had anywhere near the first take skills of Seguin) to zip in and out of areas and use his exceptional release/shot (the author opines Seguins is probably not at those threes level but it is pretty high up there and I concur)

All ingrediants to me say he should score about 35+ a season and 40 should be reachable over 82 games. I'd also keep him at RW and work thru video watching the aforementioned three at how they find seems (hate to say it but Skinner has this)- it might be just higher hockey sense but I believe he can improve on this and become very good. The question is will Tyler be a 25-30ish guy or add another 10 type with a more complete game. That was always the knock on Thornton and we saw what happened that first year he got moved to San Jose and his mindset matched his skills. Had he had that here 24/7 he'd have his name in the rafters here when he is done.

As an aside he should have success no matter what center he plays with but I'd like to see how he does with Ryan Spooner in time. Spooner can really move the puck about as good as anyone and can skate in Seguins area code. They would certainly need a strong defensive player on the other side who also contributes and I'm sure the thought of this duo would be to much for Claude's heart right now, but it would sure be fun to watch. Spooner to me will have more offense than Bergeron and will be there with Krejci in time.

Sometimes he impresses me sometimes not. I see a very very good shot (Kessel's is the best to my eyes),not a great one, very good speed but not elite,very good passer,above average puck handler,above average elusiveness,somewhat soft but overall reliable player. No doubt age and maturity vault him into top 20 player but I don't see top 10 forward. Can't wait to see him when he transitions to center. All bets are off then.

TCL40 02-03-2013 08:44 AM

I have been underwhelmed this season. I think his stint in Europe reinforced his weaknesses (his allergy to the boards especially).

I think Seguin will get his groove back, but the one thing he is consistently doing that is driving me nuts-is his decision making. He tries to carry the puck through 2 and 3 defensemen, he skates into the offensive zone and shoots, rather than dumping and chasing or looking for a pass.

The talent is there, and I even think the hockey smarts are there, but right now his game isn't. I think he is trying to do too much, when he needs to simplify. He needs to really watch how Krejci is playing right now. Seguin needs to develop some of Krejci's patience and of course the willingness to battle on the boards.

Shoebottom 02-03-2013 08:54 AM

Like I said earlier, he hasn't made any improvements from last season, which is disappointing at his age. He looks like he is playing pond hockey out there.

WBC8 02-03-2013 09:06 AM

You can't even be remotely impressed with Seguin so far this year. He is creating nothing most nights and trying to go one on three far too often. His shot has been Wideman-esque. His compete level for the Puck has been Kessel-esque. Thankfully he is still good at shootouts.

That being said his skillset and potential are of the charts. His season last year was very very good and he battled hard . He is by far the most gifted offensives player we have. He will turn it up.

Kaoz 02-03-2013 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 (Post 58959423)
You can't even be remotely impressed with Seguin so far this year. He is creating nothing most nights and trying to go one on three far too often. His shot has been Wideman-esque. His compete level for the Puck has been Kessel-esque. Thankfully he is still good at shootouts.

That being said his skillset and potential are of the charts. His season last year was very very good and he battled hard . He is by far the most gifted offensives player we have. He will turn it up.

I found in the game against TO and Buffalo the compete level was there, bu of course this is directly after Julien called him out I believe for his lack of play along the walls and I'd sooner that didn't have to happen.

He's getting his chances, and when he finally pots one or two I have little doubt the opinions on him will be night and day around here. It seems production can often be the difference between a good game, a meh game, and a horrid game for some (see new Chris Bourque thread for an example of what I mean). Myself, I think he needs more time then most to get back into that NHL mindset after playing overseas... it isn't yet second nature to him.

End of the day, not at all happy with his play for the first few games of the season, he looked very much like he did in his first few games, tentative and unwilling... but he's been coming around the last two. The points haven't started accumulating yet but they will. I still think he needs some size on his line to help create some space and time but have little doubt he'll make it work regardless. The net presence he's shown has been solid, and should have had that dirty goal they called back against TO.

dredeye 02-03-2013 09:21 AM

I think Europe really hurt him. I think he had a much easier time finding his way through guys and was scoring at such a great clip that he's lost right now. He still thinks he can deak around 3 guys and get to the net and pot a fancy goal. He's struggling and eventually it'll make sense for him again. I think once our boys come back from injury they should give him a night off just to spark him a little.

Topshelf8188 02-03-2013 09:22 AM

I think everyone is over analyzing his slow start way too much. Just me though. He's a goal scorer first and foremost and is snakebit. He's been hustling every game(mostly). Just because he doesn't have 15 points already we need to question his hockey sense? Good thing nobody on here is a GM, half of the roster would be traded by now for "under performing". He is going to be fine. I cannot wait to see what happens here if and when Dougie hits a skid and the "we should have traded picks with Winnipeg to draft Scheifele" threads pop up.

Shoebottom 02-03-2013 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topshelf8188 (Post 58959835)
I think everyone is over analyzing his slow start way too much. Just me though. He's a goal scorer first and foremost and is snakebit. He's been hustling every game. Just because he doesn't have 15 points already we need to question his hockey sense? Good thing nobody on here is a GM, half of the roster would be traded by now for "under performing". He is going to be fine. I cannot wait to see what happens here if and when Dougie hits a skid and the "we should have traded picks with Winnipeg to draft Scheifele" threads pop up.

well, his hockey sense hasn't been all that great either. Losing the puck the way he did so far this year, it sahows he isn't sharp yet or something. Seems like sometimes he doesn't know what to do with it. Must be rust or something.

ProdigalFan 02-03-2013 09:28 AM

I think he's very frustrated. He goes from being the flame helmeted talk of the town in Biel to struggling in his real job. Easy to score when you can plant yourself in the faceoff dot and take one timers all day with no one bothering you.

He is definitely trying to do it all himself at times, just trying to get that first regulation goal. If he was scoring at his usual pace right now, he might be playing a more complete game, but his offense is off and he knows the team needs him to score, so he's ignoring the boards right now and doing a lot of circling in the high slot looking to break out.

He's got to try some patience, and keep working with his linemates. I liked his screen in the Buffalo game. Despite his increased muscle, he's still young and gets knocked down/knocked off the puck fairly easily by big defenders who are keeping him in their sights at all times.

Boston Bruno 02-03-2013 09:34 AM

Call the sharks..see what we can get.

RussellmaniaKW 02-03-2013 09:37 AM

Seguin was a machine last night. Didn't have a goal to show for it, but had a shift in the 3rd that looked like on of those Lucic/Krejci/Horton shifts where the other team couldn't get the puck out of the zone, except it was all Seguin just picking like 3 guys pockets in a row. I agree that people are overanalyzing his game right now. if he had a few more goals nobody would be questioning it. I think the smaller ice and extra physicality of the NHL just has his timing off a bit, but he has definitely started to find his rhythm. Yeah it would be nice if he was going all Marleau on everyone right now, but I'll take a guy who does that down the stretch over a guy who does it in the first 15 games.

Jack Donaghy 02-03-2013 09:52 AM

Last night was his best game of the season. Getting in position to shoot, competing hard. It's been a bit of a disappointment but the goals will come, and hopefully the effort will remain.

He is also passing well, which is great.

VeddarRants 02-03-2013 09:54 AM

I've actually thought Seguin has played pretty well so far this season. The goals will come... IMO he's a little snake-bitten right now. In my eyes, he's rushing it a little bit instead of letting the game and his skills come naturally. I think his passing has been the most impressive part of his game so far this year. He's not a dump and chase/work the boards player, but I do think a more consistent effort along the wall and in front of the net would help out, like in the Buffalo and Toronto games.

since76 02-03-2013 09:58 AM

YEs Seguin is a deception since the beginning of season BUT a big part of his problem is HIS CENTER, Bergeron is a desaster in offense, he create NOTHING and he shot on the goalie from 100 feet !!!
I KNOW bergie is a god here and everyone who don't say he is perfect every second of his life will be banned and accused of sin against god
but Seguin need an offensive and CREATIVE center like Krejci

Bergie is a wonderful player but he match well with Marchand type of player

Jack Donaghy 02-03-2013 10:09 AM

Bergeron's shot is his weakness. He makes plays for his wingers and is a very good passer, and is elite defensively.

since76 02-03-2013 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LancelotLink (Post 58961101)
Bergeron's shot is his weakness. He makes plays for his wingers and is a very good passer, and is elite defensively.

YES totally agree, but not since the beginning of this year !!
like seguin all will come back soon

LucicIsABeast 02-03-2013 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 (Post 58959423)
You can't even be remotely impressed with Seguin so far this year. He is creating nothing most nights and trying to go one on three far too often. His shot has been Wideman-esque. His compete level for the Puck has been Kessel-esque. Thankfully he is still good at shootouts.

That being said his skillset and potential are of the charts. His season last year was very very good and he battled hard . He is by far the most gifted offensives player we have. He will turn it up.

Watching him be first to the puck along the boards, slashing at it then skating away has to be one of the most upsetting things to watch. If he would just battle for picks instead of quickly swooping in for a nanosecond, he would create more chances.

The Dangley One 02-03-2013 10:31 AM

Don't really care how good his skills are, he needs to put the puck in the net

JMiller 02-03-2013 10:35 AM

Almost looks like a sophomore slump. Might be a cliche but he needs to get back to the strengths of his game- skate and shoot. The rest will come when he gets the confidence back. It would be almost impossible for any player with confidence to not get his motor running when playing alongside bergeron and marchand.

WBC8 02-03-2013 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ballershotcaller12 (Post 58961849)
Don't really care how good his skills are, he needs to put the puck in the net

Exactly. Hes going to be paid a lot of money next year to score.

MarshmontMcSlewfoot 02-03-2013 10:38 AM

What I am seeing so far is a guy with a lot of tools but no toolbox.

Him ending up as the leading scorer for the team last year by a point or two could have been a little bit of a curse. He is young enough that we should still be able to sit him a game or give him 4th line duty but after he lead the team in scoring I guess he might be "established" and you can't do something like that.

I expected a transition year from Seguin anyways. And I would really like to see improvement from him without the puck, I'm not too worried about his game with it.


Right now Marchand is 10x the hockey player Seguin is Tyler has a ways to go.

BadBruins 02-03-2013 10:39 AM

His last two games have been good IMO. More of what you expect when not lighting up the box score.

Bergeron appears just as "off" from an offensive standpoint though. Maybe playing on the same line right now isn't helping matters.

Seguin has 36 shots directed to the net and 1 EN goal.

Bergeron has 39 shots directed to the net and has 1 goal.

Kate08 02-03-2013 10:43 AM

It's not about the points for me. We know he can score goals, that will come back. It's frustrating to watch, he's stupid snake-bitten, but I'm not worried about his scoring touch in the long run.

He's been making some bad decisions and has looked apprehensive. It's almost like he's regressed. Am I worried long term? No. I think he'll snap out of it. Is it a little concerning? Sure is. I'm trying to remember that he's young and just spent a few months in a situation where he was The Man, and maybe he needs to get knocked down a few pegs and get back to basics.

And Lou, I love you, but "Kessel-esque" and "Wideman-esque" is a bit silly.

mashmont 02-03-2013 10:43 AM

We all know how dominate Seguin can be.

To me, these few games have reminded me of his Rookie year a little bit.

Watching him you just wanted to tell him to slow down a little, theres a time for full speed skating and a time to take your time.

I havent really seen Seguin do what he was doing last year and take his time. Instead, it seems anyways he is sprintning into big body defenders who take the body and he looses the puck.
I think he will get his groove back with time, i think he's just gripping the stick.


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