HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3)
-   -   minnesota / ottawa proposal (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=134281)

andora 03-13-2005 10:07 PM

minnesota / ottawa proposal
 
to ottawa - andrew brunette and willie mitchell
to minnesota - brian pothier, todd white, and alexei kaigorodov

imo if the season goes next year, and if hasek is retained, ottawa imo must go for it.. brunette solves a huge hole and need, and mitchell just adds that much more to the bottom pairing in ottawa...

pothier imo could benefit under lemaire, while white could be utilized a la wes walz in that type of role.. kaigorodov is a nice little piece, but he's likely the type of name that would give minny incentive to move two solid pieces..

any thoughts... ?

Twist and Shout 03-13-2005 10:15 PM

Fairly good deal for both sides. Mitchell would be AMAZING with Phillips or Redden in Ottawa.

wedge 03-13-2005 10:25 PM

I'm not sure. Is Brunette an improvement over White? I do like Mitchell, but the Sens seems to be very high on Meszaros and he could make the team next year.

andora 03-13-2005 10:28 PM

imo mez would still be too raw to insert into a stanley cup driving defense corps..

brunette would replace white's roster spot i suppose, but brunette imo is the exact LW the sens would benefit from greatly...

sure you lose white down the middle, but with the plethora of free agents out there, ottawa could go all out and sign a vet to a one year deal, like a nieuwendyk type, or someone of that ilk..

ottawa needs to go for it imo.. if they're retaining hasek next year

Alfie#11 03-13-2005 10:43 PM

Can Mitchell play the right side? He shoots left and the Sens need a defenceman who plays the right side.

That's the problem with losing Pothier. He's the only righty we have.

Mitchell would be a great addition to the Sens and I would love to have him on the team.

Brunette, OTOH, is pure expansion fodder. He has no place on a good team. He's too slow and non-physical.

A more sensible proposal would be for just Mitchell.

andora 03-13-2005 10:45 PM

wow.. i believe you're WAY off on brunette, he deserves much more respect imo

Zoo 03-13-2005 10:46 PM

I like it, helps both teams.

Brunette would be a perfect fit on the sens. And adding Mitchell into that defensive corps would only do wonders for him. And Kaigorodov I feel is the main piece coming in for the wild.... he's gonna be a good one down the road.

Schaefer - Spezza - Hossa
Brunette - Smolinski - Alfredsson
Vermette - Fisher - Havlat
Varada - Kelly - Neil

Redden - Mitchell
Chara - Phillips
Volchenkov - De Vries

Hasek
Prusek

And then there's always UFA... ;)

Alfie#11 03-13-2005 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
wow.. i believe you're WAY off on brunette, he deserves much more respect imo

He couldn't crack the Caps full time and he's since done a tour of the recent expansion teams.

He was let go by the Thrashers after being one of their leading scorers. There's a reason for that.

Brunette has enough skill to be serviceable in a scoring role if a team has nothing better. That's about it with him, IMO.

The Fuhr* 03-13-2005 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
to ottawa - andrew brunette and willie mitchell
to minnesota - brian pothier, todd white, and alexei kaigorodov

imo if the season goes next year, and if hasek is retained, ottawa imo must go for it.. brunette solves a huge hole and need, and mitchell just adds that much more to the bottom pairing in ottawa...

pothier imo could benefit under lemaire, while white could be utilized a la wes walz in that type of role.. kaigorodov is a nice little piece, but he's likely the type of name that would give minny incentive to move two solid pieces..

any thoughts... ?


There is no way the Sens trade Kaigorodov in that deal until they can see what he can do in North America. The kid is a very talented player and some have compred him to Brendan Morrison. As for Mitchelle comming to Ottawa the sens dont need him. He wont crack the top 4 of Redden,Chara,Phillips and Devries. Plus he would take away ice time from the develepment of Volchenkov and Mezaros. So from the Sens perspective the deal is a no go.

andora 03-13-2005 11:01 PM

well he was a kid back in 95-97, and couldn't really crack those veteran layden playoff teams (that made the cup run one year) because they had pro depth..

and your 2nd to last sentence, i think that actually helps make my point that he'd do well in ottawa. ottawa needs a LW with size and brunette's type of game.. i mean he's put up 50/59/69/46/49 pts in the last five years on average teams.. i think that's pretty good.. he would be playing with much better players in ottawa and could benefit greatly, he also had a great playoff with minny two years ago..

agree to disagree i guess, i just think he'd work awesome in ottawa, and is cheap enough to acquire (ottawa can't snag a morrow/smyth/doan etc.. without giving up another core piece)

andora 03-13-2005 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuhr86
There is no way the Sens trade Kaigorodov in that deal until they can see what he can do in North America. The kid is a very talented player and some have compred him to Brendan Morrison. As for Mitchelle comming to Ottawa the sens dont need him. He wont crack the top 4 of Redden,Chara,Phillips and Devries. Plus he would take away ice time from the develepment of Volchenkov and Mezaros. So from the Sens perspective the deal is a no go.

how will he take ice away from volchenkov, and as i stated, i believe mez is too raw for a cup running team and would be best for another yr of junior or ahl in binghampton..

The Fuhr* 03-13-2005 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
how will he take ice away from volchenkov, and as i stated, i believe mez is too raw for a cup running team and would be best for another yr of junior or ahl in binghampton..


Well Muckler doesn't think so. He stated at the Sens press confrence at the cancelation of the season that he plans to have Mezaros signed to a contract for the start of the next season and for him to be playing in Ottawa, he also mentioned he would like to have the same done for Kaigorodov and Eaves.

andora 03-13-2005 11:17 PM

ok, well then make it a deadline deal... i don't think it's optimistic to make a run for a cup with that much youth in the lineup.. add those three to spezza inheriting a huge block on his shoulder, plus vermette...

RoyIsALegend* 03-13-2005 11:58 PM

I don't see Minnesota making this move.

Jacques Lemaire has molded Willie Mitchell into his ideal, shutdown defenseman and their already thin defense corps would take a big hit in this trade.

Pretty close, though.

andora 03-14-2005 12:01 AM

help me out here RIAL, i think it's fair to assume that kaigorodov in your opinion isn't enough of an incentive to get lemaire to move mitchell, what young player from ottawa do you feel would give that incentive.. ?

i would imagine anyone outside of vermette/spezza/mezsaros could be involved in this deal...

i thought of a couple other names, such as patrick eaves, jan platil, and brandon bochenski.. any thoughts ?

RoyIsALegend* 03-14-2005 12:14 AM

I'd say you just drop the entire Andrew Brunette idea, and if it's only Mitchell, then Minnesota _HAS_ to get back one of Vermette or Meszaros.

MS 03-14-2005 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
to ottawa - andrew brunette and willie mitchell
to minnesota - brian pothier, todd white, and alexei kaigorodov

imo if the season goes next year, and if hasek is retained, ottawa imo must go for it.. brunette solves a huge hole and need, and mitchell just adds that much more to the bottom pairing in ottawa...

pothier imo could benefit under lemaire, while white could be utilized a la wes walz in that type of role.. kaigorodov is a nice little piece, but he's likely the type of name that would give minny incentive to move two solid pieces..

any thoughts... ?

Mitchell is by far the best asset in the deal and I don't see anything from Ottawa to compensate for his inclusion.

Brunette I like a bit more than White, but not much and White is a bit younger so call that part of the deal even.

Kaigorodov is having a nice year but these smallish Euro guys putting up nice numbers are always a total roll of the dice. Some hit, a lot miss. If I'm Minnesota, there's no way in hell I move a still-young top-2 physical defender like Mitchell for a question mark. In fact, there's no way I'd move Mitchell period unless someone seriously overpaid for him. He was absolutely huge in the playoffs two years ago, guys of that ilk are incredibly tough to find, and he's still several years away from UFA.

The Fuhr* 03-14-2005 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
I'd say you just drop the entire Andrew Brunette idea, and if it's only Mitchell, then Minnesota _HAS_ to get back one of Vermette or Meszaros.


There is no way Mitchelle is worth vermette or Meszaros to the Senators. The Sens just don't need another d-man that bad. Vermette is going to be a Simon Gange type player who will score 30 goals for the sens 2-3 yeras from now. He is also plays LW a position the Sens are always looking to fill. Not to mention the Kid is already an exceptional Penatly killer. As for Mezaros he was one of the steals of the 2004 Draft. He will develop into an Ohlund type player but a bit more physical, The Kid also shoots right and thats one thing the sens need on there Defence. Meszaros is going to be groomed to be Reddens Defense partner. So as you can see there is no need for Mitchelle in Ottawa

RoyIsALegend* 03-14-2005 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuhr86
There is no way Mitchelle is worth vermette or Meszaros to the Senators. The Sens just don't need another d-man that bad. Vermette is going to be a Simon Gange type player who will score 30 goals for the sens 2-3 yeras from now. He is also plays LW a position the Sens are always looking to fill. Not to mention the Kid is already an exceptional Penatly killer. As for Mezaros he was one of the steals of the 2004 Draft. He will develop into an Ohlund type player but a bit more physical, The Kid also shoots right and thats one thing the sens need on there Defence. Meszaros is going to be groomed to be Reddens Defense partner. So as you can see there is no need for Mitchelle in Ottawa

Those are some pretty big guarantees.

Legionnaire 03-14-2005 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoyIsALegend
Those are some pretty big guarantees.


In the year twoooo-thousand. In the year twooooo-thousand.

Cat Called Bobcat 03-14-2005 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuhr86
There is no way Mitchelle is worth vermette or Meszaros to the Senators. The Sens just don't need another d-man that bad. Vermette is going to be a Simon Gange type player who will score 30 goals for the sens 2-3 yeras from now. He is also plays LW a position the Sens are always looking to fill. Not to mention the Kid is already an exceptional Penatly killer. As for Mezaros he was one of the steals of the 2004 Draft. He will develop into an Ohlund type player but a bit more physical, The Kid also shoots right and thats one thing the sens need on there Defence. Meszaros is going to be groomed to be Reddens Defense partner. So as you can see there is no need for Mitchelle in Ottawa

Alfie, is that you? ;)

LadyByngJeanRatelle 03-14-2005 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andora
to ottawa - andrew brunette and willie mitchell
to minnesota - brian pothier, todd white, and alexei kaigorodov

imo if the season goes next year, and if hasek is retained, ottawa imo must go for it.. brunette solves a huge hole and need, and mitchell just adds that much more to the bottom pairing in ottawa...

pothier imo could benefit under lemaire, while white could be utilized a la wes walz in that type of role.. kaigorodov is a nice little piece, but he's likely the type of name that would give minny incentive to move two solid pieces..

any thoughts... ?


Absolutely no way Minnesota does this deal. I think you're undervaluing Mitchell alot. I wouldn't do Mitchell for White, Pothier and Kaig's alone.

White and Pothier don't get you back a top2 pairing, young, relatively inexpensive D man. Kaig's is a nice prospect but not enough to make the deal work. Adding in Brunnette just makes it worse.

Chara, Redden, Phillips and Mitchell would be the best top 4 Dmen in the league for the next 6-8 years.

(Who said in this thread DeVries > Mitchell??? :lol: :lol: :lol: )

If Ottawa wants Mitchell, they would have to include Vermette or Meszaros which won't happen so......no deal.

andora 03-14-2005 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuhr86
The Kid also shoots right and thats one thing the sens need on there Defence.

well they still need that, mez shoots left

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyByngJeanRatelle
Absolutely no way Minnesota does this deal. I think you're undervaluing Mitchell alot. I wouldn't do Mitchell for White, Pothier and Kaig's alone.

White and Pothier don't get you back a top2 pairing, young, relatively inexpensive D man. Kaig's is a nice prospect but not enough to make the deal work. Adding in Brunnette just makes it worse.

Chara, Redden, Phillips and Mitchell would be the best top 4 Dmen in the league for the next 6-8 years.

(Who said in this thread DeVries > Mitchell??? :lol: :lol: :lol: )

If Ottawa wants Mitchell, they would have to include Vermette or Meszaros which won't happen so......no deal.

well in honesty, i tried to be ultra conservative in making this, and i agree on mitchell.. i wasn't what type of response i was going to get

NFITO 03-14-2005 12:30 PM

I think that Ottawa (and other teams for that matter) are just better off waiting for the free agent market in the new season if the need if finding a top 6 experienced left winger.

White for Brunette is probably the most even deal... I dont' think the Sens need Mitchell and certainly not for the price that Minny would need back to move him. He's much more valuable to Minny then he would be for Ottawa, so Ottawa probably wouldn't consider giving up what Minny would need to replace him.

In Ottawa's situation I'd also wait for the free agent market to fill this role if there is need to add to the bottom pairing.

Any contender right now, if the need is experience, this can be addressed through free agency... why would Ottawa give up the necessary pkg for Mitchell, when they could go after Witt, for example as a free agent? if they need a right handed guy, then there is Klee... or for a top 4 role, Aucoin... in their situation it'd be better IMO to add a guy like Klee without giving up anything, then Mitchell for some key future players... for a bottom pairing role, Klee would be a good enough fit for the team, and can be signed on a 1 or 2 yr team, giving Mez more time to develop... by the time that Klee and deVries are done, Volchenkov, Pothier and Mez can take on bigger roles.

while Brunette would be a nice fit there IMO, the value of such players, that are a good chance to hit UFA status under a new CBA, has gotta low.

If the Sens do end up trading for a top 6 left winger, then I'd target someone younger... give up more if necessary, but then you have a long term solution... either that or just hold on to their futures, and wait for the free agent market. Ottawa will likely be an attractive team for new UFAs to go - giving them a chance to compete for the Cup, as well as being a team that should have space under a new cap.

LadyByngJeanRatelle 03-14-2005 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO

then there is Klee... or for a top 4 role, Aucoin... in their situation it'd be better IMO to add a guy like Klee without giving up anything, then Mitchell for some key future players... for a bottom pairing role, Klee would be a good enough fit for the team, and can be signed on a 1 or 2 yr team, giving Mez more time to develop... by the time that Klee and deVries are done, Volchenkov, Pothier and Mez can take on bigger roles.

I don't think Klee is an option unless the Maple Leafs release him from the 2-3 year contract he signed in the summer.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:18 PM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.