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-   -   Jussi Jokinen? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1342981)

RorschachWJK 02-06-2013 08:13 AM

Jussi Jokinen?
 
A Finnish fan here, asking what's up with Jussi Jokinen? It seems like he isn't getting anything done this year. I was expecting more out of him...

normalpsychology 02-06-2013 10:13 AM

He seemed to be declining last year as well. He could just be on the decline unfortunately. His shootouts have been suffering the past 2 years.

That said he hasn't got the best line mates (although he played more in the top 6 last season and his numbers were still lower than previously) and we haven't gotten much of anything from the bottom 6.

Oldracer 02-06-2013 10:18 AM

Jussi is playing 3rd line center and seems to be accepting a more defensive role.
I believe he is doing what the coaches are asking. He has taken a few more penalties then he should, but, he is a good team guy, and not getting to play with
the "super stars" is slowing down point production. (We still still sing his first name
every game) Oh! Say can "Jussi"?

TheBigKahuna 02-06-2013 11:33 AM

Expendable.

And he's playing center, which is really does poorly. Neither he nor Ruutu are worth a darn at the pivot.

Finlandia WOAT 02-06-2013 12:07 PM

He went from playing with Jeff Skinner and Tuomo Ruutu to Chad LaRose and Drayson Bowman.

I'm shocked that he isn't nearly as effective.

If we get a third line center, he'll move to wing and play on the third line with Ruutu, or be slotted up to play with J. Staal and Skinner. His numbers should increase.

Mr America 02-06-2013 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldracer (Post 59158689)
(We still still sing his first name
every game) Oh! Say can "Jussi"?

I've wanted him gone ever since you morons started doing this.

Carolinas Identity 02-06-2013 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr America (Post 59176857)
I've wanted him gone ever since you morons started doing this.

We'll get rid of him at the Twilight's last Glea-Son. Deal?

impeach estaalo 02-06-2013 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan The Parade (Post 59163747)
He went from playing with Jeff Skinner and Tuomo Ruutu to Chad LaRose and Drayson Bowman.

I'm shocked that he isn't nearly as effective.

But Bowman has an elite wrister :sarcasm:

Roboturner913 02-07-2013 12:54 AM

Talk about talent going to waste. He should be playing on the second line, if you think about it his playmaking and slick passing would be a perfect to Skinner and JStaal. But for some reason, it's deemed more important that he center a 3rd line that serves no purpose other than to kill time while the top two lines rest.

(I am much more angry about this than I should be. I guess I just hate to see a good player being wasted).

La Huracanista 02-07-2013 01:14 AM

It's only been 8 games and he's not getting as much time on ice.

tarheelhockey 02-07-2013 07:20 AM

I think it goes a little beyond linemates. He hasn't been a significant threat on an individual level, not in a long time.

If he can grow into a defensive role that's fine, but it really would be nice to have a third true center so that he can move back to wing.

Oan 02-07-2013 06:21 PM

This whole season so far has been kinda a slap into his face: last season (or the previous?) he took a hometown discount deal to help out the team, he could have gotten so much more from UFA-market, and now, in the last offseason the management signs J. Staal and Semin with much bigger bucks, and J. Staal also proceeds to take his place from top 6 (wasn't Jussi centering 2nd line?).

DaveG 02-07-2013 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oan (Post 59247423)
This whole season so far has been kinda a slap into his face: last season (or the previous?) he took a hometown discount deal to help out the team, he could have gotten so much more from UFA-market, and now, in the last offseason the management signs J. Staal and Semin with much bigger bucks, and J. Staal also proceeds to take his place from top 6 (wasn't Jussi centering 2nd line?).

Only out of necessity. IF (huge if) the organization were to actually go out and sign/trade for an actual #3 center I could very easily see Jussi on the wing for the Semin-Staal line. He deserves a top 6 role until proven otherwise, but the fact that he's the only guy even capable of playing a #3 center role on the team right now means he won't get the opportunity until something happens.

NorthStar4Canes 02-08-2013 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboturner913 (Post 59209469)
Talk about talent going to waste. He should be playing on the second line, if you think about it his playmaking and slick passing would be a perfect to Skinner and JStaal. But for some reason, it's deemed more important that he center a 3rd line that serves no purpose other than to kill time while the top two lines rest.

(I am much more angry about this than I should be. I guess I just hate to see a good player being wasted).

In the course of the last 2 seasons while playing in the Top 6 with the likes of Skinner and Ruutu Jussi went from an already-mediocre 11g/23a (70gp) even strength to even-worse 7g/19a (79gp) last year. He of the "slick passing and playmaking" was also an integral part of the craptastic PP units that went 3-for-a-thousand in that season's march to miss the playoffs.

I'm more angry about a player like that making $3 mill a year..hate to see all that good money wasted.

Roboturner913 02-08-2013 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthStar4Canes (Post 59287751)
In the course of the last 2 seasons while playing in the Top 6 with the likes of Skinner and Ruutu Jussi went from an already-mediocre 11g/23a (70gp) even strength to even-worse 7g/19a (79gp) last year. He of the "slick passing and playmaking" was also an integral part of the craptastic PP units that went 3-for-a-thousand in that season's march to miss the playoffs.

I'm more angry about a player like that making $3 mill a year..hate to see all that good money wasted.

You know as well as I do that blaming him for the "craptastic PP units" is a completely ridiculous notion.

And while I would agree his play has fallen off a bit offensively, he's still about a 50 point player each of the last two seasons. Now tell me something, do you see anybody else like that on the roster outside the top 4? Because I don't even see any 30 point guys, much less 50.

NorthStar4Canes 02-08-2013 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roboturner913 (Post 59290155)
You know as well as I do that blaming him for the "craptastic PP units" is a completely ridiculous notion.

And while I would agree his play has fallen off a bit offensively, he's still about a 50 point player each of the last two seasons. Now tell me something, do you see anybody else like that on the roster outside the top 4? Because I don't even see any 30 point guys, much less 50.

At even strength, playing in the top 6, he's been a 26pt and 33pt guy. He generates almost nothing, and his soft style doesnt fit well with a forecheck system under Muller. Your argument is he is a top 6 shoo-in as if its a given, but when if the subject is "lines" the given means at even strength playing the system. Jussi is anything but, and nothing he's done the last 2 season says otherwise. Still waiting for you to show something that does.

Oan 02-08-2013 04:33 AM

So was his 30g season all just a fluke? Statistical anomality?

Anton Skinner 02-08-2013 05:38 AM

sadly, watching Jussi out there on the 3rd line, he doesnt look any different than any other bottom 6 skaters, except for Westgarth (obviously) and on the other end of the scale, Bowman. I havent seen Jussi take but maybe 10 decent shots, he always seems scared and not confident with the puck. just doesnt look like the Jussi we knew in 09 anymore. I agree that POINTS probably arent coming because of linemates, to an extent, because if you play with guys who can score, you will eventually get points. But points directly because of him i dont see happening with pretty much anyone else either, because it just seems like when he gets the puck, the play ends up going the other way, or at least going completely stagnant.

point is, he just doesnt seem to have it any more. maybe a top 6 winger role would help him. who knows. if he gets the chance, we'll see. maybe its just time he moved on. Dalpe was very close to making the team but there were too many in that role already on the team so there was no spot for him. Jussi goes and we have a cheap, nearly capable replacement. Thats my opinion anyways.

Roboturner913 02-08-2013 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthStar4Canes (Post 59290879)
At even strength, playing in the top 6, he's been a 26pt and 33pt guy. He generates almost nothing, and his soft style doesnt fit well with a forecheck system under Muller. Your argument is he is a top 6 shoo-in as if its a given, but when if the subject is "lines" the given means at even strength playing the system. Jussi is anything but, and nothing he's done the last 2 season says otherwise. Still waiting for you to show something that does.

See any other "26 and 33 point guys" at even strength? I don't. Do you?

Are we talking about who is the best guy to play the wing here, or some hypothetical situation where you want to jettison the guy who's probably making too much money for his production (a statement which I would totally agree with, but which also really has no bearing on the former question).

Honest question. And let's drop the condescension please.

Roboturner913 02-08-2013 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oan (Post 59291041)
So was his 30g season all just a fluke? Statistical anomality?

Probably. Honestly, a reasonable expectation would be something like 15 goals and 40-45 points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton Skinner (Post 59291431)
sadly, watching Jussi out there on the 3rd line, he doesnt look any different than any other bottom 6 skaters, except for Westgarth (obviously) and on the other end of the scale, Bowman. I havent seen Jussi take but maybe 10 decent shots, he always seems scared and not confident with the puck. just doesnt look like the Jussi we knew in 09 anymore. I agree that POINTS probably arent coming because of linemates, to an extent, because if you play with guys who can score, you will eventually get points. But points directly because of him i dont see happening with pretty much anyone else either, because it just seems like when he gets the puck, the play ends up going the other way, or at least going completely stagnant.

point is, he just doesnt seem to have it any more. maybe a top 6 winger role would help him. who knows. if he gets the chance, we'll see. maybe its just time he moved on. Dalpe was very close to making the team but there were too many in that role already on the team so there was no spot for him. Jussi goes and we have a cheap, nearly capable replacement. Thats my opinion anyways.

The way I see it, Jokinen is a complimentary player. He's obviously not an Eric Staal who can just put up points and offense all by himself. Nothing wrong with guys like that, but they have to be put in a good position to succeed to make use of their talent. Otherwise, like I said before, you might as well trade him and get what you can.

Boom Boom Anton 02-08-2013 09:01 AM

ES points in last 3 seasons for Carolina forwards is below. If I did the math right, what's interesting is the consistency of Staal and LaRose over this time regardless of games played.

Staal: 47-->47-->47
LaRose: 28-->28-->25

2011-12:
Staal: 47
Skinner: 31 (in 64 games)
Tlusty: 31
Ruutu: 30
Sutter: 29
Jokinen: 28
LaRose: 25

2010-2011
Staal: 47
Skinner: 45
Cole: 44
Ruutu: 41
Jokinen: 34
LaRose: 28
Sutter: 26

2009-2010
Staal: 47
Jokinen: 41
Whitney: 39
Cullen: 31
Sutter: 30
LaRose: 28
Ruutu: 23

Blueline Bomber 02-08-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oan (Post 59291041)
So was his 30g season all just a fluke? Statistical anomality?

Yep. IIRC, that was the year that the "Pitkanen to Jussi" pass came into existance. Pitkanen would catch Jokinen streaking up the middle of the ice, he'd split the defense, and beat the goaltender 1-on-1.

This is shown even further when you check that his shooting percentage was almost 19% that year, well above his career average and the league average in general.

TheBigKahuna 02-08-2013 10:37 AM

Quite simply, in my opinion, the Canes will be forced to try their hardest to unload Jokinen and his $3m salary, and replace him with Welsh, Nash, or anyone who can actually play center. I honestly expect Jokinen to be dealt at the deadline for whatever Rutherford can get.

DaveG 02-08-2013 10:55 AM

I don't think we HAVE to unload him. He's a UFA after the 2013-14 season. Now the question is if it's the prudent move to be looking to do so next season or this season (IMO wouldn't be smart this season if we're making a push). As much as I like Brent and Nash, they're not the skillset we need to be a #3 guy, they're solid #4 types. If they feel that Rask is ready or that Dalpe can play center in the league then they make make a move. Otherwise, they'll frustratingly stand pat with Juice as the #3 center until he reaches UFA status, with us getting absolutely nothing in exchange for a guy we're most likely not going to re-sign if his production doesn't get back to pre-2012 levels.

Yes We Cam 02-08-2013 12:32 PM

Interesting stats that BBA posted. These are ES/SH point totals over the past 3 years:

Larose: 28-->28-->25
Ruutu: 23-->41-->30
Sutter: 30-->26-->29

I included Sutter because his numbers are also consistent, and to show that JR has no problem getting rid of home grown talent. He does, rather, try to justify his trades ie Ladd, Johnson for Ruutu and Gleason and milk it until they've run their course, hence handing them NTCs and NMCs.

Edit: Welp, wrong thread. Mods, please move this post to the Resign Semin thread.


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