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-   -   Rate Muller's job so far as coach? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1341787)

Firestorm 02-04-2013 09:17 PM

Rate Muller's job so far as coach?
 
If you had to rank the job that Muller has done as head coach out of 10 (10 being the highest obviously), what would you give him and why?

Anton Dubinchuk 02-04-2013 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firestorm (Post 59058019)
If you had to rank the job that Muller has done as head coach out of 10 (10 being the highest obviously), what would you give him and why?

8.5

He's been really good.

Stephen Goalbert 02-04-2013 09:56 PM

7.5/10

Maybe an 8

geehaad 02-04-2013 10:01 PM

My favorite change from both Laviolette and Maurice: accountability. It doesn't always happen, but you see more of it with Muller.

For instance, Jamie McBain had a brutal night tonight, and he played 14:00 as a consequence. Normally you'd see him tac out at between 18:00 and 20:00.

It doesn't work with every player, to be sure. For instance, I think it would be bad to punish Semin or Pitkanen with reduced TOI...I don't think they'd take it well. But it's refreshing to not see someone **** up and then be on the ice for the subsequent face off.

BanginLikeaBiscuit 02-04-2013 10:04 PM

Joe Corvo has been benched, 10/10.

PaulProteus 02-04-2013 10:06 PM

I'll 2nd the "No passengers" philosophy of Muller. I think he grabbed everyone's attention from the get-go last season when he took over, and players started responding. I think he might have grabbed Jamie McBain's to start this season.

It would have been interesting to see what a full camp under Muller would have looked like this year.

I'll give him a 7 of 10 so far.

Lethargic 02-04-2013 10:17 PM

I'd give him an 8.

Novacane 02-04-2013 10:24 PM

7.5ish. The PP still sucks and he kind of seems to have Maurice's patience with kids. Although, it makes sense after he explained his reasoning on keeping Bowman over everyone else. And the PP got going tonight so that's nice. I'll reevaluate him around the 20 game mark. I've been happy with him though.

Zombie Mike Murphy 02-04-2013 10:37 PM

9/10. He's playing the hand he's been dealt about as well as could be asked.

When Semin and EStaal are fully locked in (Not to even mention JStall and Skinner), we are going to be DEADLY.

La Huracanista 02-05-2013 12:12 AM

He's got the Canes taking more shots on goal than anyone else in the league. He's played the kids a lot. Veterans have been held accountable. He appears to understand that hockey is a game with a lot of luck, and that scoring chances can be more indicative of a good game than the score.

8/10, 9/10 if we make the playoffs. Would try again.

tarheelhockey 02-05-2013 12:33 AM

I'm holding off on backflips for the time being. This team has been very bipolar and some of the personnel decisions have just been odd.

I'm happy with Muller, don't get me wrong. But I'm not sure we aren't in for a roller coaster ride with this team.

DaveG 02-05-2013 12:57 AM

a decent 7/10.

Positives:
The accountability that he holds the players to is something that's been much needed for this organization. He won't just toss out ice time to players based on role, you have to perform to keep earning it.

Good about giving young players (well maybe not Boychuk) the opportunity to show what they can in an appropriate role rather then just sticking them on the 4th line and saying "ok, produce or you're back in the AHL"

Negatives:
The team right now seems to wilt against an opponent that will try to physically impose their will on them. Results against more physical teams in Boston and Philly this season vs the results against Ottawa, Buffalo, and Toronto bare this out. This isn't entirely on Kirk, but the mental toughness, when push comes to shove... literally, seems to be a bit lacking.

Vagrant 02-05-2013 01:25 AM

Tough to separate the roster from the coach in this situation. Eric Staal has been outstanding under Muller and has gotten as much mileage out of him as Laviolette did, which is good for this team on a nightly basis. However, I don't like how quick he is to move away from combinations that seem to be generating some chemistry. I don't like the fact that he hasn't been able to incorporate the kids into meaningful roles, Faulk and Skinner notwithstanding. Converting Bowman into a grinder is a total WTF move, but it is what it is.

Again, a lot of questions revolve around if he has been given the right players to build a bottom six or if he's not doing a good job utilizing the players he has to play there. On paper, they should be fairly productive but they just aren't at all. Larose has taken a nosedive under Muller. Guys like Nodl, Brent, Stewart, etc. look lost or have looked lost for extended periods of time.

Carolinas Identity 02-05-2013 01:28 AM

8.0-8.5//10

I love Cap'n Kirk

Roboturner913 02-05-2013 03:22 AM

I think he has done about as good a job as could reasonably be expected and I do believe he's probably the right guy to coach the team for the next 10 years, if he wants.

He has been dealt a tough hand though. Mgmt seems content with creating one hole to fill another. It's one thing to have a fourth line full of AHL guys, it's another to have those guys on the second and third lines and dealing with a talented but frustratingly inconsistent defensive group.

Boom Boom Anton 02-05-2013 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant (Post 59076539)
I don't like the fact that he hasn't been able to incorporate the kids into meaningful roles, Faulk and Skinner notwithstanding. Converting Bowman into a grinder is a total WTF move, but it is what it is.

Other than Boychuk, which kid hasn't had a good chance to be in a meaningful role under Muller?

Dalpe, Bowman, Sanguinetti, McBain, Faulk, Tlusty and Skinner are all young guys drafted (or traded for while still a prospect) that have had meaningful roles this year. Only Dalpe has failed to lock down a spot (which may be short term). Maybe an argument for few other guys like Terry or Jordan getting a shot, but I don't see a lot of NHL ready talent not getting a chance, and this team is one of the youngest in the league.

I don't know that Muller converted Bowman into a grinder. Bowman hasn't really been a scorer since Jr. Hockey. We've heard for years about his great wrist shot, but that hasn't translated even at the AHL level. I think he realized himself that he needs to be good at other things or he won't stick in the NHL. I'm ok with the role he is playing and if over time he is able to find some offense, then even better.

Mr America 02-05-2013 07:11 AM

I'm pretty much willing to give Muller a pass on everything since he's been here. He took over mid season, then had no preseason to work on much of anything.

Moosetache 02-05-2013 07:33 AM

I dont want to put a number on it just yet, but I will give some of my views.

1. Sangs cannot be in the lineup at this point. I am with all of you that Corvo is a mess as well, but we have to find another option. Perhaps a thread on a 5/6 D that is available is in order.

2. The bottom six is a bit of a mess, I agree with the reply earlier. Bowman, Brent, Larose, Nodl Wallace and Westgarth. Not a whole lot going to scare you there....from a physicality perspective OR a hockey perspective. Need to talk to JR about that though. (Remember Cullen as the 3rd line center? Ah, the good old days)

3. I am hoping that we are seeing the lines sticking together (at least the top two) for a bit. I do think that with no training camp essentially, you just have to go with something at some point. If you dont, you will never have anything.

4. Cam needed to be better. Hopefully last night was the start.

Joe McGrath 02-05-2013 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vagrant (Post 59076539)
Tough to separate the roster from the coach in this situation. Eric Staal has been outstanding under Muller and has gotten as much mileage out of him as Laviolette did, which is good for this team on a nightly basis. However, I don't like how quick he is to move away from combinations that seem to be generating some chemistry. I don't like the fact that he hasn't been able to incorporate the kids into meaningful roles, Faulk and Skinner notwithstanding. Converting Bowman into a grinder is a total WTF move, but it is what it is.

Again, a lot of questions revolve around if he has been given the right players to build a bottom six or if he's not doing a good job utilizing the players he has to play there. On paper, they should be fairly productive but they just aren't at all. Larose has taken a nosedive under Muller. Guys like Nodl, Brent, Stewart, etc. look lost or have looked lost for extended periods of time.

I think it's time to stop blaming coaching for "not finding meaningful roles" for the kids. Right now the Canes have a 20 year old in their top 6 forwards, a 20 year old in their top 4 D, and have Bowman playing a regular 3rd line shift and killing penalties. It's time to face the facts that the guys we always refer to (the wasted talents the Canes couldn't use probably) were never as good as they were hyped up to be.

I really don't understand why anyone would disagree with Bowman becoming a 3rd line grinder. His shot was deadly in juniors but NHL goalies are like much better than WHL goalies and he doesn't have much else in his arsenal. With the current setup the only place you could flip Bowman to give him a more meaningful role is for Tlusty who is a much better all around player than Bowman. Would make no sense.

tarheelhockey 02-05-2013 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe McGrath (Post 59081195)
I think it's time to stop blaming coaching for "not finding meaningful roles" for the kids.

Seriously. Are we not the youngest or second-youngest team in the league this year? It's kind of hard to grasp why we would give more "meaningful" roles to 20 year olds when those jobs are already being done capably by 24-year-olds.

It's not like last year when we were playing Ponikarovsky and LaRose over Dalpe and Bowman. We have a young, mostly rebuilt team now. At this point I feel like the young(est) players have had abundant opportunity to grab hold of important roles and be part of the team building process. Sangs is slowly growing into an NHL defender, Bowman has done what he needed to do, Dalpe had 7 games in the top-6, McBain was pushed to earn his spot back and succeeded. The only guys who got the axe right away were Welsh (who was brutal and is actually older than Tlusty) and Boychuk.

So... are we really just talking about Boychuk here? He's the only one I can see who could really have a complaint, and even at that...

geehaad 02-05-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moosetache (Post 59080223)
I dont want to put a number on it just yet, but I will give some of my views.

1. Sangs cannot be in the lineup at this point. I am with all of you that Corvo is a mess as well, but we have to find another option. Perhaps a thread on a 5/6 D that is available is in order.

2. The bottom six is a bit of a mess, I agree with the reply earlier. Bowman, Brent, Larose, Nodl Wallace and Westgarth. Not a whole lot going to scare you there....from a physicality perspective OR a hockey perspective. Need to talk to JR about that though. (Remember Cullen as the 3rd line center? Ah, the good old days)

3. I am hoping that we are seeing the lines sticking together (at least the top two) for a bit. I do think that with no training camp essentially, you just have to go with something at some point. If you dont, you will never have anything.

4. Cam needed to be better. Hopefully last night was the start.

Not sure what any of that has to do with a positive/negative indication on Muller.

TheBigKahuna 02-05-2013 11:17 AM

I think Muller is still trying to figure out how and what to build with the scraps of lumber he was given.

I still see a lot of the crap that Mo supposedly was responsible for, lingering in their game. The inability to bring the puck up ice, without having to play dump and chase, ESPECIALLY on the powerplay. I find it hard to believe that no one except Pitkanen can carry the puck through the neutral zone.

The Canes have had 3 or 4 different coaches work on their special teams over the last few seasons, and no one has gotten through to these guys yet. The powerplay is still shaky at best.

I hate to say this again, but I give Muller till after NEXT season to prove his worth. If by that time, the Canes have missed the payoffs yet again, I'd send him packing.

Mr Whipple 02-05-2013 11:20 AM

Yeah, most of the complaints I have with this team falls on JR, not the coach. I'd rate Muller at 8/10 right now. He's done well with what he's had to deal with so far.

Let's not forget he had half a season last year, and this season is essentially a half season with no pre-season or real camp. So he won't even get his first full season coaching the Canes until his third year.

And even with two major moves in the off-season this team still has a long ways to go to change from the soft team it's been to a bigger, more physical one. Can't pin that on him at all.

Oenatzu 02-05-2013 11:55 AM

I'm not going to put a number on him but I've been pretty satisfied with the way he's taken the team over. The current problems with the team (defense and players who can be shut down with physicality) are mostly something that aren't really his job to fix. To get the full potential out of Muller JR needs to give him a complete team to work with.
One thing Muller can and needs to fix, though, is special teams. Both our power play and penalty kill have been horrible this season and I believe the team has the tools and players to make them work a lot better.

faulkingdynamic 02-05-2013 12:37 PM

IMO there is very little to quibble with. The main issues are still roster related IMO. Losing Ruutu out of the top 9 makes a big difference. The inability to field a quality back 6 is a problem and has been since the cup. There are guys on the roster that i dont believe Muller and MacLean want or would like to replace with better fits.... i would speculate Char and Jokinen. The bottom 6 still isnt what they want but preMuller contracts are what they are.


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