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two out of three* 03-13-2005 07:23 PM

Suspension Debate
 
Ok.. today in my game (it was a playoff game) it was the last game of a round robin to see who went to the semi finals. We were leading 2-1 at the end of a game, and it was near the end of the game. A guy took a run at me, and I knocked him down but not hard at all it was an easy shoved, and he only went to one knee. As he's skating away he hacks my shin pad with his stick, holds my stick, and baseball swings at my head hitting me. It hurt.. But I skated after him, and as I look over one of their guys takes a run at one of my teammates. The kid on the other team who ran my teammate was on one knee.

I wasn't going to catch the guy who hit me with his stick, so I drilled the kid who was on one knee against the boards, unfortunately right after the horn sounded to end the game. It was like a second or two after the horn sounded. It wasn't from behind, but it was stupid of me to do I know. It took the kid like 10 seconds to get up, but he got up. The hit wasn't all that hard, but it got him pretty good. The original call was a 30 day suspension, but the last I heard was a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. My question to the refs one these boards are, what are your feelings, and what penalty should I receive? Also, earlier that game one of my teammates hit a kid from behind, and only got a 5 minute major, and the hit was way harder than the one I had after the game. Thanks.

Schlep Rock 03-13-2005 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
Ok.. today in my game (it was a playoff game) it was the last game of a round robin to see who went to the semi finals. We were leading 2-1 at the end of a game, and it was near the end of the game. A guy took a run at me, and I knocked him down but not hard at all it was an easy shoved, and he only went to one knee. As he's skating away he hacks my shin pad with his stick, holds my stick, and baseball swings at my head hitting me. It hurt.. But I skated after him, and as I look over one of their guys takes a run at one of my teammates. The kid on the other team who ran my teammate was on one knee.

I wasn't going to catch the guy who hit me with his stick, so I drilled the kid who was on one knee against the boards, unfortunately right after the horn sounded to end the game. It was like a second or two after the horn sounded. It wasn't from behind, but it was stupid of me to do I know. It took the kid like 10 seconds to get up, but he got up. The hit wasn't all that hard, but it got him pretty good. The original call was a 30 day suspension, but the last I heard was a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. My question to the refs one these boards are, what are your feelings, and what penalty should I receive? Also, earlier that game one of my teammates hit a kid from behind, and only got a 5 minute major, and the hit was way harder than the one I had after the game. Thanks.

I don't really follow this whole story but since when do the ref's determine the suspensions?

BCCHL inactive 03-13-2005 09:24 PM

There is no penalty in any rulebook where a referee can assess a suspension. All referees do is call the penalties and write any reports required. Whatever league/association that governs the game will decide on a suspension based on the referee's report.

In simple terms, the refs have nothing to do with how long you might have to sit out.

two out of three* 03-14-2005 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
There is no penalty in any rulebook where a referee can assess a suspension. All referees do is call the penalties and write any reports required. Whatever league/association that governs the game will decide on a suspension based on the referee's report.

In simple terms, the refs have nothing to do with how long you might have to sit out.

Thats true, I guess the ref just suggests it in the report.. I know you didn't see it, but what would you have given me?

BCCHL inactive 03-14-2005 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
Thats true, I guess the ref just suggests it in the report.. I know you didn't see it, but what would you have given me?

Referees cannot suggest suspensions in reports. If he does, the league will disregard it (or remove it from the report) and make the decision based on the written description of the incident and any video, shall it be available.

Based on your description, if you hit a guy after the buzzer when he is already on his knees at the boards, and he's not even the guy who got you, I'm thinking intent to injure. It may not be your intention, but as a referee, my thinking would be that you just got nailed with a stick to the head and you're obviously looking to lay a licking on somebody. If you get the guy who got you, I might take it a little easy with the penalties as long as you don't go overboard in your retaliation. However, going after somebody else, who is already in a semi-defenseless position, erases any retaliation consideration in my mind, and I'd be more likely to throw the book at you too.

Either way, being a major incident, I would consult with my linesmen to get their opinions before making my final call.

All I can say for sure, is that I would call at least a major (I know in USA Hockey a Game Misconduct is not automatic with majors), with possibilities of a Match Penalty (intent to injure) and/or a Gross Misconduct (making a travesty of the game).

WhoozYerrDaddy 03-14-2005 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
There is no penalty in any rulebook where a referee can assess a suspension.

Not completely true. In the USA Hockey book, Rule 404(d) automatically SUSPENDS the coach for one game if his team accumulates fifteen penalties in one game. The coach is not removed from the bench after the fifteenth penalty. He is allowed to finish the game and he serves his suspension at the next scheduled game of that team at that time. It is NOT a Game Misconduct against the coach. GMs against coaches are reserved for 'misconduct' on the bench.

However, the league (not the refs)may increase the suspension at their discretion under the 'Supplementary Discipline' rule.

Your point is taken about suspending players, though. Officials do not suspend players, leagues or associations do.

Also, effective with the 2003-04 USA Hockey rulebook, all references to gross misconducts have been removed. We no longer have that option.

Daddy

Sixty Six 03-14-2005 12:30 PM

I know when i ref that anytime i give a guy a game misconduct it also comes with a once game suspension however if you feel the that someone deserves to be thrown out of the game and not suspended you give him a game ejection. I believe a match penalty is an automatic 2 or 3 game suspension, but i don't remmber, this does allow a ref to somewhat give a suspension out imo what you did was wrong and i might have give you match but 30 days is too long imo

usmhuskies 03-14-2005 04:09 PM

Game misconduct with a match penalty(intent to injure) have fun sitting out the next game... :)

BCCHL inactive 03-14-2005 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoozYerrDaddy
Your point is taken about suspending players, though. Officials do not suspend players, leagues or associations do.

That was my point. We have a few penalties in the Hockey Canada rulebook that automatically suspend players and coaches, but it's not up to the on-ice officials to enforce...and referees certainly cannot assess a suspension.


Quote:

Originally Posted by usmhuskies
Game misconduct with a match penalty(intent to injure) have fun sitting out the next game... :)

Why would you call both a Match and a Game Misconduct? A Match kicks you out of the game as it is.

FLYLine27 03-14-2005 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
Ok.. today in my game (it was a playoff game) it was the last game of a round robin to see who went to the semi finals. We were leading 2-1 at the end of a game, and it was near the end of the game. A guy took a run at me, and I knocked him down but not hard at all it was an easy shoved, and he only went to one knee. As he's skating away he hacks my shin pad with his stick, holds my stick, and baseball swings at my head hitting me. It hurt.. But I skated after him, and as I look over one of their guys takes a run at one of my teammates. The kid on the other team who ran my teammate was on one knee.

I wasn't going to catch the guy who hit me with his stick, so I drilled the kid who was on one knee against the boards, unfortunately right after the horn sounded to end the game. It was like a second or two after the horn sounded. It wasn't from behind, but it was stupid of me to do I know. It took the kid like 10 seconds to get up, but he got up. The hit wasn't all that hard, but it got him pretty good. The original call was a 30 day suspension, but the last I heard was a 5 minute major and a game misconduct. My question to the refs one these boards are, what are your feelings, and what penalty should I receive? Also, earlier that game one of my teammates hit a kid from behind, and only got a 5 minute major, and the hit was way harder than the one I had after the game. Thanks.

You'll get the automatic 1 game suspension. Thats it. This is USA rules right?

usmhuskies 03-14-2005 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
That was my point. We have a few penalties in the Hockey Canada rulebook that automatically suspend players and coaches, but it's not up to the on-ice officials to enforce...and referees certainly cannot assess a suspension.




Why would you call both a Match and a Game Misconduct? A Match kicks you out of the game as it is.


I kind of typed that out wrong : I meant a match peanlty which would lead to a game misconduct...

two out of three* 03-14-2005 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
You'll get the automatic 1 game suspension. Thats it. This is USA rules right?

Yeah, USA rules..

I did get the 5 minute major. It was at the end of the 3rd, so the game was over.

two out of three* 03-14-2005 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmhuskies
Game misconduct with a match penalty(intent to injure) have fun sitting out the next game... :)

Well.. yeah it was pretty stupid. I should've controlled myself, but it was one of those heat of the moment things. I dont have a temper, and i dont play cheap, but w/e lesson learned. I shoudl've known they were going to try and do that to me because their season was over.

FLYLine27 03-15-2005 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
Yeah, USA rules..

I did get the 5 minute major. It was at the end of the 3rd, so the game was over.

Well its the Game Misconduct that got you the suspension.

KariyaIsGod* 03-15-2005 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
Well.. yeah it was pretty stupid. I should've controlled myself, but it was one of those heat of the moment things. I dont have a temper, and i dont play cheap, but w/e lesson learned. I shoudl've known they were going to try and do that to me because their season was over.

Just learn to take these things to the parking lot...

bleedgreen 03-15-2005 01:00 PM

a match penalty means you are automatically suspended - indefinitely - until your governing body has an official meeting about the incident, i believe you are allowed to at least speak your case at the meeting (or maybe allowed to present a written plea). if a month goes by without a meeting then the month serves as your suspension and you can come back. this may be what your league automatically does in the case of a match penalty - gives you a month and doesnt do anything else.

in the case of a match, a 5 minute major must be served as well (by a teamate of course), but obviously since it was after the game that didnt apply here.

this is all straight out of usa hockeys rule book. i dont know that this is what you got, but it lines up with the suspension time. this is the only way a ref controls the suspension. a five and a game gets you an extra game, a match gets you a month more or less based on the meeting.

would i have given you a match? i dont know, matches are for the worst of all situations...in my book anyway. bertuzzi, mcsorley type of stuff. i didnt see it, but one thing i know is that the way a person involved remembers it and the way a ref or anyone unbiased does are usually polar opposites, no offense. you deserve a suspension if you carried on and laid someone out after the game. during the game, if its a big enough illegal hit, you would get the 5 and a game. after the the game is considered much more serious though, if it appeared (at the time of the hit, not later) the player was injured and you showed intent to injure (in the refs opinion) - you could geta match. the way you make it sound it doesnt sound that bad, but your tone sounds eerily familar to about every person ive ever tossed from a game for a rough/board/charge/fight etc..etc..

dont know if this helps at all. good luck.

usmhuskies 03-15-2005 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
Well.. yeah it was pretty stupid. I should've controlled myself, but it was one of those heat of the moment things. I dont have a temper, and i dont play cheap, but w/e lesson learned. I shoudl've known they were going to try and do that to me because their season was over.

Don't beat youself up about: just learn a lesson...I WAS a dirty player when I was your age (117 PIMS in 20 Games)...It's tough to be on the ice in that situation(other team has nothing to lose by running you)...

BCCHL inactive 03-15-2005 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmhuskies
I kind of typed that out wrong : I meant a match peanlty which would lead to a game misconduct...

Where does the Game Misconduct come from? With a Match Penalty, the player is out of the game with just that.

You don't assess a Match and a Game, you assess a Match.

FLYLine27 03-15-2005 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usmhuskies
I kind of typed that out wrong : I meant a match peanlty which would lead to a game misconduct...

What you mean...A match penalty would lead to a being ejected from the game..which would be the same consequence as a game misconduct...but of course a Match is also a major penalty and possibly more serious consequences in the future.

two out of three* 03-15-2005 10:08 PM

Just to clarify.. I dont have a suspension yet, but i believe the league is debating whether to hand me the game misconduct. (which would be the semi-final game.)

FLYLine27 03-15-2005 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiesRLikeWins4Us
Just to clarify.. I dont have a suspension yet, but i believe the league is debating whether to hand me the game misconduct. (which would be the semi-final game.)

Hmm..dont understand that...when you received the Game Misconduct that follows an automatic 1 game suspension.

BCCHL inactive 03-15-2005 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
What you mean...A match penalty would lead to a being ejected from the game..which would be the same consequence as a game misconduct...but of course a Match is also a major penalty and possibly more serious consequences in the future.

I'm not familiar with USA Hockey definitions, but in Canada, Match penalties are in a class of their own. They put 5:00 on the board, just as a Major Penalty does.


Quote:

Originally Posted by FLYLine4LIFE
Hmm..dont understand that...when you received the Game Misconduct that follows an automatic 1 game suspension.

What he is saying, is that the league is deciding whether or not he will have the Game Misconduct on his record. Leagues can recind penalties if they have just cause. If the referee called one, however, I think it should stand. A league would lose my respect if the only explanation they had was "difference of opinion", of which a number of politically correct explanations can translate into.

two out of three* 03-16-2005 02:27 AM

Ok.. I got the game misconduct w/ the 5 minute major penalty. I think its the right call. Although a lot of people who saw the game (which I think attendance was like 150-175 people) came up to me, and said I don't deserve anything. But I hit a kid after the game was over so something obviously needs to be handed out. I was hoping along the lines of a 10 minute misconduct. (of course because it wouldn't matter right?)

FLYLine27 03-16-2005 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Van
I'm not familiar with USA Hockey definitions, but in Canada, Match penalties are in a class of their own. They put 5:00 on the board, just as a Major Penalty does.

I was going to put 5 min down instead of Major..but Mite and Squirt is only 4 minutes for a major...which is why i wrote Major instead of 5 minutes.



Quote:

What he is saying, is that the league is deciding whether or not he will have the Game Misconduct on his record. Leagues can recind penalties if they have just cause. If the referee called one, however, I think it should stand. A league would lose my respect if the only explanation they had was "difference of opinion", of which a number of politically correct explanations can translate into.
I agree..if the League took away a Game Misconduct that the referee had put down on the score sheet then it would be a joke...and look like there playing favorites...which could lead to not so good consequences toward the league if someone found out.

Douggy 03-16-2005 11:29 AM

After reading this thread and the other officiating thread, I have to say the USA has some VERY inconsistant rules, or atleast they way they are being described seems inconsistant. :)


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