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-   -   The Pronger trades (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1342333)

OCSportsfan 02-05-2013 02:27 PM

The Pronger trades
 
Analyzing the Pronger trade - Both of them

We get Pronger and a Stanley Cup for

Lupul
Smid
Eberle (2008 draft choice)
Nick Ross (2007 draft choice)

Philly gets Pronger and now a salary write off

We get

Lupul (later traded with Gardiner for Beauch)
Sbisa
Palmieri (2009 draft choice)
Etem (2010 Draft Choice)

I actually think we got the better fo both deals.

KEEROLE Vatanen 02-05-2013 02:31 PM

i am not a big murph fan but he nailed the pronger trade, and more importantly his scouts nailed the draft picks, or so it seems. and i miss pronger still

mightyquack 02-05-2013 02:32 PM

Philly trade worked out well for both teams. Pronger would of got them a cup if they didn't have an AHL scrub in goal. And we got somewhat of immediate help in Lupul (then had back issues) and then Sbisa, and made some good choices in Palmieri and Etem.

Getz2perry 02-05-2013 02:36 PM

I think they all averaged out pretty nicely

Theridion 02-05-2013 02:48 PM

The suprising thing, looking back, is just how much value is being dealt. How so few 9f those pieces going both ways disappeared. The ducks picks are nhlers now, lupul is a great player, beachemin... forget about it. Beach is just so good on the ducks. Gardiner worked out. Sbisa has been solid.

Dealing pronger, or any star... teams never get value back. Getting sbisa, beach, etem and palmeri is definitelly a great return for an irreplaceable player.

Damn good deals for the ducks but no sides should be complaining too hard with what they got. They all got what they expected to get or more.

Paul4587 02-05-2013 03:01 PM

One thing I will complain about when we dealt Pronger is that it completely closed our cup window. We've been mediocre ever since and while we made out well asset wise, we also used up the final 4 years of Getzlaf and Perry's deals by icing a mediocre hockey team.

Now that Etem & Palmieri etc are emerging for us Getzlaf and Perry are in their final years and Selanne is another step closer to retirement.

I'm a fan of the return we received from Pronger but still not a fan of trading away such a quality blueliner.

Also you can't really claim we got Beauch in the Pronger deal. If you want to do that then the trade is essentially Pronger & Gardiner for Beauch (who could have been re-signed), Sbisa, Palmieri & Etem.

TheJoeMan 02-05-2013 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul4587 (Post 59099763)
One thing I will complain about when we dealt Pronger is that it completely closed our cup window. We've been mediocre ever since and while we made out well asset wise, we also used up the final 4 years of Getzlaf and Perry's deals by icing a mediocre hockey team.

Now that Etem & Palmieri etc are emerging for us Getzlaf and Perry are in their final years and Selanne is another step closer to retirement.

I'm a fan of the return we received from Pronger but still not a fan of trading away such a quality blueliner.

Also you can't really claim we got Beauch in the Pronger deal. If you want to do that then the trade is essentially Pronger & Gardiner for Beauch (who could have been re-signed), Sbisa, Palmieri & Etem.

Considering the deal that Pronger ended up signing it was highly unlikely he was going to remain a Duck beyond his contract. Potentially losing Pronger for nothing or even a lesser deal was just not an option. Even in hindsight I still think this is a great deal. Sure our defense hasn't been the same since he was traded but that was going to happen anyway when he walked. I hope Murph has the balls to pull off another deal like this when it's obvious Perry isn't coming back.

DuckJet 02-05-2013 03:31 PM

Fire Murray. :sarcasm:

Water Knight 02-05-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCSportsfan (Post 59097997)
Analyzing the Pronger trade - Both of them

We get Pronger and a Stanley Cup for

Lupul
Smid
Eberle (2008 draft choice)
Nick Ross (2007 draft choice)

Philly gets Pronger and now a salary write off

We get

Lupul (later traded with Gardiner for Beauch)
Sbisa
Palmieri (2009 draft choice)
Etem (2010 Draft Choice)

I actually think we got the better fo both deals.

We also traded down in the draft and got a second which ended up being Matthew Clark.

Ramenbot 02-05-2013 03:57 PM

I still think it's ridiculous that Beauchemin had to be traded for to get him back when he never wanted to leave the team in the first place.

snarktacular 02-05-2013 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJoeMan (Post 59100671)
Considering the deal that Pronger ended up signing it was highly unlikely he was going to remain a Duck beyond his contract. Potentially losing Pronger for nothing or even a lesser deal was just not an option. Even in hindsight I still think this is a great deal. Sure our defense hasn't been the same since he was traded but that was going to happen anyway when he walked. I hope Murph has the balls to pull off another deal like this when it's obvious Perry isn't coming back.

I agree. I don't think we could have extended Pronger's contract. I just can't see us giving away a 35+ contract like that. So yes Murray was closing the window a little early, but it was going to close one year later even if he had kept Pronger around.

So instead of weighing the return against an assumed ___ years more of Pronger, you weight it against 1 more year of Pronger (plus whatever you think they might get from a rental trade if that happens).

Corey Perry* 02-05-2013 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Knight (Post 59101573)
We also traded down in the draft and got a second which ended up being Matthew Clark.

Who looks like he's going to top out as a 5/6.

AngelDuck 02-05-2013 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hampeus (Post 59107187)
Who looks like he's going to top out as a 5/6.

Which if he did become a bottom pairing defenseman, isn't terrible for a second round pick. Not great value, but he wasn't a first rounder

Getz2perry 02-05-2013 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramenbot (Post 59102709)
I still think it's ridiculous that Beauchemin had to be traded for to get him back when he never wanted to leave the team in the first place.

Ya we could have kept gardiner and possibly schultz -.-

Ducksgo* 02-05-2013 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Getz2perry (Post 59107671)
Ya we could have kept gardiner and possibly schultz -.-

Keep Schultz in process of keeping Gardiner? If that was even logical he would be in a Maple Leaf uniform and not a Oiler one. I still think this Gardiner traded means Schultz is lost is rediculous.

Paul4587 02-05-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJoeMan (Post 59100671)
Considering the deal that Pronger ended up signing it was highly unlikely he was going to remain a Duck beyond his contract. Potentially losing Pronger for nothing or even a lesser deal was just not an option. Even in hindsight I still think this is a great deal. Sure our defense hasn't been the same since he was traded but that was going to happen anyway when he walked. I hope Murph has the balls to pull off another deal like this when it's obvious Perry isn't coming back.

If you think Pronger definitely would have left you have a point but I still think something could have been done to keep him. Obviously we weren't going to offer him the contract Philly did but I hoped at the time (and it was probably wishful thinking on my part) that something could have been worked out. I just got the impression Murray dealt Pronger because he was banking on Niedermayer playing another few years instead of hanging them up when he did.

Agreed on Perry btw - if it's obvious he's not signing he needs to be traded.

bumperkisser 02-05-2013 07:15 PM

i dont think keeping gardiner would've allowed us to keep schultz, he wanted to play in a big hockey market and he got it.

its just bad asset management with beach.. ******* lol, why did murray ever think he was not WORTH the contract :(

not ot mention gardiner would be nice ot have right now with fowler out

Hockey Duckie 02-05-2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bumperkisser (Post 59118383)
i dont think keeping gardiner would've allowed us to keep schultz, he wanted to play in a big hockey market and he got it.

its just bad asset management with beach.. ******* lol, why did murray ever think he was not WORTH the contract :(

not ot mention gardiner would be nice ot have right now with fowler out

Gardiner was expendable due to Schultz. Unfortunately, Schultz has found a way out of Anaheim.

OCSportsfan 02-05-2013 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramenbot (Post 59102709)
I still think it's ridiculous that Beauchemin had to be traded for to get him back when he never wanted to leave the team in the first place.

At the time, you have to make a decision and I am sure he probably regrets it, but I remember at the time thinking that might have been an overpayment to keep him.

We had Neds, Boynton, Whitney, Wiz, Eminger, brookbank that year. We picked up Vis for Whitney during the year. Yes I am sure Beauch would have been better than most.

Unfortunately, I thought it was an overpayment to send Lupul and Gardiner (even though he was a prospect) to get him back.

Eddie Shack 02-06-2013 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramenbot (Post 59102709)
I still think it's ridiculous that Beauchemin had to be traded for to get him back when he never wanted to leave the team in the first place.

I think people forget Beauch was just coming back from a serious knee surgery. There were questions on just how good he would be after the surgery. He only came back for a few playoff games before a decision had to be made. He played well in them but still, it would have been a risk signing him to a long term deal.

Of course in hindsight we should have just signed him. :nod:

Eddie Shack 02-06-2013 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCSportsfan (Post 59146055)

Unfortunately, I thought it was an overpayment to send Lupul and Gardiner (even though he was a prospect) to get him back.

Lupul was a salary dump we insisted upon in order to give Burke Gardiner. Nobody expected him to have a career year.

Hockey Duckie 02-06-2013 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Shack (Post 59148695)
Lupul was a salary dump we insisted upon in order to give Burke Gardiner. Nobody expected him to have a career year.

Lupul was also in RC's dog house, wasn't being used correctly, and may have had issue's still with his back. At the time, it seemed like a fair trade. A non-scoring, scoring forward and a prospect defenseman for an established defenseman with no issue with his previous knee injury.

I don't know why, but I think the Ducks' went after Schultz to come out early from Wisconsin. He didn't and that kind of threw a wrench into the Ducks' plans. I truly believe Schultz didn't want to be a Duck that far back. Could not having Schultz have played into re-acquiring Beauch? Who knows? But I'm happy to have Beauch back. It was a win-win for both teams, more so for the Leafs.

Eddie Shack 02-06-2013 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey Duckie (Post 59167723)
Lupul was also in RC's dog house, wasn't being used correctly, and may have had issue's still with his back. At the time, it seemed like a fair trade. A non-scoring, scoring forward and a prospect defenseman for an established defenseman with no issue with his previous knee injury.

I don't know why, but I think the Ducks' went after Schultz to come out early from Wisconsin. He didn't and that kind of threw a wrench into the Ducks' plans. I truly believe Schultz didn't want to be a Duck that far back. Could not having Schultz have played into re-acquiring Beauch? Who knows? But I'm happy to have Beauch back. It was a win-win for both teams, more so for the Leafs.

Supposedly Burke wanted Schultz and we told told him no, you can have Gardiner. Ouch!

DuckshaveaRPG 02-06-2013 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Shack (Post 59169605)
Supposedly Burke wanted Schultz and we told told him no, you can have Gardiner. Ouch!

at the time Schultz was the number 1 D prospect in our system and as we all know he was not exactly screaming about how much he wanted out of Anaheim

mighty all the way 02-06-2013 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuckshaveaRPG (Post 59175635)
at the time Schultz was the number 1 D prospect in our system and as we all know he was not exactly screaming about how much he wanted out of Anaheim

Many fans considered Gardiner better at that time. It wasnt until Schultz started to create drama people put him ahead of Gardiner.


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